Ecolabelling

[RARECLOWNSNJ]

Sustainability

My favorite part of the program and im bias in Eco's case is that he works closely with the government of PNG to keep the reefs alive and full of fish.

I agree with Richie its on the wholesaler/retailer now to make sure that this information is provided and used for breeding or region specific tanks.

I dont wanna debate whose program is best because they are both doing good.

Regions like PNG need programs like Eco to ensure that what they have thrives so that they can sustain business and hopefully bring in more money for the people. We have no clue what those people live like. Eco's program will bring money to an area where its needed.

 

[tunicata]

I think detailed ecolabels are a good idea. I believe that "the more you know" the better your experience will be. I would buy products with ecolabels as long as I felt it was detailed enough to truly show that the organism (or rock) was sustainably caught from a legal location.
So many eco friendly labels out there are quite misleading. In terms of the aquatics industry, how would I know if the fish was caught in location X or location A off of the same island, where location X was deemed an illegal capture zone? Once again I have to trust that the companies endorsing the label are legitimate.

I've seen more of this type of thing around the agriculture industry. Everyone has 'certified organic' in some variation on their fruit and veggie stand (and products on shelves) and I'm sure many of them are not actually organic. I actually know many that are not worthy of the label yet still get the extra $$ because of the higher costs of growing and maintaining organic and environmentally friendly produce.

Without research and education, the consumer will be duped time and time again.

That unfortunately is the most difficult part, as Randy has already mentioned- figuring out how to educate the folks that have never considered how the fish/invert arrived in their LFS or buddies tank, what it means to collect sustainably also requires one to know the 'inhumane' practices. It always comes down to money and education.

I mean...as it is many people I know in the hobby, are in it because "the fish are pretty" or they saw Finding Nemo and their 5 year old wants Nemo. They will go to Petco, overlook potential ich and signs of body deterioration in addition to the care requirements (if provided) and buy a trigger, a tang, 2 clowns, a lionfish, shrimp and an anemone for a 30 gallon tank (the prices for these organisms at Petco are considerably lower than any brick and mortar LFS I've seen in NYC, NJ, or ME).

Petco actually provides caresheets, and has a website that gives similar details to Liveaquaria on care. However, the family/person that puts all of those fish into that 30g tank...chooses not to know.

Now, when it comes to pricing (which leads us into socio-economic inequality issues)...I think that the people that can afford the price increases in general, will buy for a few reasons (also similar to the increase in sustainability/eco labels on food)
1) because they can afford it and do not mind buying the eco brand as opposed to...the unmarked fish
2) they KNOW and care about marine sustainability issues and can afford the increase in price when they know the lower price of the unmarked fish
3) it is the 'new thing to do' (regardless of whether you have a history of caring about the world, it's posh to buy eco friendly products and it becomes a status symbo).
4) they do not know that there is a difference, the are first timers and the first livestock they became aware of are fish with eco labels. They do not know of an alternative and can pay the ecofriendly asking price.

As an aside, I wonder how the trend towards ecolabels for the hobby will impact for sale threads on forums!

 

[Ret_Talbot]

My favorite part of the program and im bias in Eco's case is that he works closely with the government of PNG to keep the reefs alive and full of fish.

I hear ya. The fisheries divisions in most of these countries are involved in varying degrees with marine aquarium fisheries. The PNG National Fisheries Authority (NFA) sees value (for a variety of reasons) in a sustainable marine aquarium fishery. Many people close to fisheries issues in developing Pacific island nations point to PNG's NFA proactive role in the tuna fishery as an indication of their commitment to sustainability overall. That fact that NFA is helping EcoAquariums with reef surveys is very positive. I hope NFA's commitment level remains high even with shifts in politics and resource priorities. Again, time will tell...

I agree with Richie its on the wholesaler/retailer now to make sure that this information is provided and used for breeding or region specific tanks.

I dont wanna debate whose program is best because they are both doing good.

I agree that at this point the focus should be on highlighting the handful of ecolabelling schemes out there, but I also suspect (as I alluded to in the article) that we are going to see a lot of privately-branded ecolabel programs emerging. Without third-party oversight and regulation, the marine aquarium media will need to do the research, split hairs and give hobbyists as accurate a view as possible of the pros and cons of each label. It's also important to note the difference between the two active ecolabel programs to which I refer in the article. One is a supplier in a source country, and the other is a wholesaler in the United States.

Regions like PNG need programs like Eco to ensure that what they have thrives so that they can sustain business and hopefully bring in more money for the people. We have no clue what those people live like. Eco's program will bring money to an area where its needed.

I must say that village life in places like PNG, Solomon Islands, etc. is pretty idyllic. I have never been treated with such hospitality, friendliness and joy as I have when visiting remote fishing villages in these countries. In the more remote villages that have had very little contact with global markets, there is virtually no poverty, hunger, homelessness, environmental degradation, etc.

It is when these villages start to enter global networks through trade, communication, etc. that things can go either way. The most enlightened people I have interviewed in the governments of these countries agree they must find ways to bring the remote villages forward without destroying either resources or culture. As I have written many times, based on my own first-hand experience, I believe sustainable marine aquarium fisheries are one way to accomplish this.

In the case of EcoAquariums PNG, Ltd., I have been to Fishermans Island (where EcoAquariums is based) and met some of the fishers. This is an island relatively close to Port Moresby, and a source of sustainable (both environmental and socio-economic) income is very important. In the case of Fishermans Island, the marine aquarium trade can provide essential income, which will, in turn, move fishers away from destructive fishing practices and give economic incentive for reef conservation. In short, your support of programs such as this is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Ret_Talbot]

I think detailed ecolabels are a good idea. I believe that "the more you know" the better your experience will be. I would buy products with ecolabels as long as I felt it was detailed enough to truly show that the organism (or rock) was sustainably caught from a legal location.
So many eco friendly labels out there are quite misleading. In terms of the aquatics industry, how would I know if the fish was caught in location X or location A off of the same island, where location X was deemed an illegal capture zone? Once again I have to trust that the companies endorsing the label are legitimate.

This is a good point. Unfortunately, I suspect we are in a place in the marine aquarium trade where point-of-origin--even if only island specific (e.g., Fiji, Hawai'i)--is still a sustainably-minded aquarists best bet in terms of using his or her purchasing power to support sustainability. Can I be 100% sure that a fish harvested from an island with a sustainable marine aquarium fishery was not poached from an illegal area? No. Poaching occurs in all fisheries around the globe, and there are always people who will break the law if they think the rewards outweigh the risks. Having said that, I believe it's fair to say at this point that a fish reaching your LFS with an ecolabel identifying the point-of-origin of the animal as Fiji, PNG, Hawai'i, or Solomon Islands has a better chance of being sustainably collected than fishes from unknown "Indo-Pacific" points-of-origin. Unfortunately, the vast majority of marine aquarium animals are harvested in fisheries managed by countries with very poor track records when it comes to sustainability. That is changing, but it will take time, and hopefully ecolabels can help motivate said change.

I've seen more of this type of thing around the agriculture industry. Everyone has 'certified organic' in some variation on their fruit and veggie stand (and products on shelves) and I'm sure many of them are not actually organic. I actually know many that are not worthy of the label yet still get the extra $$ because of the higher costs of growing and maintaining organic and environmentally friendly produce.

Without research and education, the consumer will be duped time and time again.

Again, a good point. This is why, as the article alludes, we will, I suspect, eventually need a third-party ecolabelling scheme. As can be seen in the seafood industry and the "organics" industry, a profusion of privately-branded ecolabels led to consumer confusion and fatigue, as well as straight-up greenwashing. In the case of both of those industries, outside regulation and oversight has been essential to getting ecolabelling back on track.

That unfortunately is the most difficult part, as Randy has already mentioned- figuring out how to educate the folks that have never considered how the fish/invert arrived in their LFS or buddies tank, what it means to collect sustainably also requires one to know the 'inhumane' practices. It always comes down to money and education.

I mean...as it is many people I know in the hobby, are in it because "the fish are pretty" or they saw Finding Nemo and their 5 year old wants Nemo. They will go to Petco, overlook potential ich and signs of body deterioration in addition to the care requirements (if provided) and buy a trigger, a tang, 2 clowns, a lionfish, shrimp and an anemone for a 30 gallon tank (the prices for these organisms at Petco are considerably lower than any brick and mortar LFS I've seen in NYC, NJ, or ME).

Petco actually provides caresheets, and has a website that gives similar details to Liveaquaria on care. However, the family/person that puts all of those fish into that 30g tank...chooses not to know.

Now, when it comes to pricing (which leads us into socio-economic inequality issues)...I think that the people that can afford the price increases in general, will buy for a few reasons (also similar to the increase in sustainability/eco labels on food)
1) because they can afford it and do not mind buying the eco brand as opposed to...the unmarked fish
2) they KNOW and care about marine sustainability issues and can afford the increase in price when they know the lower price of the unmarked fish
3) it is the 'new thing to do' (regardless of whether you have a history of caring about the world, it's posh to buy eco friendly products and it becomes a status symbo).
4) they do not know that there is a difference, the are first timers and the first livestock they became aware of are fish with eco labels. They do not know of an alternative and can pay the ecofriendly asking price.

As an aside, I wonder how the trend towards ecolabels for the hobby will impact for sale threads on forums!

You are again correct that, in the absence of third-party certification, oversight and/or regulation, education becomes the most important part of this discussion. I think we need to expect more from the retailer in this regard, and I think we also need to expect more from the trade/hobby media. Obviously the local club and club-sponsored events are critical as well when it comes to education.

Most importantly, we need to be proactive. Let's remember that, as you point out, many (most?) first-time marine aquarium animal purchasers don't think the animal came anywhere but the fish store. If they do happen to know most marine aquarium animals are harvested from the wild, then they often assume the trade must be regulated. They certainly don't think by default that purchasing a given animal could contribute to reef degradation and social-economic inequity.

Discussions like this are, I think, very important. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[rookie07]

This is the first I am hearing of Ecolabels.
Yes, I would prefer to purchase only aquaculture Coral or Tank Raised Fish, and do so when ever possible (price is almost a non factor, I said almost). I fear for our oceans/reefs as there is a crazy amount of collection going on around the world with very few limits/restrictions in most places.
While I am not against natural collection of coral/fish, I think there need to be programs in place to properly remove said animals and protect the oceans/reefs for the future (I believe "seasmart" is a step in the right direction, but not enough).

Please keep in mind that I do purchased coral/fish collected from the ocean, but would prefer if it was "man-made" (aquacultured/tank raised).

 

[Awibrandy]

Some questions to get the discussion going: Have you ever seen an ecolabel associated with a marine aquarium animal at your local fish store?No
Would an ecolabel on a marine aquarium animal potentially impact your purchasing decision?Yes
Do ecolabels in other industries (seafood, paper products, appliances, coffee, etc.) influence your purchasing decisions? Yes

I have the same concerns as Tunicata already posted, and for the same reasons.
I know that I for one will be very skeptical of ecolabels until they are regulated some how. So many un scrupulous people in this world.

And yes Tuni, how will they impact our "For Sale Forum" will be something to see.

 

[Ret_Talbot]

This is the first I am hearing of Ecolabels.
Yes, I would prefer to purchase only aquaculture Coral or Tank Raised Fish, and do so when ever possible (price is almost a non factor, I said almost). I fear for our oceans/reefs as there is a crazy amount of collection going on around the world with very few limits/restrictions in most places.
While I am not against natural collection of coral/fish, I think there need to be programs in place to properly remove said animals and protect the oceans/reefs for the future (I believe "seasmart" is a step in the right direction, but not enough).

Please keep in mind that I do purchased coral/fish collected from the ocean, but would prefer if it was "man-made" (aquacultured/tank raised).

The fact you say price is almost a non factor (almost) is very similar to what I hear aquarists say around the country when I'm speaking. It will be interesting to see if, given the chance, a critical mass is willing to put their money where their mouth is at the point of sale. It certainly didn't pan out that way with Banggais.

Personally I believe the future of the trade will be a combination of way moe aquaculture combined with mariculture and sustainable wild collection. I have seen the positive resulting from sustainable marine aquarium fisheries, and I would not want to see that disappear, even if everything could be captive bred. That's a personal opinion thought, so I'll put y journalist's cap back on.

 

[rookie07]

It certainly didn't pan out that way with Banggais.

Funny you say that...I purchased 2 CB Banggai Cardinals at Manhattan Aquariums (Local LFS) for $40 a piece, which people said was so pricey for that fish...I did not care, as they were Tank Bred and I felt much better about it. Never purchased a Wild Caught Banggai Card.