Cycling question re detritus

[dowellmj]

Hello. I have a 65 gallon that I am cycling with frozen shrimp/cured live rock. Have been running just over a week with lights on and was going fine with some algae build so I basted off the rock which created a big detritus cloud in the tank. I am running mech/chemical filtration to let bacteria build in bio-substrate in filter but the water has not noticeably cleared in 3 days and is very green/brown.

I have not experienced this before in a cycle and have not bothered checking the parameters outside of temp/salinity as the cycle is new but should I just wait as it should clear on its own or do some water changes to help? Or/and clean filtration.

I only have lights on to try and maintain corraline that was on live rock.

Thanks for any input.

 

[dowellmj]

Also one whole shrimp dissolved in a week so should I add weekly

 

[bkstang]

I'm cycling another tank now. After my shrimp dissolved, I decided to add just pure ammonia, about 1 ml per 5 gallon of water that would increase ammonia to about 4ppm. Maybe this will be a better way. My water is crystal clear.

 

[theMeat]

What kind of mech/chem filter?

 

[dowellmj]

thanks for the feedback,

re ammonia - I was too scared by this route but may try, is that the recommended dose then?

re filter - eheim 2217 canister, I have an oversized skimmer so figured that plus the rock and regular water changes (plus correct stocking etc) would work

 

[theMeat]

Sump?
Overflow/surface skimming?
Hang on skimmer?

 

[dowellmj]

no sump, hang on skimmer

 

[bkstang]

I've heard different manufacturers have different ammonia concentration, but the difference will be small. I bought a quart made by "The Home Store" and this is what I get when I add 1 ml/5 gal. You can try a lower dose and check ammonia after 15-20 min. Make notes and adjust the dosage.

 

[marrone]

In the mid 80's people would use Ammonia Cloride to boost the bacteria levels during cycling. You couldn't buy it in a store so you would have to get it at a chemical ware house. You added it as the ammonia level was starting to peak and it would greatly increased the bacteria levels in your tank once the cycle was completed, this would let you add more things sooner and not have to worry about spikes. After you added it the ammonia test kit use to look black.

 

[dowellmj]

Thanks for the info but to confirm, what ammonia level do you think I should look to get at this stage of the cycle (1 week in) before i look for it to start dropping?

Also the other issue is the green/brown cloudy water that I have not experienced before in a cyle - should I water change as expected initially for it to dissipate much quicker especially with the filter

 

[marrone]

It all depends on the amount of ammonia that that they tank needs to catch up with. So, if you have a large source of ammonia, like a dead shrimp or fish, it will take a while for the tank to be able to process that, so the cycle could take sometime before you see the ammonia starting to drop and the nitrites going up.

Don't change any water during the cycle, that will just slow down the cycling of the tank. You should really not have the lights on, that way you wouldn't get any algae blooms during the cycle.

 

[bkstang]

I am using Dr Foster and Smith Nitrifying Bacteria, but you can also use Microbacter 7 that you can buy locally sometimes. I added ammonia to have 4-5 ppm. At this stage ammonia will not drop rapidly because you don't have enough nitrifying bacteria in the tank, so monitor it closely. If it starts to drop, that's a good sign. I'm in the 3rd week of cycling and my ammonia dropped from 3 ppm to 0 within 48 hours. I keep adding ammonia and bacteria to build a healthy system, probably for another 3 weeks. I don't have time now anyway to buy livestock. I wouldn't increase ammonia above 5 ppm.

 

[bkstang]

If you buy ammonia it has to be clean ammonia, non-scented.

 

[dowellmj]

thanks again so add ammonia at 1 ml/5 gal to bring it up to 5 PPM, monitor and raise a couple of times back to 5 PPM when it starts to drop to increase bacterial levels overall

you are saying I don't need to worry about the dirty water now as it should clear and turn the lights off

where do I buy the ammonia from?

thanks for your help

 

[bkstang]

Shoprite in Brooklyn has Ammonia but in 1 gallon containers. I bought mine in a Dollar store, 1 quart - $0.99. I'm not at this stage yet but what I know is, that once 4-5 ppm of ammonia will drop to 0 within 24 hours, you will need to monitor nitrite and nitrate. Nitrate will follow the high nitrite. Then a large WC, around 75-90% and you are good to go.

 

[theMeat]

I wouldn't add ammonia. If you do, make sure it's only ammonia in that bottle. Adding ammonia only helps speed up the first stage of the nitrogen cycle. That was an old school trick, before these quick cycle in a bottle stuff came on the market. They'r cheap, easy, work, and seed all stages of the cycle.
You'r almost there. Feed the tank every day or 2 as if there was fish in it. Watch the spikes. When nitrite comes down, do a 30% water change tops. And that's only if your nitrates are hi enough that you need a water change.
Watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKu-8UWKf40
Don't do a water change until cycle is complete, and leave the skimmer off. These things will only slow down the cycle.
Leaving the light off is a good idea, or at least cut back.
As far as cloudyness...you could put a finer floss in the canister, but with that set up that's all i got

 

[marrone]

Actually adding Ammonia Chloride wasn't an old school trick, it was something that was done to build up the bacteria in a tank to really high level, which could handle large bio-load right away. It worked very well, but eventually people stop using it, partly because it wasn't that easy to get and partly because it would make cycling the tank take a lot longer. Also, quick cycle type products, like Nitrex and such, where out well before Ammonia Chloride was used.

 

[theMeat]

Do you mean ammonium chloride? Yeah ammonia was an old school trick. There was also debate over whether or not you should add beer to start the cycle, because of the nutrients and alcohol, or drink the beer, wait a while, then pee in the tank. Because it lowered it's alcohol content, and added ammonia too.

 

[marrone]

I'm pretty sure it's ammonia chloride, got it from a chemical warehouse in the city, and actually it's not an old school trick, also there never was a debate over whether to use it or not. The other stuff, it's just a source of ammonia, the levels of it would be the only real issue in whether it's worth using or not.

 

[bkstang]

I agree and Marrone. Actually using a frozen shrimp method is not the healthiest method available. I don't remember where I read it but dead shrimp in some cases may create very dangerous bacteria. If you google it, I'm sure you can find it. Using ammonia and bacteria is cycling that is very well under control.