Are REd Dragons worth the prices??

[GQ22]

These things are 1700 gph @ 65 watts and are small, but are they worth it? A sequence Snapper for a third of the amount will @ 100-125 watts gives 1400 gph.

How long would it take to make up the difference anyway?

 

[House of Laughter]

Gally,

Would take exactly one month to catch up if run for one month -

Basically, the 65w pump (if run as circulation or skimmer at 24/7/365) would be 48kwh's per month - and judging by NYC electric standards at .18/kwh - it would run you about $8.75 a month - using the snapper would just about double it.

Now, from $8 to $16 might not be a big deal, BUT . . . . it's still double the cost.

Hope that helps.

House

 

[ming]

Based on the above,
For argument's sake, lets say snapper = $100 and red dragon = $300
you're trying to figure out the $200 difference
$8/month savings * 25 months = $200
so after 25 months, you'll start saving $8 month if compared to using the snapper
keep in mind this is assuming neither equipment needs to be replaced/repairs which then you would need to look into the reliability of each product

 

[bad coffee]

i seriously looked into the red dragons for my 58. i realized that if i went with eheims i could replace 5 whole pumps before i spent the same amount of money.

B
btw my shift key is broken. . .

 

[fritz]

Is * worth the money?

That's totally subjective. Is a Mercedes worth the money, a BMW? Deltec, H&S, Bubbleking etc. It's really a matter of preference. Many things in this hobby have a "20 inch rim factor"

(20 inch rims don't make your car faster, the only reason to get them is to say "Look MothaF'er I'm rollin on 20s!")

Red Dragon pumps are reportedly just Lagoona pond pumps with some titanium parts. There's a thread on RC where a guy was trying to turn his $50 lagoona pond pump into a red dragon pump. I doubt it will be the same, machine shop precision and DIY don't compare.

That being said, I would spend the money elsewhere. As Brett pointed out a cheaper pump will do just as good.

Chris (loismustdie) had a great quote:
"I've spent WAY too much money trying to save on electricity"
All in all I've probably spent a few thousand dollars trying to save $20 a month on my electric bill. How dumb.

My shift key was broken too but I think I just had something stuck underneath it because now it works.

 

[kimoyo]

Huh, a snapper does 2500gph at 96Watts. If you backed it up to about 1400gph it would still give you about 96W.

 

[LeslieS]

Huh, a snapper does 2500gph at 96Watts. If you backed it up to about 1400gph it would still give you about 96W.

Does this mean that even if the snapper is not used at full capacity, it still draws the maximum electricity? Sorry, pump specs still confuse me.

 

[kimoyo]

Does this mean that even if the snapper is not used at full capacity, it still draws the maximum electricity? Sorry, pump specs still confuse me.

Nah it depends on the pump curve.

As head pressure is introduced, flow decreases and watts increases until a certain point. Then as flow continues to decrease so does the wattage. The red line show watts vs. flow.

 

[ming]

Huh, a snapper does 2500gph at 96Watts. If you backed it up to about 1400gph it would still give you about 96W.

This is true, but anywhere in between the 2500 and 1400gph will be higher then 96Watts
You wont achieve the 2500gph unless you only have about 2 feet of head either which isn't realistic unless its in a closed loop maybe. My pump has to pump about 4 feet which would almost peak out at 110Watts unless I throttle it

 

[nycmat]

you are getting your moneys worth in the end as long as it keeps running and doesnt die. i have a red dragon 4. and it is in my sump and is quiet. i dont hear it. i run it on a manifold and it runs my whole system for that matter. and i have a mini red dragon in my bk 200. both are great pumps so far and no complaints. i would stick with mings opinion on this one. but if cost up front is a problem go with the ehiems. they are great pumps as well

 

[kimoyo]

Do you guys really think that a red dragon does 1700 gph @ 65 watts at all head pressures? Where's the pump curve? I posted the pump curve for the sequence for all to see.

Why not give a similar explanation of what happens with the red dragon pump when exposed to pressure?

At least we can start out with the correct specs for both pumps from the beginning.

 

[Wes]

if electricity costs .18kwh
the snapper uses the specified 98watts
the red dragon uses the specified 65 watts

it will take you 3086.419 days or roughly 8.46 years to make up for the price difference of $440 dollars. If the pump lasts longer than 8.5 years it is "worth it" in this case.

 

[House of Laughter]

Guess this about answers it - even if it were to run at teh baseline specs -

Good math Wes.

House

if electricity costs .18kwh
the snapper uses the specified 98watts
the red dragon uses the specified 65 watts

it will take you 3086.419 days or roughly 8.46 years to make up for the price difference of $440 dollars. If the pump lasts longer than 8.5 years it is "worth it" in this case.

 

[ming]

Do you guys really think that a red dragon does 1700 gph @ 65 watts at all head pressures? Where's the pump curve? I posted the pump curve for the sequence for all to see.

Why not give a similar explanation of what happens with the red dragon pump when exposed to pressure?

At least we can start out with the correct specs for both pumps from the beginning.

Y axis is liters per hour
(1 US gallon = 3.7854118 liter) or
(1 liter = 0.264172051 US gallons)
X axis = head in meters
(1 meter = 3.2808399 feet)

bottom shows head in meters, liters/hour, and watts

I am by no means arguing for or against the red dragon. Just showing some facts

 

[ming]

at .18 per kwh..
For my tank, I would use it at 4ft head so
Red dragon would be 70W @1400gph = 52kwh/month = 9.35
Snapper would be 110W @2100gph = 82kwh/month = 14.75
Keep in mind you're getting 700gph more with the snapper, and difference of $5.40/month

To make the argument more even, lets say I only needed 1400gph so I throttle the Snapper to 96W @ 1400gph so...

Red dragon would be 70W @1400gph = 52kwh/month = 9.35
Snapper to 96W @ 1400gph = 61kwh/month = 12.85
Difference of $3.50/month

now...back to work!

 

[jhale]

I'm happy with my Snapper :Blurp:

 

[leoskee]

if electricity costs .18kwh
the snapper uses the specified 98watts
the red dragon uses the specified 65 watts

it will take you 3086.419 days or roughly 8.46 years to make up for the price difference of $440 dollars. If the pump lasts longer than 8.5 years it is "worth it" in this case.

I dont know that many people that stick around with the same exact set up for 8.5 years. Chances are that you will end up upgrading/downgrading and the pump will end up on the market place. :dead1:

 

[LeslieS]

i run it on a manifold

What is a manifold?

 

[ming]

What is a manifold?

Its using a lot of T's to split the water out into difference places
Heres an example

 

[LeslieS]

thanks Ming, but you really need to clean your tank!!! :biggrin:

Are the Red Dragons quieter than the Snapper?