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duke62

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this is not me its a question for someone i know.if you have a son and he is 7 years old and you decide to leave to move to florida with the father of that kid.but you are not married and the relationship does not work out.can the woman bring the kid back to ny.
 

jaa1456

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Not 100% sure of those laws in NY, but in NJ you need consent to leave the state with a child. Married or unmarried. Being that it is the father leaving with the kid and not the mother, the mother could have the courts bring the child back.This is going by NJ laws remember. Unless the mother gave up complete custody of the kid and has signed something prior saying the child could leave the state. Highly unlikely for a woman to do this, so I would assume the child would be back soon by court order. I do not know NY law though.
 

TimberTDI

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Actually you need a NY lawyer as that is the state of origin of the child and the state where everything is happening in originally.

I do believe you are wrong. If you go back and read the original post you will see that all three family members are moving to Florida.
 

Larissa

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Actually, some of you are reading the question incorrectly. This is an unmarried mom and dad of a common child who want to move together to Florida, and mom wants to make sure she can move back to NY with the child if things go awry down there between her and the dad.

So no consent is needed to move to Florida, and it's not really a tough question. Yet.

As some have said, different states have different laws, although the UCCJA has made things a lot more uniform.

Moving from NY to Florida is not at all an issue. Should things go wrong in Florida, causing mom to want to move back to NY with the child, several things come into play. First, you need to know what Florida's required period of residence is. Although it's been a while since I practiced in NY, I believe in NY & NJ it's the same - 6 months for some issues, one year for others.

If the child is in FL for 6 months or more, it is likely that FL will be considered the home state of the child, and mom will have to file an application in the courts there to move back to NY with the child if dad won't just consent. Less than 6 months, and mom may still be able to file the application in NY. Again, you need to check the FL period of residency for applications of this nature. Also, note that mom doesn't just get a free pass to come back to NY with the child if she's been in FL fewer than six months (or whatever the requisite time period), she just gets to use NY as the venue for the legal issues.

Other factors come into play too: How connected are the child and dad? How much input did dad put into the child's day-to-day life? Did he read the child stories at bedtime? Did he see the child every day? Get the child ready for school, etc? Again, this is all what's brought up at the hearing, mom doesn't just get free rein to pick up and leave with the child.

There's only one way that I know of offhand that allows mom to leave a jurisdiction with the child and run to another state before filing an application for custody, and that's when there's domestic violence. A DV victim escaping an abuser can, in some or most jurisdictions, pick up and leave with the child as long as, when she gets to the new state, she immediately thereafter files for an order of protection (in NY - in some jurisdictions it's restraining order) and for primary custody of the child. Again, you need to check with FL to see that they allow this.

FYI, should a hearing be necessary to determine whether mom can return to NY with the child, mom will need to show a few things. The bias, as opposed to past years, is to permit a custodial parent to move with the child as long as: (1) She can show that she should be the parent of primary residence and have primary custody. This isn't assumed, although most judges still favor mom in custody battles unless she's shown herself to be unfit in some way. (2) She shows an articulable reason for moving, that doesn't include "I want to keep my kid away from dad and mess with him." She should show that her family is in NY and can help out or that she's got a good job opportunity there, or that her life is really there and so is the child's and the stint in FL was just a short aberration in the family history. Something like that. (3) She shows the court a well thought out parenting plan for the non-custodial parent. She can't just say, "Well, I want to move and dad has to come to NY and make time to see the child." She's got to say, "Well, I thought about it, and here's a reasonable parenting plan I've come up with, so dad doesn't lose his ties with the child: He can have Spring break with the child, 2 weeks of each of the two summer months, every other Christmas. We'll make sure they're on the phone at least 1/2 an hour every evening. Or we'll get a webcam so son and dad can talk to each other every day 'face to face.'" That is the kind of parenting plan that will induce the court to allow the move.

Note that although the bias is now in favor of allowing the custodial parent's move, it still isn't easy.
 

Kendall

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If they are already worried the relationship may not work, then it probably won't. Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
 

Larissa

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Oh, there are lots of reasons they may want or need to go...

Maybe someone's lost a job and has an offer in Florida. Maybe there's family in Florida on one side or the other. Cost of living is definitely not nearly in FL what it is in NY. Maybe there's an elderly and unwell relative that needs care.
 

TimberTDI

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Hey Duke,

There's your lady friend's answer:
There's only one way that I know of offhand that allows mom to leave a jurisdiction with the child and run to another state before filing an application for custody, and that's when there's domestic violence. A DV victim escaping an abuser can, in some or most jurisdictions, pick up and leave with the child as long as, when she gets to the new state, she immediately thereafter files for an order of protection (in NY - in some jurisdictions it's restraining order) and for primary custody of the child. Again, you need to check with FL to see that they allow this.
 

Larissa

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Oh, sure! Could be dad lost his job and has an offer in FL, things seem to be ok between him & mom, so he wants mom & son to come with him. Mom's uncertain that she'll be happy in FL and wants the option to return to NY with son if she can't stand it down there or if things don't work out between her and dad (I'm sure the lack of a wedding ring concerns her a bit, and it should).

I get both sides of it; I can definitely see moving for a job or family or something of that nature; people do it all the time. On the other hand, I know for a fact I couldn't or wouldn't want to live in Florida, and I'd hate it full time.

Thing is, people are going to do what they're going to do, no matter how silly it may seem from the outside. They should just be as informed as possible first, and the legal custodial ramifications of the move are rightly a concern of these people. Whichever one is asking is smart to do so before the move, since it can become a factor in the decision whether to move at all.
 

Larissa

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Hey Duke,

There's your lady friend's answer:

Only if there's domestic violence involved. If DV can't be proven, she can be forced back to FL anyway, even after reestablishing herself in NY. Lying to the courts can be a lot more expensive and time consuming than playing it straight, and is really never the best course of action.
 

duke62

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ok this is the thing and i know the whole story..my friends sister had a kid with this jerk 7 years ago.they broke up when he was 3months old.the kid started selling drugs and got caught and went to jail.he got out and went and had a baby with another girl.then he got arrested again and got out when my friends kid was 6.the mother of the second baby gave him the other kid.during this year he paid no child support except for 10dollars a week.that is what he was ordered to pay.somehow dont ask me how they started dating again.the kid is a real piece of SH@#.i know it isnt going to work.my friend knows it wont work.she didnt tell anyone till yesterday that she was back with him cause she was embarreased and dropped this bomb shell that she wants to move to florida with this guy who lined up a job at walmart..yeah that will pay his bills.we know when he cant buy and provide for these 3 mouths he will go back to what he was doing.his family is down there and she will have nothing and will leave..trust me she wont stay.and i dont think it will be easy for her to come back and will be in trouble.right now by court order he has every other weekend with the child.which when he has an activity like baseball he will tell her "im not going to take him so you take him this weekend"
 

KathyC

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ok this is the thing and i know the whole story..my friends sister had a kid with this jerk 7 years ago.they broke up when he was 3months old.the kid started selling drugs and got caught and went to jail.he got out and went and had a baby with another girl.then he got arrested again and got out when my friends kid was 6.the mother of the second baby gave him the other kid.during this year he paid no child support except for 10dollars a week.that is what he was ordered to pay.somehow dont ask me how they started dating again.the kid is a real piece of SH@#.i know it isnt going to work.my friend knows it wont work.she didnt tell anyone till yesterday that she was back with him cause she was embarreased and dropped this bomb shell that she wants to move to florida with this guy who lined up a job at walmart..yeah that will pay his bills.we know when he cant buy and provide for these 3 mouths he will go back to what he was doing.his family is down there and she will have nothing and will leave..trust me she wont stay.and i dont think it will be easy for her to come back and will be in trouble.right now by court order he has every other weekend with the child.which when he has an activity like baseball he will tell her "im not going to take him so you take him this weekend"

Highlighted sections..I count 4 or where the the 2nd child go?

There are an awful lot of 'what-ifs' there James!
 

Larissa

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Ah. OK, you need to tell this woman that it is imperative that she not move to Florida with this guy.

The whole world, including your friend's sister, knows it won't work out, and then she's got herself trapped down there - no friends, no family, no job, no support system. Just the courts of either Florida or New York, and probably no attorney to help her out because she won't have the money for it.

If he wants to go, he can go. It is not her obligation to follow him around the country just because he's got visitation with her son. It's his obligation, if he moves from the original jurisdiction and leaves her and their son in NY, to find a way to see the child. If he wants to be involved with his kid, he will be.

Tell her you heard this from someone who's been practicing family law for nearly 15 years. If she follows him to Florida, she's setting herself up for a world of trouble, and there's no way out of it or around it.

If she's being unreasonable, you can also play to her emotions with "if your relationship with 'crappy dad' is meant to be, it will be, so you don't have to follow him to Florida."

Ugh, I hope she listens.
 

duke62

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i am real close with this girl.i have know her since she was 11.i was like her older brother.i am 8 years older.she wont listen to me her brother or her sister.she is leaving.trust me i am a very good judge in character and this kid is crap.but she will go i guarantee and wont listen to anyone cause she is a 25 year old trapped in the brain of a 14 year old.she has no common sense and wants to do this to play house and she feels her parents wont need to take care of her cause she is a big girl now.but trust me it will not work out.especially the fact that he cant keep it in his pants and has 3 kids with 3 different woman and he is 25.
 

Larissa

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As much as it hurts you and her family, you may just have to let her go if she won't listen. She's over 18 and there's not much else you can do except advise her and be there for her when things inevitably fall apart.

I hate to say it, but she may have to learn the hard way.
 

duke62

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i know but it hurts my heart knowing this poor kid who calls me uncle is the 1 that in ultimately going to suffer.he has already been through so much.i want to just take him away from that mess.if she was 20 years old and wanted to leave with this guy i would say go learn your mistake and i will be here when you return.but with this poor kid wwho is the greatest kid there is is in the picture she isnt thinking of him.he is a sick kid.not life threatning illnessess but he always has some ailment like his anoids and tonsils and he picks up viruses and the drop of a hat.how will they pay for doctors.how will they pay for his medicine.they dont have health care plus down there and he will be the 1 paying for her mistake.i just wish she would listen to me.but i know she will not :(
 

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