The structure is there

[Anonymous]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/783824.asp?pne=msn&cp1=1


The fresh water side is already policed rather heavily through the DNR. Why can't the salt water side be the same way?

Glenn

 

[Anonymous]

arrrrgggghhhhh...... Mind moving this to the industry forum Chucker??

 

[SPC]

Posted by Glenn:

The fresh water side is already policed rather heavily through the DNR. Why can't the salt water side be the same way?

-In what way Glenn?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not really sure. But the freshwater hobby is rather strictly policed and it seems like if there ever were a USL list, or banned species list that the DNR should enforce that as well. Generally it's done at the wholesale level. (i.e. if a store is caught selling a banned species they track it down and fine both the store and the whoelsaler that provided it.) This affects the industry from the top to the bottom and closes all the gaps. I couldn't get a freshwater stingray, snakehead or pirahna if I wanted to. There are even certain species of aquarium plants that are illegal. Reptiles and small animals are regulated the same way (corn snakes, venemous snakes, sugar gliders, hedgehogs). It just seems odd that the marine hobby is the only one without these restrictions. Granted most of these regulations are designed to protect native ecosystems (i.e. Georgia) and not an ecosystem on the other side of the world (i.e. Indonesia) but like I said the structure for regulation is already there.

Glenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

Be carefull what you wish ......If Bush finds out Lionfish are eating the Grouper Larva off shore in Ga and S.Carolina their import would be banned tomorrow with the walking Snakeheads.........Or that yellow Tangs numbers are low in Hawii.....or that Herbavor fish and inverts are vital to any reefs" health! If we bann all the fish which need to be , for the health and well being of various Wildlife habitats........All this hobby will be able to take from the wild is Coral harming Parrot fish and Butterflies?
_________________
BMW Dixi
_________________
Mercedes Benz W120/121

 

[Anonymous]

I agree that the issue of which fish to put on the list is a whole other can of worms, but I don't understand the need for a new agency to regualte the hobby when there is already one in place. The benefit is that the DNR tends to look at things from a natural resources perspective (i.e. sustainability and impact) and not from an emotional "humane" point of view.

Glenn

 

[Contender]

Be carefull what you wish ......If Bush finds out Lionfish are eating the Grouper Larva off shore in Ga and S.Carolina their import would be banned tomorrow with the walking Snakeheads.........Or that yellow Tangs numbers are low in Hawii.....or that Herbavor fish and inverts are vital to any reefs" health! If we bann all the fish which need to be , for the health and well being of various Wildlife habitats....

Your comment seems one sided...are you sure we should always choose the aquarium hobby when the future of the reefs are involved? You should be careful what you wish for, as well.

 

[beerbaron]

id like to repeat what Contender just said. if it is bad for the reefs, we shouldnt be doing it.

 

[dizzy]

Banning lionfish now might be a little like closing the barn door after the cow is out. Take a look at the articles posted on reefsource.com
They have become common enough that North Carolina Aquarium at Pine Knoll Shores is going to set up a display featuring them. Even if they are banned you can go to the coast and catch your own. Very sad really and defintely another huge blackeye for the industry.

The snakehead problem is a very poor example of the government's effectiveness in policing the industry. It really makes you wonder why fish like piranha are still legal in many states.

If yellow tangs are declining then there should be a limit placed on the harvest, based on sustainable numbers.

 

[Kalkbreath]

I like to think of it as "DIVERSITY" expanding what the divers see under water? Many years ago a comet blasted the Carribean and killed off most of the coral and fish...... this is why the Carribean is less diverse with regaurds to the types of coral and fish living there.......man kind is reintroducing corals and fish that would have been there had this giant rock from space not set back the area a million years in evolution ....now man is making the region more stable by bringing more a diverse make up of animals........and lessening the problems a mono culture reef has with reguards to desease and whipeout......... :wink:
_________________
recession in us
_________________
Slovenian Forum

 

[Anonymous]

I think Kalk is right.

Introducing more animals into ecoystems where they don't belong is great for diversity.

Just like the introduced zebra mussels that killed off 80% of endemic freshwater mussels in the U.S.

Or like the giant tulip snail that was introduced in Hawaii and wiped out their endemic land snail populations.

Introducing animals is always a good thing!

I'm voting for Kalk for ESA president!

 

[Kalkbreath]

What I would really like ,is to be HEAD of the Fla KEYS Sanctuary......then I would trade out all those UGLY brown native corals for bright Beautiful Indo Pacific corals ! This one act would increase tourism ten times, then I would introduce a visitor tax. This tax would then raise enough money to solve the problems killing the reefs there! I would be the hero of the day ! The fish and reefs creatures would carry me on their backs and parade me around.......... :wink: like the champain in the but I am!
_________________
being sued for debt
_________________
Honda CB350F

 

[Anonymous]

Kalk,

I already thought of that idea. But, the Atlantic corals are much more adapted to the warm bathtub waters there than the colder Pacific waters.

A more likely scenario would be that as sea temperatures continue to increase, we will have to replace all the dead Pacific corals with Atlantic ones that will be able to tolerate the increased temp of the Pacific.

That means darned brown corals everywhere! Shucks!

Why didn't you make it to the Borneman talk by the way?

 

[Kalkbreath]

What makes you think that the Pacific reefs are cooler? Hawaii is cooler. thats why no colorfull corals grow there, I visit the Keys every Christmas......and .......well its most likely the COLDEST reef in the world! MEETING WHAT MEETING? Sounds like it was great. Yet, Eric would not like my questions.{like if temperature is not an issue with coralhealth ......then why all the bleaching in the wild ? The water temps were only two degrees above normal in the Maldives and 98%those reefs melted away! Also I stongly feel that Erics over estimates on the collection numbers in Fiji {by 100 TIMES MIND YOU}{ TWICE WHAT IS PHYSICLY POSSIBLE EVEN IF EVERY AIRPLANE WAS HAULING ONLY LIVE CORAL!}Isw what has caused this current CITES issue......... CITES was alarmed when the heard his obsurd estimates....... He has no business advising anyone on coral exports numbers.If he takes ten years to complete a report on coral damage by this hobby in order to make certain that all data is correct ,then why the ***** did he take so little time and effort in jis report on Fiji collection? Otherwise I love his otherwork, Plankton ,light etc. I am going to get the video. Also ......Get ready....I am going to post on the Hawaiin coral smuggler issue........the truth is very odd!
_________________
what is a recession
_________________
Friday Night Lights Forum

 

[dizzy]

I think Kalk is right.

Introducing more animals into ecoystems where they don't belong is great for diversity.

Just like the introduced zebra mussels that killed off 80% of endemic freshwater mussels in the U.S.


Introducing animals is always a good thing!

Dr. Reef your being sarcastic again. The major downside of the zebra mussel problem is that they clog water intake pipes and cause more maintenance as they need to be cleaned out to prevent blockage. The upside is that the water clarity has increased dramatically since their introduction due to their filtering ability. Besides I wouldn't eat mussles from the polluted freshwater American lakes. Might as well look for the silver lining

 

[Chucker]

You wouldn't eat zebra mussels anyway- they rarely get any longer than 2" from end to end.

 

[Anonymous]

Dr. Reef your being sarcastic again. The major downside of the zebra mussel problem is that they clog water intake pipes and cause more maintenance as they need to be cleaned out to prevent blockage.

Did I lay it on that thick?


Dizzy, that may be an important economic and human-affecting downside, but the reality is that zebra mussels have outcompeted and forced extinction of endemic mussels. That result is far more negative to the invaded ecosystems. They have also changed the trophic structure of many streams as they have removed so many food particles in their filter feeding.

Oh well.

 

[Anonymous]

What makes you think that the Pacific reefs are cooler? Hawaii is cooler. thats why no colorfull corals grow there, I visit the Keys every Christmas......and .......well its most likely the COLDEST reef in the world!

Okay, so you visit the Keys every Christmas. Do you also vist Fiji, Australia, Bali every Christmas? If not, then you are in for a surprise.

Let me tell you it is infinitely cooler. Even in November. Remember the Bali conference? My lab group went, and boy were some of us newer research associates shocked. The other profs were prepared for it of course, having done most of their work in the Pacific over the past 30 years, but those of us who were newer to the Pacific were freezing!

Incidentally, the clades of zooxanthellae found in the corals of the Pacific versus the Caribbean supports the concept that Atlantic corals are more suited to higher temps.

Listen, Kalk. Not trying to make you look wrong, but the Caribbean is simply a warmer sea than the Pacific areas. Obviously the flats in any area will be warmer than the overall avg. This is probably attributed to the greater size of the Pacific and thus, the greater capacity to resist warming and cooling from the sun.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Perhaps if you look at yearly {water temps} for the Red Sea , Philipines , Shri Lanka.you will change your thinking ? The January watre temps in the Keys are some of the coldest of the worlds reefs. twelve years ago the air in the Keys was below freezing and cold water temps killed much of the coral..thank goodness for global warming since then !
_________________
Medigap Forum
_________________
BMW 327

 

[monkeyboy]

Whoa, anyone catch this from the article?

"Two snakeheads which have been given the 'Frankenfish' nickname were dumped in the Maryland pond by a local resident who bought them from a live fish market to make soup "

(insert vomit emoticon here)