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Mike King

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I don’t want to be dragged into the argument of any organizations past. What they accomplish or say they did is in their running record. It is my personal opinion that if any non-profit organization misuse’s any funding that is tagged for Humanitarian, Environmental and Social Economic projects in nations where poverty is rampant that they should be held accountable and tried for crimes against Humanity.

In a few days I will be traveling to the Philippines as the representative of CORL to observe the work that is being done by the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC), local governmental units, and the collectors in creating sustainable fisheries in the Batasan area. This trip will help inform CORL to better understand how the MAC Certified Area Management Program’s ( CAMP)’s are set up and how they will interact with the Local Governmental units (LGU)’s Coastal Resources Management Program. The CAMP’s and sustainable fisheries that they will form are only a small part of the Coastal Resource Management Programs and their goal of sustainable resource use. This trip is been made possible by the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) and is to start laying the foundation of a working partnership between CORL and the MAC to work on the common goal of sustainability for the Philippines and its people. Other issues to be looked at will be 1) Net Training and retraining along with reinforcement of non destructive fishing methodologies: 2) Cyanide testing ; and 3) the value received from the fish caught in the CAMPs and certified collectors. During this trip I will also have the chance to meet with the head of the BFAR (the PI equivalent to US Fish & Wildlife) and other Philippine government representatives to talk to them and offer CORL’s help in the Philippine’s.

The environmental movement in the Philippines is gathering momentum but the amount of damage from destructive fishing and pollution has and continues to cause considerable amounts of damage.
In many areas a sustainable marine ornamental fishery will not be possible for but a hand-full of fish species (if at all) even with corrective measures it could take years to recover other lost fisheries. In many other areas the rate of habitat loss due to the demands of a rapidly growing population is quickly claiming the remaining coastal habitat areas, more and more people are dependent upon the dwindling resources.

Action is needed now to combat destructive fishing and pollution and to move forward in creating sustainable resources management especially for those fisheries in the Philippines upon which so many people depend on. To create just sustainable fisheries in the Philippine Islands (PI), the PI Government will need the help of many non-governmental and not for profit organizations along with the help and participation of its people. To fight back the causes leading to the habitat destruction a very strong ecosystem management approach program will be needed. The fishermen and the villagers who depend upon the coastal resources must have the incentive to participate in the needed reform. This is not an easy task for them either, as 80% of the villagers consider feeding their family that day their primary concern.

The value the marine ornamental trade offers for many of the living and nonliving coral reef resources are usually the highest market values placed on those resources. In example : A 4” clown trigger is worth the same as any other 4” fish in a villages “wet” fish market, that fish to a trigger happy marine hobbyist its worth 180.00 easy. BTW, Many collectors have been injured or killed collecting the “inexpensive” tiny clown triggers from the deep reefs also.

We all need to work together, starting a New Philippine Initiative is a good idea, I’m all for it.
Instead of fighting and being destructive we need to accept past failures and to share the screcrets of success. Even more important we need to combine our talents and transfer the skills and tools to the communities while there is still time. The environmental situation in the Philippines is critical. They need our help now (ok yesterday, last week, last year and for the last couple of decades). While the marine industry is just a part of the problem it gives the highest return for the resource. If the marine ornamental resources are managed and done sustainably this will be a great and important start and it gives the collectors, fishermen and villagers the right incentive to push forward with other environmental programs that will help create a sustainable future for themselves and their children’s futures.

The needed netting material is on the way..and I hear there's more pay for the collectors on the way. Next is the Net Training...one more time........


Mike King
CORL
 

Jaime Baquero

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Mike,

I am glad to know that new blood is injected to this new working phase in the Philippines.

Jaime Baquero
Ocean Voice International
 
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What they accomplish or say they did is in their running record

It is my personal opinion that if any non-profit organization misuse’s any funding that is tagged for Humanitarian, Environmental and Social Economic projects in nations where poverty is rampant that they should be held accountable and tried for crimes against Humanity.

World Court VS. NGO Fraud, yah Mike. How does one bring such a case against them, it would force a lot of wrong doing to public eye, make them accountable and make them pay for what they've done (failling the issue/stealing the cash).
 

PeterIMA

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Message to Mary Middlebrook (the moderator).

This is in complaint for your letting Gresham, Stefe Robinson, and Mike King post this anti-NGO trash (see the previous message). The NGOs have a right to get personal if this continues. I also agee with Tim Tessier that the "reformists" need to work together. Bashing each other is not the answer, lets try to identify the problems, and provide suggested solutions.

Peter Rubec
 

MaryHM

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Peter,

With all due respect, you are wrong. The NGO's do not have a right to get personal. Not on my watch. You can't have it both ways- attack MAC but have the IMA left untarnished by adverse opinions. Would it be fair for me to allow Paul Holthus to come in here and trash talk you because you have a differing opinion on the worth of MAC? Of course not. And the same applies to you. In my opinion, the NGO's are fair game here- especially any of them that take donations or taxpayers money. But people and businesses are not. That's the rule.
 

Mike King

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Anti-NGO trash? All I state in my post which started this thread is a call for a new gathering of NGO’s to help solving the many problems in Philippines and what we I will be doing in the Philippines during my trip.

I may start my post with my personal opinion but it's just that, the only people who could be upset about it I would think are those who may be guilty of such actions. What I state is my own personal opinion and I and my organization will stand by it. If your organization doesn’t like it just stay clear of CORL and me. I welcome the help of all honest organizations in helping solve the problems in the poorer nations and transforming the marine ornamental industry there from one which has been generally an extrapolative industry to one that is beneficial to the primary stakeholders. As I stated I stand by my opinion if your organization wishes to associate with CORL don’t rip off those your being paid to help. (as if funds are misappropriated and I find out I will report it to the funding organization.) CORL is for the people in those nations who depend on the marine resources to live and also for those hobbyist around the world that enjoy the beauty of those same resources in their homes.

Michael R King
Director of CORL
 

mkirda

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Mike King":2zt06e2v said:
I don’t want to be dragged into the argument of any organizations past. {snip} It is my personal opinion that if any non-profit organization misuse’s any funding that is tagged for Humanitarian, Environmental and Social Economic projects in nations where poverty is rampant that they should be held accountable and tried for crimes against Humanity.

Ain't gonna happen, Mike.
At most, it would be fraud, and would be best attacked via the local country's court system. More likely, it would be considered "mis-management". IOW, don't fund them again.

Again, said it before, saying it again: All of the NGO players and concerned organisations (i.e. AMDA) need to understand that dredging up the past and how something failed to deliver, attacking programs, personal attacks, etc. will do absolutely *NOTHING* to further the cause. You need to learn to play nice and work together to solve the issues at hand. This is much harder than writing yet another e-mail harping on someone/something, but the end result (i.e. any positive result!) will make it worth it. Here is where actions do speak louder than words.

Getting netting to the Philippines is a great first step. So is doing more net-training. But these are just two first steps in a much longer journey.

I just honestly hope that all the NGO's haven't burned too many funding opportunities by their on-line bickering. That would be the greatest loss of all.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

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Thank you Mike!
You said...

...'Getting netting is the first step and then more training...but these are just two steps in a much longer journey.."

After 20 years of NGO programs and budgets allocated to deal with the problem, do you relize the implications of your statement?
Do you mean we are finally going to take the "first step" and then the "second step"? Do you infer that these steps were not taken in years gone by? And why not? You radical you!
In every reform cycle, [its like El Nino, it comes around every few years] people clamor for the "lets let bygones be bygones", and plead for all to work together. Sounds good, only it assumes that all are actually working for the same things. Which they are not. Some are environmentally oriented, some social development oriented, some trade oriented , some money oriented and some ego oriented
Ignoring the errors of the past and then allowing for the return of the same ol tired, predictable mistakes is to accept failure again as an option.
Some of us don't want to waste another reform cycle.

Yes, yes, I know. We have to do it again. For the sake of personal harmony and well being, we have to turn the other cheek, pretend to be on the same page and tolerate all factions as one, big, happy family. I know the drill. In the reform cycles of 83, 86, 91, 95 and 99 ...this was mandated also.
Reform cycle 2003 . ..OK , I'll behave. All together now.
As Mike said..."getting netting is the first step, and then more training...but these are just two steps to a much larger journey..." I couldn't agree with you more Mike. I trust we will not be seeing each other 3 years from now on Reefs.org talking like this.
Sincerely, Steve
 

jamesw

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Hi Mike,

With all due respect, it is totally rediculous for you to state:

What I state is my own personal opinion and I and my organization will stand by it.

And then sign your posting off as:

Mike King
Director of CORL

So which is it? Is it your opinion or the policy of your organization? Is it the policy of your organization to bash other NGO's who have put in a concerted effort to bring about reform? I would think that as a professional, you would be able to refrain from those kind of activities and concentrate on the mission of your organization, right? Sustainability, training, reform, etc.

Cheers
James
 

mkirda

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cortez marine":14epltsn said:
After 20 years of NGO programs and budgets allocated to deal with the problem, do you relize the implications of your statement?
Do you mean we are finally going to take the "first step" and then the "second step"? Do you infer that these steps were not taken in years gone by? And why not? You radical you!

Steve,

This is exactly the type of post I was refering to: You twist my message into yet another snipe at all organizations that have tried to attack the problem over the last 20 years. This ain't helping.

I'm not saying that you need to hug Paul Holthus and sing Kum-ba-ya together. Understanding the mistakes of the past is an important thing, but working to make sure that they are not repeated is far more important. AMDA cannot do it alone- You must work with all parties involved.

Get beyond the mistakes of the past, and work to fix them. Actions, Steve, not words. Get over to the Philippines and train the trainers. Train more villagers. Make sure the netting is distributed. Make sure that the villagers understand the basics of husbandry and shipping. Get them to the good exporters in good shape. You do that and you've accomplished something great.

The greater issues will remain: How to rehabilitate the reefs? How to reduce fishing pressures? How to introduce alternative livelyhoods? These will continue to need work well beyond the next five years, I fear. And they will not be solved with netting and more training.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

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Yes Mike,
I agree with the agenda you propose. Its an old one and has been thwarted time and time again. This time however, I trust you will be around to keep it honest and to keep it from being sabatoged.
I'm counting on you and your sense of purpose and focus to monitor, evaluate, witness and even participate if you like. This is a service desperately lacking before, so this time has just got to be different... Sincerely, Steve
 
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Just as a general observation from someone who simply tries to keep fish at home.

I ain't never going to make the mistake of clicking on this part of the Forum again :!: I thought I was going to the General Discussion and I saw the top post. Read that, then tried to read some others. That's when I figured out that Toto and I wasn't in Kansas anymore.

Geese. You people gripe more than we do in the Sump.

I had read Vitz's message (petition I think?) the other day in the main Discussion and thought to myself that yeah it's a good thing, but is any good really going to take place. Well it looks like some of you have been trying for years to solve the un-ethical parts of this hobby/business. I don't know if what I am seeing is personal problems, professional pissing matches or what. But don't come to me and ask for any money. Ain't nobody that bickers this much getting any of mine with my knowledge.

I go into my LFS and they tell me whatever it takes to make the sale. I have no way of proving where a fish comes from without great expense. So if you want to do some good for the average person, why not try making it impossible to obtain the poisons necessary for fishing :!: Quit wasting time/money training people that are only going to go back to the poisons supplied to them.

I wish I had an answer on how to control the middleman. I don't.

I also would not announce that I was going down to inspect how things were being done. I'd just show up. Don't give them any warning to clean-up their act for a couple weeks while you vacation down there.

And before anybody goes off on me about not having any knowledge about the situation etc, remember, I already said I am just an average fish keeper. It's people like me that you want to convince to support or fund your activities to try to make the hobby better. If you want the averge persons support, get some results and knock-off the infighting.

Greg
 

mkirda

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Bucolic Buffalo":39m49q6k said:
I had read Vitz's message (petition I think?) the other day in the main Discussion and thought to myself that yeah it's a good thing, but is any good really going to take place. Well it looks like some of you have been trying for years to solve the un-ethical parts of this hobby/business. I don't know if what I am seeing is personal problems, professional pissing matches or what. But don't come to me and ask for any money. Ain't nobody that bickers this much getting any of mine with my knowledge.

Thanks for proving my point.

I also would not announce that I was going down to inspect how things were being done. I'd just show up. Don't give them any warning to clean-up their act for a couple weeks while you vacation down there.

That would be a good way of getting yourself killed. At an absolute minimum, you need a guide who knows the villagers. Me, I'm pretty adventurous. I would not "just show up" without someone who knows the lay of the land.

Thanks for the perspective, Greg. I personally think it was needed.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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mkirda":2x2n4x2w said:
I also would not announce that I was going down to inspect how things were being done. I'd just show up. Don't give them any warning to clean-up their act for a couple weeks while you vacation down there.

That would be a good way of getting yourself killed. At an absolute minimum, you need a guide who knows the villagers. Me, I'm pretty adventurous. I would not "just show up" without someone who knows the lay of the land.

Thanks for the perspective, Greg. I personally think it was needed.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

I had to come back to see how the thread progressed of course.

Now that you point it out, yes, I agree with your point about needing the guide and basically asking permission to visit. Nobody wants to get killed messing up somebody else's business transactions.

Thanks for the kind comment, hope I helped.

Greg
 

Mike King

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Well I'm on my way to the Philippines to see what the MAC, has been doing there, along with how the Certified Area Management Plans link together with the Local Governmental units and their Coastal Management programs. I will be conducting interviews with as many of those involved as possible.

This is the start of CORL's work in the sustainable collecting, and I want Steve Robinson to be involved and I am working on making that happen. Steve has the expertise and knowledge needed to create a successful training program with very little back-sliding.

I know it won’t be easy for some of the old guard in the Philippines to accept Steve as a part of our training team. I hope that they realize just what is at stake and will look past their old differences so we all can work together for a sustainable marine ornamental industry in the Philippines.

( yes they are watching this BB, )

To all those exporters in the Philippines, CORL is coming to help, lets try to be constructive and work together on creating a totally clean supply of well handled undrugged fish for the hobby and the industry you all depend upon.

I will post a report on my findings for the hobbyist here on this forum ASAP upon my return. I just found out this morning the American Samoa government wanted me to be in American Samoa tomorrow, Opps oh well cant be in both places at once :? looks like I'll be heading there hrs after my return from the Philippines.
I will try to connect online from the Philippines if possible. Otherwise it may be at least 3 weeks (I will order internet access for my house ASAP but its gonna take a few weeks “ah yes Island time “).

Take care,
Mike King
 

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