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ferdiecruz

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Jhon,
Let us talk about Bohol in combination with the CDT that I heard is going to be implemented for MAC certified exporters ONLY.
I would presumed Jhon, that when you go somewhere to do some fact-finding mission you would prepare everything and demand for information from the person or organization that is sending you to prevent being use as a scapegoat or a patsy. You would also demand for any materials and records that you can study prior to the trip. You would also get a map study the geographic location of where you are going and learn what places or islands are nearby learning the relationship they have with site you are being sent to. You would try to learn about their culture and peculiar idiosyncrasies if you can because this is important. After having done this you will now study the nature of the problem that needs looking into and try to get as much information as you can to arm yourself, like a management plan, financial aspect, LGU’s outlook and data of shipments. You would now narrow down the scope of what you want first to look into and list down the “What if’s” of your agenda. I hope this is what happened because I do this every time before doing a project or a fact-finding mission. The same as you I will do my homework thoroughly as I can so that when I leave the place, my conscience is clean knowing that I did the whole work to the best of my ability. I would not dare ask you if this has been done. I presumed you did it.
Bohol is a torn on my side. I failed there. It was natural for me to do Batasan during the FS because another IMA field director trained in that area as well as grouper training in Clarin, not net-training (the reason I avoided Clarin and also I was told it was so bombed out that there is nothing left). I know of one person in Batasan who used to work with me collecting fish in the Moslem South of Palawan that I later transferred to Southern Luzon because his skills did not improve in collecting Blue Faces and other species a bit harder to catch by net. In short he did not have the “it”. I later made this guy a boat captain when he did not improve even in the Southern Tagalog site and later sent him home. When I opened up Batasan I was brought there by an IMA lady staff that was part of the IMA training team that did the training there. I was introduced to the IMA net trained beneficiaries and introduced the MAC FS. I met this guy again and he was telling everybody gathered around us how hard it was to catch Blueface angels and that he never learned even when we did a one on one with me in Palawan. When I asked this lady if these collectors where shipping to Manila I was told they were, through a middleman because they needed cash. When I asked about the species the answered was she did not know but that there were a lot. I asked the collectors and they said there were a lot and that they have been protecting their area. “My mistake here is not validating the whole thing and going into the water.” “I left it to the training staff to do it.” I told the collectors IMA and MAC was trying something and if they want to join I can talk to some exporter to put some fish payment money for a while just to see how things will go. Shipments came, it was bad, only a few species came in and no one would dare ship Blueface immediately because I would immediately catch on to what was happening. One Blueface was shipped out once later and I went into a fit buring the telephone lines. The feedback was it was caught by our taining staff whom I transfered to Palawan and asked to catch a Blueface. (He never caught one) After three shipments I started doubting the whole set up in Batasan. I knew that in the past this area was as rich as Cebu in species diversity. They had the Majestic and Bluefaces in volume. I went back there and question this IMA lady. I was shocked. The beneficiaries that were trained were not true collectors and had other means of livelihood. The IMA training was not handled properly according to her. They joined for free food and nets given to them during the IMA training. (Barrier nets can be use for catching food fish.) When I asked her why she did not report this to IMA she just shrug her shoulders. I reported this to IMA and the President blew his top. I did three or four more shipments from that place asking them to prove that they have more species and why I should not stop. Those shipments were also total disasters so I started doing a phase out. The story of depletion and almost total reef destruction in those areas was the reason why they cannot send in more variety of species. Then what got me speechless and disgusted was when I later found out that the area was reopened in a hush-hush way with the same lady now working full time for MAC and was told the person I trained a decade and a half ago was catching Bluefaces angels, the few that was left in that island. And to make matters worst I heard from somebody that the whole Batasan Island was declared a protected area during the Marcos regime. I asked this lady if it was true and to find out if it has been repealed because we would be technically doing illegal work and encouraging fish extraction that is not for personal consumption but for trade and for her to get back to me. She never got back to me on this so I told Mr. Peter Scott to find out and get back to me too. I did not get any feedback on this up to now. I really do not know if the entire Batasan is technically a protected area or not up to now. If it is true that the island was declared a protected area even if it is not enforce anymore repealing that law must be done.
We should not repeat history because if we do I fear we will be driving in the last nail into the coffin of an already ailing industry in this country. Our government almost put a ban on this industry because they felt they were scammed. The training of another organization gave birth to collectors waiving their certificates under the noses of LGU’s and enforcers and was allowed to fish anywhere and everywhere by unsuspecting enforcers. CDT certificates that had results that showed NEGATIVE were sent abroad with shipments, even if mortality was heavy with fish so groggy with cyanide. It spawned graft when collectors where caught red-handed using cyanide and CDT certificates being altered and recycled. It was the golden era for the use of cyanide and recycled CDT results. Honest net-caught collectors were denouncing cyanide using collectors and exporters that encouraged its use. It reached a point where what was going on could not be hidden anymore that it almost produced a nationwide ban had IMA not step in. Exporters rushed back and forth offering incentives if collectors can speak out in support of the lobby against the ban. Now there are a lot of LGU’s banning ornamental fish collection and if not they ban the use of hookah being misinformed that hookah use is automatically link to cyanide.
We have to be very careful about our statements. It will harm the industry. If MAC turns into the same kind of organization that brought on the stigma into this industry by doing Certification that has so many flaws that you can see “USA from the Philippines” with the holes it has then I now issue the challenge that I can destroy the credibility of their certification and the methods of their certifying arm or certifier easily any time they are want to if and when they accept this challenge. I DARE MAC ON THIS!
Now I heard that MAC is going to do CDT ONLY FOR THE MAC CERTIFIED EXPORTERS. I hope this is not true. I could die laughing if this is funny but it is not. Now MAC wants to be the judge, jury, and executioner. What is the hidden agenda on this? Is MAC the only agency that can institute change in the industry? Have they proven themselves? Does MAC think that “computer pushing” to bring out thick documents and ideas are the solution to the problem? When I was still working for MAC their certification director was not transparent with the methods and interpretation of how they certify exporters. I was begging for this and I was begging for the Collection Area Management Plan of Batasan too. I never got anything from them how much more the public. Okay, use the CDT test on certified exporters, who do not even have certified fish. If they have, it is a few clown fishes from Bohol that can be caught by hands. These clowns are free swimming because anemones have been wiped out from these areas. If these fishes can talk they will say "take me I am homeless and tired of just swimming around.” How many net-caught fish are going into the certified facilities? Not even 1%. If this is not a serous I think MAC should attach the name of CLOWN in their name. Infected clown fishes from Bohol are what they are known for anyway. Yet the tragedy is they could have done better if they were willing to listen.
What we need is an organization that is more dynamic and can evolve with the change of time. Honest and ready to accept mistakes so things can be corrected. Willing to listen and have the integrity and purpose that net collectors can relate to and is capable in influencing non-net collectors who would on their own have the urge to join and reform. An organzation that everybody will be proud of. We do not need an organization that would try to subvert the movement of reform by devious means. We do not need an organization that wants to threatened those who do not want to join them because of their flaws and agendas that are against the best interest of the over exploited collectors. We do not need an organization that tries to ram down the throats of these oppress people ideas and systems that can never work. Implementing a flawed system that will only teach collectors and exporters to cheat. An Organization who does this is as guilty as collectors who uses cyanide and as guilty as exporters who encourages it and exploits the collectors. Most important is we do not need organizations that will set back the movement of reform that is already on the way long before MAC existed. And if MAC thinks that they can get their way just because they have a very good relationship with the BFAR National Director due to the special relationship their country director has withhim, then they have another thing coming. This can go as high as the Ministers and as high as the Executive branch if they want. I AGAIN DARE MAC to be partial to just one group and we shall see. If MAC can show that they can be a better organization, transparent and sincere I am willing to help. If not, then we shall see how this thing goes.
Next I will write about things ILLEGAL or almost ILLEGAL. Who acted as the catalyst?
 

dizzy

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Ferdinand,
I want to thank you very much for posting these messages. While some would prefer to spin everything in a much more positive light, I can assure you that there are also a great many of us who want to hear the way things really are. This forum is becoming famous as the place to come to hear "the other side of the story". Your involvement will only serve to enhance the dialog and expand the readship.
Many thanks
 

PeterIMA

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Ferdinand,
I applaud your postings here on Reefs.org. No one knows the problems facing the collectors and the situation with the MAC better than you. I understand what you have posted. There may be others who can not assimilate everything that you stated today. I encourage those reading this to submit questions, and to request clarification concerning the postings. We all need to know the truth, the whole truth. Only then can true reform of the marine aquarium trade be implemented for the benefit of the collectors, the coral reefs, and those involved in the trade of marine organisms to consumers. A sustainable trade is possible with help from concerned members of the trade and marine aquarium hobby.

Peter Rubec
 

horge

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Ferdie:

Greetings.

Regarding that possible Protected Area thing (covering Batasan), hindi ako 100% sigurado, since I don't have a complete list of old FAO's... pero I don't recall that island on that end of Bohol ever being designated a protected area. Given the Dimayuga ops, wouldn't BEMO throw a tantrum if it was? (well, okay, maybe they don't know how, but...).

Again, I'm not sure, pero just the same, here's a possible source of any impression that it's within a Marcos-era (or any era) MPA: Some locals may interpret the 'traditional' zona system --or its memory-- as the residue of an MPA. These zonas would have constituted a string of de facto MPA's, but sans the (feeble) force of law. Pre-war pa ata iyang mga zona na iyan ---mga 'Kano (1930's) ang mga nagpa-uso, and I don't know that any Commonwealth ordinances on marine resources would apply today.

It's often tough to decide what's illegal and prosecutable, even though the law can be clear: You might know that by Republic Act, all marine shorelines of the Philippines are actually off-limits to private ownership (parang 'federal property' iyan), and yet we have all these private homes, resorts and whatnot, with real titles pa. What can you do?

The Local Governments Code that Nene Pimentel wrote for Cory gives LGU's more muscle, so maybe Clarin can thereby thumb its nose at any supposed FAO from decades ago.

I'll try to find out kung nasa loob ng isang MPA iyang Batasan na iyan: malapit lang dito ang lungga ng BFAR, twenty minutes' drive. Baka bukas ng hapon o kaya later this week meron akong mai-alok na kalinawan.
Almost nobody listens to them nowadays, so maybe they'll be happy to see someone bother them with questions.
:twisted:


Now that I think about it... I don't know what would be worse,
finding out that Batasan is within an MPA, or finding out that it isn't.



isang kapwang Pinoy,
Horge
 

horge

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Oh well.

I just got back from BFAR (Arcadia Building, Quezon City, Metro Manila)
and Legal doesn't know of an MPA covering Batasan Island. That's not the final word though.

They say the older gargoyles at DENR might know more, but I'm not about to walk into that wretched snakepit of greed and villainy.

It looks like the Dimayuga op clears the bar of the law, MPA-wise.



horge
 
A

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Ok, I have many questions, mostly clarification of the "acronyms". Also, I only speak a wee bit of Spanish, and absolutely NO Tagalog (assuming this is the language you're using, Horge--I know that there are MANY languages endemic to the Philipines).

I would like to verify who, exactly, founded MAC (cannot recollect name--CEO of Petsmart?), and if it's true that this organization was founded by a corporate man, then I am able to extrapolate from my own experiences working with Petco (when they tried out having their own central distribution center at HQ) that this will benefit not one collector, but everyone down the road. Also, I know that CORL, an organization that, from my understanding, seems to have the best interests of the residents of these tropical nations at heart, is now trying to work with MAC. I'll be learning more as Mr. King provides information.

I know that there is much information out there, but I am caught up with much of late and experiencing a steep learning curve. Anyone willing to point me in the right direction, or even provide outright answers would have my thanks.

MH
 

MaryHM

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I'm with you. What is an LGU?? What's an FS?? Field secretary?? I dunno. But here are the ones I do know from Ferdie's post:
CDT= Cyanide Detection Test
IMA= International Marinelife Alliance- a non-profit
BFAR= Philippines Bureau of Fisheries- govt. agency
MAC= Marine Aquarium Council- if ya don't know that one by now leave, and never come back :twisted:


As far as who started MAC, I don't know if anyone even knows the real answer anymore, or if they did whether they'd tell you!! I've heard every kind of crazy rumor from the World Wildlife Fund to Jimmy Hoffa. :lol:
 

dizzy

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MaryHM":2keiuyyh said:
As far as who started MAC, I don't know if anyone even knows the real answer anymore, or if they did whether they'd tell you!! I've heard every kind of crazy rumor from the World Wildlife Fund to Jimmy Hoffa. :lol:

Mary, Elwyn Segrest said MAC was the brainchild of Rick Horn of PetsMart. He was wanting netcaught fish for PetsMart to sell. Elwyn was also involved in helping to get the MAC started. It really would be nice to know the whole story. Randy G. thinks it started at a MACNA. Perhaps John can fill us in.

PS I think LGU is Local Government Unit
 

PeterIMA

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The first I heard of the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) when Bruce Bunting of World Wildlife Fund (WWF) showed up at the MACNA meeting in St. Louis Missouri in 1997. He upstaged my efforts to organize trade and hobbyists people participating in the Trade Advisory Group (that I was helping to organize at that time).
This was the meeting where AMDA was also formed by John Tullock. I also met Mr Chaffe who headed a Certication company. Needless to say, the smell of money caused some TAG members to almost immediately jump ship. The first head of MAC was Jaime Resor, who was appointed by Bunting of WWF. A number of meetings were held in Washington and in Baltimore during 1997 that set up the goals of the MAC. It was not incorporated until 1998. Paul Holthus came on board as the head of MAC in 1998 (if I recall correctly). You may be right that Elwin Segrest had a part in it as the Vice-President of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council. You are also right that PetsMart wanted the MAC organization, since they intended to sell marine fish, but wanted to ensure they were green (net-caught). As far as I know, PetsMart has not actively participated on the MAC Board of Directors.

Abbreviation
FS-stands for the MAC Feasability Study conducted during 2001 in the Philippines.

Peter Rubec
 

PeterIMA

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The first I heard of the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) when Bruce Bunting of World Wildlife Fund (WWF) showed up at the MACNA meeting in St. Louis Missouri in 1997. He upstaged my efforts to organize trade and hobbyists people participating in the Trade Advisory Group (that I was helping to organize at that time).
This was the meeting where AMDA was also formed by John Tullock. I also met Mr Chaffe who headed a Certication company. Needless to say, the smell of money caused some TAG members to almost immediately jump ship. The first head of MAC was Jaime Resor, who was appointed by Bunting of WWF. A number of meetings were held in Washington and in Baltimore during 1997 that set up the goals of the MAC. It was not incorporated until 1998. Paul Holthus came on board as the head of MAC in 1998 (if I recall correctly). You may be right that Elwin Segrest had a part in it as the Vice-President of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council. You are also right that PetsMart wanted the MAC organization, since they intended to sell marine fish, but wanted to ensure they were green (net-caught). As far as I know, PetsMart has not actively participated on the MAC Board of Directors.

Abbreviation
FS-stands for the MAC Feasability Study conducted during 2001 in the Philippines.

Peter Rubec
 

John_Brandt

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PeterIMA":ve8axmqt said:
The first I heard of the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) when Bruce Bunting of World Wildlife Fund (WWF) showed up at the MACNA meeting in St. Louis Missouri in 1997.

MACNA VIII 1996 Kansas City, Missouri
MACNA IX 1997 Chicago, Illinois
MACNA X 1998 Long Beach, California

MACNA has never been in St. Louis, Missouri
 
A

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Thank you all for sharing this information. MAC (also being my initials using my maiden name) is about the only acronym I was certain of. (Mary, I'll take a spanking, but I'm not ready to leave ;) ) I am now reading with great interest Horge's input.

I must say again, because of my own experiences working for a large chain I am exceedingly incredulous whenever a corporation has a hand in what must remain an organization free from conflicts of interest. I am now rather surprised that no one seems to really be able to put their finger on who or what actually spawned MAC, though there is clearly documentation/agreement once it got underway.

I've also just read of the dearth of testing for ornamentals, though I cannot say that the Filipino gov't has its priorities wrong, if I were likely to eat a fish possibly exposed to cyanide I'd want that animal to take priority. I will do my own searches and not waste anyone's time explaining just how tissue testing of live ornamentals is performed (if I understood correctly in Horge's other thread).

Again, thank you for offering up the information.

MH
 

PeterIMA

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John, Thanks for the clarification. It was Kansas City Missouri in 1996 not St. Louis Missouri in 1997.

Peter Rubec
 

dizzy

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Seamaiden,
For the record I don't believe PetsMart is part of the MAC. I believe they spawned the idea and then it took on a life of its own.
 

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