Ferdinand Cruz speaker fund

[dizzy]

There must be two sides to every story. Every year I try to do something to help the MACNA. Usually I rent a booth. Sometimes I donate to the auctions. I also buy tee shirts and video tapes. For MACNA XI I offered to pay $1000.00 of the cost to bring Svein Fossa over as a speaker. I made the offer one full year in advance and was quite surprised when LMAS turned it down. This year at MACNA XIV Kelly Jedlicki gave me a form for sponsoring someone at the end of the conference. I believe the cost to sponsor was $2,000.00. I really don't budget my spending that far in advance so I just forgot about.

As it turns out I really don't have $2000.00 but the more I learned about Ferdinand Cruz the more I became interested in hearing him speak. I went to the LMAS site to see the speakers list and it had 15 "confirmed" speakers. Most of the speakers had spoken before so I assumed they were having trouble finding new people of interest. Walt Smith is a good example. He spoke at MACNA XI and last year at MACNA XIV as well. Anyway the word "confirmed" lead me to believe more speakers would be added. I know it has usually been this way for past MACNAs.

I really didn't have any way of knowing if Ferdinand would be willing and available to speak without first asking him. If he couldn't speak there would be no need in bothering LMAS. I didn't know the proper procedure was to contact LMAS first and I just assumed they would love having a speaker of this quality for free. I honestly felt it would be much harder for him to fit the trip into his busy schedule than it would be for LMAS to squeese him in. I am truly sorry I assumed they would want him enough to do that. Please forgive me Mister Spillman.

People the Filipino fisherfolk are probably the most important stakeholder in the entire chain of custody. They deserve to be heard and I hope Ferdie can still come and meet with some of us in smaller groups. This probably wasn't political but it sure is a shame.

Mary would you please post Ferdinand's letter for me. Perhaps a few people will be willing to help Mike and I pay his way over as a non-speaker.
MG

PS Steve Robinson says Ferdie has a most excellent slide show.

 

[mkirda]

Was asked by Mitch to post this, so... without further ado...
*********************************************************
From: Ferdinand Cruz
To: Mitch Gibbs
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: Speaking at MACNA

Dear Mitch,

Yes, it would be an great honor to be one of the speakers in the MACNA. The topic can be on what is really happening in the Philippines and Indonesia when it comes to this trade from the time I joined MAC and made their Collectors Best practices guidelines, did net training, and capacity building for collectors. You can suggest other topics too that would make it more informative for those who will attend the conference.

Not only collectors but also other coastal dwellers hopes and aspirations rely in this industry. I have never seen this industry even for a moment as an enemy as how others paint it to be, but as a partner in environmental and economic concerns. In the past, this industries bad image was a matter of bad presentation and of course bad business ethics of a lot of our exporters. Now, only a very few exporters dare encourage the use of cyanide. I can see in the very near future when all exporters will actively and honestly support non-cyanide use and destructive collection methods instead of just paying lip service. I see too that coastal dwellers and their local government will come to realize that this industry is a real honest partner for their conservation, sustainability, and economic well being. In fact it is starting to happen now in all the sites that I am working in since January this year. The decades of backbreaking work by a lot of people including those in the western world that has constantly supported a change for the better is bearing fruits. The struggle at times has not been peaceful in this part of the world but I have come to accept that as part of the process of change. This change for the better is not an emotional assessment on my part but an assessment back up by years of experience working in the communities and interacting with exporters and government agencies. I see also that Indonesia will follow as fast as they can if they do not want to be left behind. Indonesia has been constantly contacting me to help out. This is why it is exciting.

I am for captive reared animals. I agree with you. There is no conflict in captive rearing and collection in the ocean. But I want captive breeding to be partly done in the developing countries where these exotic animals comes from and for communities to learn how to do it to a certain level within their capacity and capability. In fact I am now looking for several communities in the PI where we can do some field test on this hopefully by next year. I have even encouraged a network of NGOs in Indonesia to start looking into this so much so that they have acquired an old hatchery where we can do some work. As I write this email the Indonesian group I am working with is breaking grounds also for coral farming so that when I get there this month things are somewhat organize. We are doing these things on our own without any outside funding. Communities are involved and contribute the labor force for free. That is what is nice. I know captive rearing is capital intensive but there might be a way to do this in the near future. I do not see it as a competition but a handle for communities to gain more economic freedom. There are still a lot of species that cannot be successfully bred for now so communities with responsible collectors can do well with this too. I do not see any limit to a lot of possibilities in this industry, which is why this industry is so good to work in. The only thing I am careful of is never to put the cart before the horse.

The cart before the horse , is what I felt MAC has been doing. MAC has to change if it wants to be effective. They have to be pragmatic and not be afraid to admit failures. That is what frustrates me with them. They can never admit to failures so much so that after so much effort and wasted money to whitewash their failures they start believing that they have done nothing wrong. They have to listen to all the sectors in the industry too instead of listening only to themselves and most of all they have to be very transparent. If they do not do this they will become another organization that is responsible in setting back the reform that is on the way.

Best Regards,

Ferdinand

 

[John_Brandt]

Also Richard Pyle, Forrest Young and Henry Feddern have spoken about collecting in the field.

John, I'm not familiar with these people. Who are they?

Morris, thanks for your input. Although I would love to see Ferdie speak at MACNA, I understand the position you are in. If there is a speaker cancellation, I think we would all appreciate the chance to bring in Ferdie.

Richard Pyle is one of the pioneering deepwater collectors. He has worked and studied at the Waikiki Aquarium, Hawaii's Bishop Museum and the University of Hawaii. He frequently collaborates with Jack Randall on ichthyological discoveries.

Forrest Young is a tropical fish collector from Marathon Key, Florida. He owns Dynasty Marine.

Henry Feddern is a veteran tropical fish collector, also in the Florida Keys. Henry has done much work with the Florida State Fisheries.

There may have been other "field" persons at MACNAs. When I have some spare time I will search through all of my 14 MACNA guidebooks.


John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[John_Brandt]

Morris,

Welcome to reefs.org and the Industry Forum! Sorry to see you placed in such a difficult position. Thank you for explaining LMAS's position so that there were no confusions.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[mkirda]

There may have been other "field" persons at MACNAs. When I have some spare time I will search through all of my 14 MACNA guidebooks.

John,

I *think* Mary was trying to use field guys in a different sense- collectors in Asian areas, particularly the Philippines and Indonesia, where the bulk of the fish come from. The group of divers you are talking about are well known and well respected, but they are not typical Asian collectors. Correct me if I am wrong, Mary.

Thanks for giving the short bios, John. I knew two of the names well, the third I couldn't place...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Nancy Swart]

Mitch and all,

As a side note, Speaker Sponsorship was set at $2000 mainly to help defray the cost of bringing in International speakers. When MAC sponsored Svein Fossa for MACNA XII in Ft. Lauderdale, airfare ALONE was $2200. Now add hotel, meals and honorarium...

Nancy

 

[MaryHM]

Mike,

You're right on. I don't consider a deep water collector and divers out of the Keys to exactly be field collector representatives for the industry. I did mean people involved in the areas where the serious issues facing the hobby are lived out every day.

 

[dizzy]

Morris,

Welcome to reefs.org and the Industry Forum! Sorry to see you placed in such a difficult position. Thank you for explaining LMAS's position so that there were no confusions.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

John are you appologizing to Morris for putting him in a difficult position? :wink: John I hope you know I was just joking. I'm just not used to seeing you appologize.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Hi all,

Back in 1998 I worked very hard to get an spot in the busy program schedule of MACNA X in Los Angeles. After many e-mails, phone calls and a recommendation from Charles Delbeek (who saw the content of my presentation when I presented it to members of the Waikiki aquarium in Hawaii) to the MACNA X organizers I got included in MACNA X program.

The topic of OVI's presentation was " Collection of Marine Ornamentals in the Philippines". All aspects including social, cultural and economic aspects at community level(fisherfolk level) were covered. I can tell you that despite the fact that english is not my first language my presentation was considered by many attendants as the most informative an important from the complete program.. It was an excellent presentation was the feedback I got from organizers.

However, participants to the conference, were not, interested in knowning the ugly things about this hobby. Mike Kirda, you didn't attend to my presentation because you wanted to attend the other one "Propagation of LPS corals by cutting", as I can see it takes a while to convert an aquarium hobbyist in a responsible one!

My presentation was on Sunday afternoon after the raffle at 4:00pm, when a considerable number of people were gone. Two activities were taking place at the same time. It doesn't work that way.

If you want to have a good impact because of Ferdinand presentation it has to be included in the original program schedule as one of the main speakers. He should be first speaker on the program. Probably, it would be better to get things ready for another occasion.

Are MACNA organizers interested in having this kind of talks in their conferences? The answer I got back in 1998 was NO.

Jaime
OVI

 

[mkirda]

However, participants to the conference, were not, interested in knowning the ugly things about this hobby. Mike Kirda, you didn't attend to my presentation because you wanted to attend the other one "Propagation of LPS corals by cutting", as I can see it takes a while to convert an aquarium hobbyist in a responsible one!

You have a better memory than I have, Jaime, because I don't remember what presentation I went to, if any...
Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[dizzy]

Jaime,
I was there. I agree it was an excellent presentation. I remember you telling us how the fish were crowded together in buckets and sitting in the heat at the exporter facilites, and then shipped out in the same ammonia ladden water. I could tell you had much passion for the work you do. Sometimes we just need to vent our frustrations.

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Hi all,

The industry must pay attention to the real important issues created because of this tarde. I see, that there is a good number of individuals "with credentials" that could work together to make sure that the message is getting through. With MACNA's organizers collaboration it could be possible to have a room to gather all these individulas, including Ferdinand, and develop a working plan to better inform and educate all the stakeholders of the industry in the U.S and Canada about different environmental, social and economical aspects of the trade .

We could figure out an interesting name for this room that could attract participants to come and listen what has to be said.

The problem "we" face is that "we" are not organized. If we get organized, we could have more power and people could listen what we want to say. It could be as simple or as complex as you want.

I am interested in being part of this working group.


Jaime Baquero
OVI

 

[mkirda]

The problem "we" face is that "we" are not organized. If we get organized, we could have more power and people could listen what we want to say. It could be as simple or as complex as you want.

I am interested in being part of this working group.


Jaime Baquero

Jaime,

You can count me in too.

Who has contacts with LMAS? What would it take to get together under MACNA's auspices? Booth? Room? I have absolutely no experience in this aspect, having only attended MACNAs as a hobbyist...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[dizzy]

Jaime, Mike,
We discussed just such an option at the AMDA BOD meeting. Perhaps Steve R. can use his influence to get an AMDA hospitality suite that can be used for this purpose. Also Bruce Davidson of LMAS is an AMDA member so maybe he will help. It could be used to jointly promote AMDA and CORL if the rest agree.

 

[clarionreef]

Mitch,
Actually...a seperate conference for reform in a seperate working room is probably a much better and more effective notion than a speaker/entertainment presentation anyway.
What was the original objective w/ the Funding Ferdie idea?Promote awareness, understanding, reform, unity etc no?
Would that be better served by having Ferdie entertain an audience of reef consumers and hobbyists or a captive audience of reform concerned movers, shakers, players, NGO alphabet characters, prima donnas and what not?
A seperate workshop of most concerned people should be put in a room, lock the door and no food until they hammer out a damn deal that is signed in blood!
All in favor???!!!
Steve Robinson
AMDA president
CORL field hand
Haribon ex- trainer
IMA ex- trainer
BFAR consultant '86,87
Project compassion,trainer
[Marcos era]
local turtle club member

 

[mkirda]

no food

Hey, I at least want food, water and a bathroom break every few hours... LOL.

Otherwise, sounds fabulous!

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

INCENTIVES to put the good of all above the self.
Ya wanna eat? Ya gotta produce!
There must be humbling incentive to serve the greater good. This in contrast to the self serving, opulent "pat your self on the back" style of reform business of the previous decade.
AQUARIUM people can relate and agree on the fundamentals of the mission more easily than less involved NGOs.
Compromises among us and with them can be hammered out in such a peer review type mini forum. It could be the most historic and worthwhile MACNA ever if it facilitates the turning of the corner on all our mutual impasses and road blocks to genuine reform.
Air it out, make peace, produce and eat. All in that order. Steve
PS. A serious, no nonsense, club carrying , moderator-referee is essential

 

[Nancy Swart]

Just a thought guyz, but considering the number of you that will be in attendance, why not just book a "suite" to sleep in. You can then share the expense and stll have a place that's open 24/7 for folks to "brainstorm", etc. Ask the Hotel if you can get some pizza and beer delivered from the outside to keep Mike K. happy or it's probably very reasonable for them to do a sandwich buffet for you. Just a thought...

Nancy

 

[clarionreef]

NANCY,
YOU CAN'T fight all day then sleep together.
Thats what our spouses are for.
Steve
PS. We need a side room that holds 25

 

[Nancy Swart]

If you're ALL fighting ALL DAY LONG then it sounds as tho you have much work to do... 8O

NS