Cyanide target species?

[JennM]

In reading various threads, I see discussed fish that are typically targeted (angels, tangs, triggers) and those that are never targeted (mandarins, firefish etc.)

I'm often asked by hobbyists which fish are targets - I can't always answer them with any certainty. I've got a good general idea, but can somebody draw me a proverbial picture, please?

I'm still in the infancy of my education on this hobby - 16 years into it. Something tells me I will always be in the infancy of my education - even though I learn each day!

Can some of you more learned types detail some of the "typically" cyanide-targeted and non-targeted species?

I've learned which geographical areas to be leery of - but I'd like to hone my knowledge a little bit more.

Thanks in advance,

Jenn

 

[naesco]

Are you looking for which species had the highest cyanide test failure rate as a percentage?
If so, I can quote you some recent statistics from a noted doctor, author and chemist.

 

[Anonymous]

I say lay it on us, naes. Any bit of information helps.

 

[JennM]

Are you looking for which species had the highest cyanide test failure rate as a percentage?
If so, I can quote you some recent statistics from a noted doctor, author and chemist.

Sure that will help, but I'm also very interested in what the people on the 'front lines' have to say about their experiences and what they have seen.

Charts and graphs are nice, but as has been discussed in other threads, there are ways to "piss away the evidence" as was so eloquently stated - so I'd like to know at the collector level, which species are typically targeted and which ones aren't.

Jenn

 

[MaryHM]

Peter just sent me an article about cyanide. Here is the list of target species from that article. The full article will be posted at www.reefsource.com in a few days.

Identification Illustration
Family: Labridae Species: Cheilinus undulatus * Common names: Humphead, Maori, Napoleon Wrasse
Family: Serranidae Species : Cromileptis altivelis Common names: Panther Grouper, Barramundi Cod, Polkadot Grou Species: Cephalopholis argus Common names: Peacock Grouper, Peacock Hind Species:Cephalophis. miniatus Common names: Coral Trout, Coral Hind Species: Epinephalus sexifasciatus Common names: Species: Epinephalus coeruleopunctatus Common names:White-spotted Grouper Species:Epinephalus ongus: Common names:White-streaked Grouper Species: Epinephalus malabaricus Common names:Malabar Grouper Specieslectropomus leopardus Common names: Leopard Grouper
Family Lutjanidae Species: Lutjanus bohar Common name: Red Mumea Species: Lutjanus carponotatus Common name: Striped Snapper Species: Lutjanus decussates Species: Lutjanus fulviflammus Common name: Golden Snapper Common name: Checkered Snapper Species: Lutjanus gibbus Common name: Humpback Snapper
Family Acanthuridae Species: Acanthurus lineatus Common name:Clown Surgeonfish Species: Acanthurus olivaceus Common name: Shoulder Tang Species: Acanthurus nigricauda Common name:Brown-eared Surgeonfish Species: Acanthurus xanthopterus Common name: Purple Surgeonfish Species: Ctenochaetus striatus Common name: Striped Bristletooth
Family Pomacentridae Species: Amphiprion chrysogaster Common name: Orange-fin Clownfish Species: Dascyllus flavicauda Common name: Yellow-tailed Dascyllus
Family Pomacanthidae Species: Centropyge flavicauda Common name: White-tail Pygmy Angelfish Species: Pomacanthus imperator Common name: Emperor Angelfish Species: Pomacanthus xanthometapon Common name: Blueface Angelfish Species: Pygoplites diacanthus Common name: Regal Angelfish Species: Chaetodontoplus melanosoma Common name: Black Velvet Angelfish, Gray Poma Angelfish Species: Geniacanthus lamarck Common name: Lamarck’s Angelfish
Family Balistidae Species: Balistoides conspicillum Common name: Clown Triggerfish Species: Melichthys niger Common name: Black Triggerfish Species: Odonus niger Common name:Redtooth Triggerfish
Family Nemipteridae Species: Nemipterus mesoprion Common name: Redfilament Threadfin Bream

 

[John_Brandt]

Mary,

Who compiled that list? It's rather strange.

Why is one species of anemonefish on the cyanide target list? Why are so many scientific names misspelled?

Inquiring minds want to know.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[MaryHM]

I don't know who compiled it, but like I stated earlier Peter sent it to me and the full article will be available in a couple of days. Why don't you post MAC's list? I assume they are the world's authority on what is/isn't cyanide caught. Looking forward to it.

 

[John_Brandt]

I don't know who compiled it, but like I stated earlier Peter sent it to me and the full article will be available in a couple of days. Why don't you post MAC's list? I assume they are the world's authority on what is/isn't cyanide caught. Looking forward to it.

Mary,

MAC's hypothetical list has nothing to do with the list you are about to post on your site. Stop playing games Mary. Why would you want to post a weird list on your site?

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[naesco]

Jenn the following is an excerpt from a chart in a paper written by the noted Canadian author and scientist, Dr. Peter Rubec, on Cyanide and Ornamental Fish based on testing which was done from 1997 to 1999

tangs 44%
squirrels 43%
triggers 34%
cardinals 33%
angels 29%
scorpions 29%
sweetlips 28%
wrasses 22%
butterflys 21%
damsals 19%
blennies 19%
parrots 12%

It pains me to have to report these statistics. Those who participate in cyanide in the industry are nothing short of criminals.
The use of cyanide must stop now.

 

[John_Brandt]

Peter just sent me an article about cyanide. Here is the list of target species from that article. The full article will be posted at www.reefsource.com in a few days.

Identification Illustration
Family: Labridae Species: Cheilinus undulatus * Common names: Humphead, Maori, Napoleon Wrasse
Family: Serranidae Species : Cromileptis altivelis Common names: Panther Grouper, Barramundi Cod, Polkadot Grou Species: Cephalopholis argus Common names: Peacock Grouper, Peacock Hind Species:Cephalophis. miniatus Common names: Coral Trout, Coral Hind Species: Epinephalus sexifasciatus Common names: Species: Epinephalus coeruleopunctatus Common names:White-spotted Grouper Species:Epinephalus ongus: Common names:White-streaked Grouper Species: Epinephalus malabaricus Common names:Malabar Grouper Specieslectropomus leopardus Common names: Leopard Grouper
Family Lutjanidae Species: Lutjanus bohar Common name: Red Mumea Species: Lutjanus carponotatus Common name: Striped Snapper Species: Lutjanus decussates Species: Lutjanus fulviflammus Common name: Golden Snapper Common name: Checkered Snapper Species: Lutjanus gibbus Common name: Humpback Snapper
Family Acanthuridae Species: Acanthurus lineatus Common name:Clown Surgeonfish Species: Acanthurus olivaceus Common name: Shoulder Tang Species: Acanthurus nigricauda Common name:Brown-eared Surgeonfish Species: Acanthurus xanthopterus Common name: Purple Surgeonfish Species: Ctenochaetus striatus Common name: Striped Bristletooth
Family Pomacentridae Species: Amphiprion chrysogaster Common name: Orange-fin Clownfish Species: Dascyllus flavicauda Common name: Yellow-tailed Dascyllus
Family Pomacanthidae Species: Centropyge flavicauda Common name: White-tail Pygmy Angelfish Species: Pomacanthus imperator Common name: Emperor Angelfish Species: Pomacanthus xanthometapon Common name: Blueface Angelfish Species: Pygoplites diacanthus Common name: Regal Angelfish Species: Chaetodontoplus melanosoma Common name: Black Velvet Angelfish, Gray Poma Angelfish Species: Geniacanthus lamarck Common name: Lamarck’s Angelfish
Family Balistidae Species: Balistoides conspicillum Common name: Clown Triggerfish Species: Melichthys niger Common name: Black Triggerfish Species: Odonus niger Common name:Redtooth Triggerfish
Family Nemipteridae Species: Nemipterus mesoprion Common name: Redfilament Threadfin Bream

AN EDUCATED HOBBYIST DEMANDS REASON, MEANINGFUL LISTS AND PROPERLY SPELLED SCIENTIFIC NAMES. SAY NO TO VANILLA!

 

[MaryHM]

Wow John. If your biggest battle in this thread is over some mispelled scientific names, then I feel bad for you. Is this what it's come to? A spelling bee?? "He who spells best has the clean fish"?? Geez. I expect more. Someone asked for a list. I was emailed a list. I posted the list.

Now, on to that hypothetical MAC list. If MAC is claiming to be ridding the industry of cyanide use, then they must know which species are the main targets of their fervor. I mean, you don't start a certification program without having a clue as to which species are in most dire need of certification, do you?? So anyway, this list must exist. I can't imagine MAC would start a cyanide eradication program without doing research on what is caught with cyanide. All I'm asking is to either provide us with the list or if one doesn't exist let us know. I'm much more interested in seeing MAC's list than discussing proper spelling and grammar.

 

[PeterIMA]

John, I compiled the list from IMA's CTD datebase (which is comprised of data for about 970 species of fish and some macroinvertebrates). I am interested to know which scientific names that you believeare not spelled correctly. It is possible that I copied the scientific name over incorrectly. The IMA staff used books like Randall's FAO guide to the groupers, and the Marine Atlas by Burgess (TFH) to identify the species tested for cyanide at the laboratories from 1993 to 2001. Overall, I did not see many (if any) species names not spelled correctly in the database.

Peter Rubec

 

[John_Brandt]

John, I compiled the list from IMA's CTD datebase (which is comprised of data for about 970 species of fish and some macroinvertebrates). I am interested to know which scientific names that you believeare not spelled correctly. It is possible that I copied the scientific name over incorrectly. The IMA staff used books like Randall's FAO guide to the groupers, and the Marine Atlas by Burgess (TFH) to identify the species tested for cyanide at the laboratories from 1993 to 2001. Overall, I did not see many (if any) species names not spelled correctly in the database.

Peter Rubec

Identification Illustration
Family: Labridae Species: Cheilinus undulatus * Common names: Humphead, Maori, Napoleon Wrasse
Family: Serranidae Species : Cromileptis altivelis Common names: Panther Grouper, Barramundi Cod, Polkadot Grou Species: Cephalopholis argus Common names: Peacock Grouper, Peacock Hind Species:Cephalophis. miniatus Common names: Coral Trout, Coral Hind Species: Epinephalus sexifasciatus Common names: Species: Epinephalus coeruleopunctatus Common names:White-spotted Grouper Species:Epinephalus ongus: Common names:White-streaked Grouper Species: Epinephalus malabaricus Common names:Malabar Grouper Specieslectropomus leopardus Common names: Leopard Grouper
Family Lutjanidae Species: Lutjanus bohar Common name: Red Mumea Species: Lutjanus carponotatus Common name: Striped Snapper Species: Lutjanus decussates Species: Lutjanus fulviflammus Common name: Golden Snapper Common name: Checkered Snapper Species: Lutjanus gibbus Common name: Humpback Snapper
Family Acanthuridae Species: Acanthurus lineatus Common name:Clown Surgeonfish Species: Acanthurus olivaceus Common name: Shoulder Tang Species: Acanthurus nigricauda Common name:Brown-eared Surgeonfish Species: Acanthurus xanthopterus Common name: Purple Surgeonfish Species: Ctenochaetus striatus Common name: Striped Bristletooth
Family Pomacentridae Species: Amphiprion chrysogaster Common name: Orange-fin Clownfish Species: Dascyllus flavicauda Common name: Yellow-tailed Dascyllus
Family Pomacanthidae Species: Centropyge flavicauda Common name: White-tail Pygmy Angelfish Species: Pomacanthus imperator Common name: Emperor Angelfish Species: Pomacanthus xanthometapon Common name: Blueface Angelfish Species: Pygoplites diacanthus Common name: Regal Angelfish Species: Chaetodontoplus melanosoma Common name: Black Velvet Angelfish, Gray Poma Angelfish Species: Geniacanthus lamarck Common name: Lamarck’s Angelfish
Family Balistidae Species: Balistoides conspicillum Common name: Clown Triggerfish Species: Melichthys niger Common name: Black Triggerfish Species: Odonus niger Common name:Redtooth Triggerfish
Family Nemipteridae Species: Nemipterus mesoprion Common name: Redfilament Threadfin Bream

Peter,

Really the question should not be "Which are spelled incorrectly?", but rather it should be "Which are spelled correctly?"

I will work this way: Incorrect spelling = correct spelling.

1) Cromileptis = Cromileptes
2) Polkadot grou species = Polkadot grouper species
3) Cephalopholis. miniatus = Cephalopholis miniata
4) Epinephalus (4 instances) = Epinephelus
5) Epinephalus sexifasciatus = I think you mean Cephalopholis sexmaculata
6) Lutjanus decussates = Lutjanus decussatus
7) Lutjanus fulviflammus = Lutjanus fulviflamma
8 Dascyllus flavicauda = Dascyllus flavicaudus
9) Geniacanthus lamark = Genicanthus lamarki

Peter, you stick to cyanide detection testing and I'll stick to fish. We'll make a great team :wink:

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[Anonymous]

Mary,

Who compiled that list? It's rather strange.

Why is one species of anemonefish on the cyanide target list? Why are so many scientific names misspelled?

Inquiring minds want to know.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

john

is your question intended to suggest that no clowns should be on that list, or that more than one should be?

 

[John_Brandt]

My question was posed because I am under the strong impression that anemonefishes are not caught with cyanide.

I was hoping for an answer. I would accept that they are caught that way if I am given a good explanation.

 

[Anonymous]

hmm

i'm trying to find out too-since my impression was that they were, and have relayed info as such

but i also want to make sure
:wink:

 

[John_Brandt]

At Batasan Island they catch at least 4 (I think 6) species of clowns using only nets.

I think it's a matter of putting a net on either side of an anemone, bringing the nets together across the anemone, and then counting your prizes.

I can imagine some clowns bolting from the anemone and into the reef, but this would seem to come after failed attempts to snatch them right out of the tentacles.

 

[PeterIMA]

John, The explanation is simple. Aquarium fish collectors using cyanide use it on all species they encounter. While, it may be easy to capture clown fish with nets, they are often caught with cyanide because the collectors don't have nets, don't use nets, and use the same tool (a cyanide squirt bottle) on all the fish they wish to collect.

However, there are other collectors using nets (some of whom are MAC Certified). I would agree with Steve Robinson, that there is no need to use cyanide to capture any species of marine aquarium fish. With the right training and the right kinds of nets, all species desired by the trade can be captured with nets. I also believe that an experienced net-collector can collect more individual fish and more species than the cyanide collector.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

Peter

can you state w/certainty that there are clownfish coming in from the phillipines that have been caught with cyanide?

tia

 

[John_Brandt]

Peter,

You are suggesting that fishers go out with nothing other than a squirt bottle and their bare hands? That means they must squirt each fish into near-total stupor so that they can grab it with their hands?