What makes this hobby the last chance the reefs have.......

[Kalkbreath]

People protect what they love,.........if people get to know the ocean and the wonderful creatures that live there, they are more likely to care and save the seas. Our hobby is one of they few chances the average person has to first hand experience the reefs. We should use our hobby to teach [the rest of the public} that, each day the individual choices we make .....in what we eat, how we shop , even where we poop........inturn has a great effect on the reefs and the wonderful creatures that live there. The small impact this hobby's collection has on the reefs is out weighed by the huge part this hobby CAN play in getting the puplic to give a damn about the health of the reefs. When hobby leaders solely focus on issues like giant clam import numbers, stony coral collection or seashores pets............without informing the listeners of the more urgent and important issues ..........they are waisting valuble time ..... I understand the idea of "its the thought that counts" ......BUT THE CREATURES OF THE REEFS DONT UNDERSTAND ............................................................................. Let me offer an example of what I mean by misdirected concern...........In Florida, the reefs in the Keys are clearly in declining health. The day that sewage stops leaking into the sea is ......well, lets just say its not too high on the things to do list by residents living and pooping in the Keys.. In fact I can vacation in the Keys and take as many dumps in the hotel toilet as I wish...... I can even {by some accounts} later that day, swim with my fecal matter out over the reef. The state of Florida has placed no limit on the number of visits to the bath room I wish to partake in a twenty four hour period.............Yet the state has placed a "limit" on the number of soft coral Gorgonia I can "take" within a Twenty four hour period? .......................................Clearly a "NO TAKE RULE" would have a greater impact if it applied to TAKING A DUMP then the rule on TAKING SEAFANS! I ,as a hobbyists and a concerned person for the heath of the reefs .....I would have little complaints if the state of Florida required EVERY SINGLE PERSON living and even visiting the Keys.........to be required to defecate in a portable toilet {porta potty} This would enable all human fecal matter to be disposed of over the mainland and not over the dying coral ! This single restriction would have a greater impact on the health of the reefs.......... .then every rule on hobby collecting could ever have on the health of the reefs in Fla.[ Disagree?}
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Carpal Tunnel Syndrome Forum

 

[PeterIMA]

Kalk, Bascally, I agree with your posting about the Florida Keys. There is a serious pollution problem. Your posting seems to imply that fecal material is being flushed directly into the ocean. Actually, there are septic tanks. But, there is evidence that bacteria and possibly viruse of human origin are passing into the ocean from the septic tanks. So, I agree that the hobby is not to blame for this. However, having harvest limits (numbers and size limits) is still worthwhile.

We have to recognize that different agencies (federal, state, and municipal) deal with pollution (eg. FDEP, USEPA). The Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary (FKNMS) is managed jointly by the Florida Dept. of Environmental Protection (FDEP) and NOAA. Fish and Fisheries comes under the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council and possibly the South Atlantic Fisheries Management Council. Getting agencies to work together in an integrated manner to deal with problems like habitat protection, fisheries, and pollution can be difficult.


Peter Rubec

 

[PeterIMA]

Kalk, Bascally, I agree with your posting about the Florida Keys. There is a serious pollution problem. Your posting seems to imply that fecal material is being flushed directly into the ocean. Actually, there are septic tanks. But, there is evidence that bacteria and possibly viruse of human origin are passing into the ocean from the septic tanks. So, I agree that the hobby is not to blame for this. However, having harvest limits (numbers and size limits) is still worthwhile.

We have to recognize that different agencies (federal, state, and municipal) deal with pollution (eg. FDEP, USEPA). The Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary (FKNMS) is managed jointly by the Florida Dept. of Environmental Protection (FDEP) and NOAA. Fish and Fisheries comes under the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) and the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Management Council and possibly the South Atlantic Fisheries Management Council. Getting agencies to work together in an integrated manner to deal with problems like habitat protection, fisheries, and pollution can be difficult.


Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

Your posting seems to imply that fecal material is being flushed directly into the ocean. Actually, there are septic tanks. But, there is evidence that bacteria and possibly viruse of human origin are passing into the ocean from the septic tanks. Peter Rubec

Peter, are you aware of the recent journal article by Gene Shinn. In it, he uses rare earth isotopes (because radioactive ones are increasingly more difficult to work with) and traces the movement of contaminants from a septic system to the surrounding channels in the Keys. He finds that the average turnover is only 4 hours! In other words, defecating and then flushing potentially sends nutrients out to the nearshore waters in less than a day! Microbes may have a harder time passing thru the FL lime, but virsues are a bit smaller. This is supported by the fact that every summer, the FL Health Dept. has to post fecal coliform warnings at most public beaches, in including Anne's Beach 20 Mi south of Key Largo.

Anways, I think the proposed conversion to sewage treatment can aid in some of the nutrient problems, although I fear it too little too late.

 

[Anonymous]

Here was a similar proposal of his for the study, I'm having a hard time finding the paper and results on the web for you to see. Especially with the septic information.


http://sofia.usgs.gov/proposals/1999/grseepagep99.html

 

[Kalkbreath]

Your posting seems to imply that fecal material is being flushed directly into the ocean. Actually, there are septic tanks. But, there is evidence that bacteria and possibly viruse of human origin are passing into the ocean from the septic tanks. Peter Rubec

Peter, are you aware of the recent journal article by Gene Shinn. In it, he uses rare earth isotopes (because radioactive ones are increasingly more difficult to work with) and traces the movement of contaminants from a septic system to the surrounding channels in the Keys. He finds that the average turnover is only 4 hours! In other words, defecating and then flushing potentially sends nutrients out to the nearshore waters in less than a day! Microbes may have a harder time passing thru the FL lime, but virsues are a bit smaller. This is supported by the fact that every summer, the FL Health Dept. has to post fecal coliform warnings at most public beaches, in including Anne's Beach 20 Mi south of Key Largo.

Anways, I think the proposed conversion to sewage treatment can aid in some of the nutrient problems, although I fear it too little too late.

THANK YOU .........DR. Reef
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Honda CB350

 

[PeterIMA]

Kalk,

Thanks for the update concerning Dr. Shinn's reseach concerning bacterial and viruses entering the oceanfrom septic tanks near the Florida Keys. I have not read his scientific papers, just press articles (in the St. Petersburg Times).

In my other life, I am a Fisheries Research Scientist at the Florida Fish & Wildlife Consevation Commission, Florida Marine Research Institute (FMRI). FMRI is listed as a collaborating agency with Dr. Shinn's work. My research at FMRI presently is related to fish habitat modeling in Florida estuaries rather than the Florida Keys.

Dr. Peter Rubec

 

[Chucker]

Peter, methinks you should be thanking Dr. Reef.

 

[dizzy]

Chucker is right When it comes to talking crap Dr. Reef is the expert :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

HEY! I pride myself on accidental praise................. also I was talking crap at least two posts befor Dr. Reef!

"I can even {by some accounts} later that day, swim with my fecal matter out over the reef. "{ end my quote}
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Honda Elite E

 

[PeterIMA]

To Chucker and Dizzy, I stand corrected. I guess I assumed that if it was "c...p" and campe from Georgia it had to be Kalk. It is hard to believe that two people can sound so much the same.

Peter

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the update concerning Dr. Shinn's reseach concerning bacterial and viruses entering the oceanfrom septic tanks near the Florida Keys. I have not read his scientific papers, just press articles (in the St. Petersburg Times).

Peter, just a quick clarification here. I'm not sure that Gene has done anything following bacterial or virus transmission thru the FL lime, he has focused more on groundwater transmission to reefs and associated nutrient transport.

Following Jim Porter and Katie Patterson's work last fall about the spread of white pox on A. palmata, they have assembled a larger team with better funding in the attempt to try and identify the specific source of the Serratia marcescens bacteria. I think they have a difficult task ahead of them, and I hope that they are able to tease out more precisely the origin of this disease causing agent in order to facilitate the sewage conversion of the keys.

-Brian

 

[PeterIMA]

Brian (Dr. Reef), Thank you for the informative update concerning the research by Dr. Shinn concerning the diseases/bacteria transport and effects on corals. I apologize for confusion with repect to your identity on my part.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

No sweat. Kalk is a local retailer, very outspoken, probably has good intentions, but doesn't really believe the doom and gloom that surrounds much of the current reef research these days.

I am out of UGA, having just completed my M.S. in conservation with Fitt and Porter and will be entering the doctoral program this fall. I try to keep abreast of the happenings in FL and the Keys since much of our work takes place down there and since I spent months down there working on phosphate dynamics in nearshorewaters.

-Brian

 

[JennM]

To Chucker and Dizzy, I stand corrected. I guess I assumed that if it was "c...p" and campe from Georgia it had to be Kalk. It is hard to believe that two people can sound so much the same.

Peter

Hold the Roto Rooter!!!

Not everybody in GA is full o'crap.... :lol:

And that's all I have to say 'bout that.

Jenn

 

[Kalkbreath]

No sweat. Kalk is a local retailer, very outspoken, probably has good intentions, but doesn't really believe the doom and gloom that surrounds much of the current reef research these days.

-Brian

I understand quite well what is causing the death of the reefs in the keys.{and just like the reefs in the rest of the world, it aint the collection for the hobby,now is it?}
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us recession

 

[PeterIMA]

Jenn, Again, please accept my apology for anything I may have said about Georgia.

Peter

 

[JennM]

Jenn, Again, please accept my apology for anything I may have said about Georgia.

Peter

Hahaha no offence taken Besides, I'm not from around here :lol:

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Gene Shinn just received some pretty high accolades.

Gene Shinn Wins 2002 Shoemaker Award for Distinguished Achievement in Communications

http://soundwaves.usgs.gov/2003/03/awards.html

 

[Anonymous]

And there he is in the article with the model that illustrates exactly what we were discussing above!