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Mike King

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Here is my long awaited report of the Philippine Trip it differs a little in content from what was posted on MAC's web site.

Talofa,
I've landed safely in American Samoa, I'm sorry that I couldn't give this project update as soon as I returned from the Philippines but with CORL (the Coalition of Reef Lovers) receiving its 501-c-3 status there was just way too much to do before I headed down here. Since I arrived here I have been very busy either working for the American Samoan Department of Marine and Wildlife Resources or getting my home put together. Unfortunately things were thrown way out of schedule with the death of American Samoa's Governor Tauese P.F. Sunia who was also a friend to me. I shall miss his humor and long stories greatly, along with his "Hey Mike How's the reef doing today?" & stop byes while working on Rainmaker reef.

I'm posting the report here on reefs.org along with a short update later on what CORL is doing here and in several other countries. I hope to have my Internet access installed within a few days now (I'm in American Samoa where Island time is applied to its fullest extent) and as soon as I'm hooked up I'll be back on the chat channels. It took 5 weeks but I'm back on line!!!!!!

Well here are my findings I'm going to be straightforward with what I saw and what I think about the work that the Marine Aquarium Council is doing in the Philippines.

On the 15th of April 2003 I traveled to the Philippines as the representative of CORL to observe the work that is being done by the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC), local governmental units, and the collectors in creating sustainable fisheries in the Batasan and other areas. This trip was to help inform CORL to better understand how the MAC Certified Area Management Programs ( CAMP)s are set up and how they will interact with the Local Governmental units (LGU)s Coastal Resources Management Program (CRMP). The CAMPs and sustainable fisheries that they will form are a small part of the Philippine and Local Governmental Units (LGU)s Coastal Resource Management Programs and their goal of sustainable resource use.
This trip was made possible by the Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) and is to start looking at the possibility of creating a working partnership between CORL and the MAC to work on the common goal of sustainability for the Philippines and its people. During the trip we had a chance to meet with Atty. Malcom Sarmiento the head of the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) and I'm glad to announce that CORL will be helping the Philippine government with Coral farming for coral reef restoration in the very near future. I also presented Director Sarmiento with CORLs proposal for self supportive coastal resource management and told him that I'd start working on a proposal tailored for the Philippines.

The environmental movement in the Philippines is gathering momentum but the amount of damage from destructive fishing and pollution has and continues to cause considerable amounts of damage.
In many areas a sustainable marine ornamental fishery will not be possible for but a hand-full of fish species (if at all) even with corrective measures it could take years to recover other lost fisheries.
This holds very true for the reefs and fisheries in the Batasan Certified Area Management Plan (CAMP) area (for more information on the CAMPs see the MAC web site). Of the 500+ marine species that are collected for the Marine Ornamental Industry, the areas around Batasan Island only produce 20-25 species today, in the past the number of collectable aquarium species in the Batasan area numbered over 150. One of the most apparent missing species is the herbivore fish like Tangs, Surgeonfish and Rabbitfish that play an important role of algae control on the reefs. Because of destructive and over-fishing of these species the natural populations of these fish have all but disappeared from the collection area we observed. This and the high nutrient loads from the Islands population is causing a overgrowth of algae in some areas and is choking out many of the remaining corals leading to the continued degradation of the coral reef habitats.

The question that has been asked about this area is, if the Batasan Island area is a lost cause and should it even have been considered to be a MAC certified area?
Batasan Island is a part of Tobigon a local governmental unit of the providence of Bohol Island in the central Philippines. Bohol is a very peaceful island where the communities seem more willing to preserve and protect what's left of their natural resources. When the Philippine government set forth its Coastal Resources Management program it offered an award to the Providence and LGUs that developed the best Coastal resources management program (CRMP) of the many Providences that submitted CRMPs Bohol's was chosen to be the best. Tobigon's may have received an award also, this I'm not sure of, but I did have the chance to quickly review their CRMP and it seemed complete and well written. Upon reviewing other CAMPs I'd have to say the it could use more work especially in the fish surveys and ecosystem analysis areas. The CAMPs that MAC requires for certification are just a part of any CRMP. Having a good CRMP in an area will help greatly in the creation, implementation, and certification of any area seeking to become MAC certified.
I think that it was because of the well-done CRMP that was already in place that helped led to the quick MAC certification of the Batasan Island. In areas such as the Camotes islands where no CRMP has been done the CAMPs may take a longer amount of time. These areas without CRMPs will need the help from outside sources such as the MAC and CORL to help them prepare their CRMP and CAMPS if they are to be certified.
Lino Alvarez told me that Batasan Island is just one of the 18 marine ornamental collection areas chosen as priority candidates for certification. The 18 areas, which include major collection sites in Palawan and Mindanao, were chosen on the basis of their ability to provide the species mix needed by the industry. Batasan Island and most collection areas in Bohol are noted for their abundant supply of green mandarin, maroon clown and chelmon. (chelmon is the copperband butterfly) The tangs, butterflys and expensive angels are expected to come from other areas like Palawan. It just so happens that Batasan Island and the ornamental collectors there were able to meet the requirements of the MAC certification ahead of all others. There is reason for optimism though that the other candidate collection areas will be able to make the grade in the matter of months and that should result in more variety and volume of certified fish flowing into the system.

As with any resource management plan, MAC, the collectors and community must understand that the CRMPs need to evolve and change with time. The CAMP must also be constantly updated to address any problems as they arise, it is not something written into paper and then filed and implemented as is, but rather it needs to be a living evolving project like the living resources themselves. The community must support the CAMP just like it supports its CRMP. If the community does this there can be a reversal of the degradation of the areas coastal habitats and recovery can happen in time.

So is Batasan a lost cause? I think not, the community there is becoming very environmentally aware and MAC's work is helping by bringing about more of the needed community involvement. Should have the Bastasan area been chosen as a MAC site seeing that it is so degraded and offers such a low amount of species availability. My answer is a yes, even though the number of species is low those species being collected are being managed using area rotation and harvest limits, this helps assure that they are being managed in a sustainable way.

One problem that will arise soon will be that the number of species that can live in the degraded habitat areas is very limited and as more of these degraded areas become certified there will be too many of these species being collected for the MOI. This could lead to a dangerous situation where the prices of those net caught fish fall below that of those collected outside of the MAC areas. To be a collector or take part in any sector of the Marine Ornamental Trade one must be able to offer variety along with quality to assure success. Twenty to thirty species is fine for a handful of collection areas but when there's 100 or more areas producing the same fish for the market a surplus will happen. If the community takes the initiative to correct the degrading problems the species diversity will increase as the habitats condition improves, but to assure success new management skills will be needed so self supporting populations will be established. Habitat restoration, Marine Protected Areas (MPAs) , Marine Resource Management Areas (MRMAs) and rotational harvest areas will be crucial for the rehabilitation of degraded habitat. The lack of herbivorous fish may have to be addressed by using planktonic capture and rearing of larvae from areas outside of the region for release in areas where algae control is needed. As always the Anthropogenic stresses must be addressed and corrective measures taken along with the habitat rehabilitation.

Another problem I saw at the exporter facilities was the collection of large high value fish such as the Blue-faced angelfish. Far to many of the breeder age fish are being taken off the reefs, a maximum size limit needs to be imposed along with catch limits to assure that the brood stock continues to exist.

While swimming with the collectors I did notice several Marine Ornamental (MO) fish species that were marketable but not collected. When I asked about why they didn't collect those species I was told that some were because they would not survive long enough to sell; and some because they had no value; (the exporters didn't want them). While some species are too delicate to withstand the collecting, handling and shipping processes the value given to others is an exporters condition. Many desirable wrasses were seen within the collection areas but not collected as they had little value and the exporters didn't want them. These same wrasses from different areas in the Pacific are being net caught and the collectors are making good wages from their sales to exporters it should be the same case for the collectors in the Philippines. Delicate species such as the arrow cardinal fish could be explored as marketable products and handling difficulties solved so the collectors can diversify the species they currently catch.

The fish at collected in Batasan are held in perforated plastic jars which let water flow through them in floating cages away from the polluted near shore area. The fish from each collector are kept separated in open mesh bags to also allow water to easily pass through. This does provide some opportunity for the fish to feed upon floating plankton but it is minimal and fish will still suffer weight loss and increased disease susceptibility if held for too long under these conditions. This method of holding fish is a great improvement over the old methods of on shore bag holding for both the fish and the collectors as it greatly reduces the amount of needed labor and fish loss. The amount of money saved from the decrease in mortality and reduction of labor does offset the cost of record keeping and tracking of the fish, I can't say it covers the new added cost but it does defiantly help. A comparison study of areas using on shore bag holding methods and the offshore holding areas should be conducted as the added cost of record keeping for the collectors has been brought up by some of the primary stakeholders.

One problem the collectors brought up was the lack of the perforated plastic jars and covers. This shortage can easily be solved by contacting workers at the recycling centers near Manila (there is a whole community there whose livelihood is centered on the refuse created). The reclamation of these plastic waste products would provide them with additional income and the plastic jars can be salvaged at a very low cost. The same people who salvage them can clean them and add the needed holes for water circulation
Another readily available item that can be used is water bottles, the type of plastic which is used in their production has a great memory for its molded shape. By perforating the water bottles with holes and adding an entry cut it is very easy to put fish in and to empty them out. An added plus is the neck of all bottles is indented so a line can be easily attached and a string of bottles can be created. This method has been used for years in the Solomon Islands with very good results. Larger water bottles can also be easily obtained from the waste produced for larger fish also. The using of such materials also helps in waste and marine trash reduction.

The lack of proper netting has been an issue for some time, to assure that the collectors use only nets to catch fish we must provide them with the tools they need. Thanks to the generous donations of the American Marinelife Dealers Association (AMDA) and several individuals the missing hand netting material is now being distributed. This is great news but another problem is developing, because of the increase in barrier style net mesh size that is being imposed by many countries for food fish collection the smaller mesh sizes are no longer being produced by companies. It is these smaller mesh sizes that are needed for the collection of Marine Ornamental fish. I was shown a sample of barrier netting being made for one exporter for her collectors it was constructed out of woven nylon and knotted while this net should prove very durable it may cause damage to fish by entanglement especially those with sharp dorsal spines or gill spikes. The monofilament barrier nets will still entangle fish and cause some net bruising and other injuries but when taught properly the collectors can minimize the problems. Cast cell netting is becoming available but it lacks the needed flexibility.

While visiting the Philippines I had the chance to speak to the community leaders in Tobigon about what they thought about the MAC certification program at Batasan Island and how they thought it would help their community. Of all those interviewed it was totally agreed upon that the MAC certification was a welcome program and in time it would help them obtain the level of sustainability they were striving to reach for the future of the community. The community leaders perceived the CAMPs being created as a important part of their CRMPs and stated that they wished to expand upon what was already done by creating more collection areas within their LGUs using the methods set by the MAC standards. While on Bohol I was also invited to talk to the leaders at Clarin the second MAC certified area just north of Tobigon. While the MAC certification area and collectors were just graduating from the MAC program the community leaders were very supportive of the MAC program and were very proud to be the second MAC certified collection area. I video taped this interview and it will be available in the near future along with the graduation ceremony after I finish the editing. All in all the community again showed a high level of support for the MAC program and the graduating collectors. Participating in the ceremony were community leaders from all levels of government, children dancing for intermissions, and most importantly the collectors themselves and the elected officials of their collectors association. During the pledge they gave I panned my camera to the faces of those graduates, in their eyes I could see the determination to succeed in what they had undertaken, and I truly believe that their children will have a better future because of their actions. We must remember however that these collectors and their communities will need continued support, certification and graduation isn't a final objective but rather just a beginning, time will be the ultimate judge on the success or failure of the certified areas and collectors. They still have many problems to overcome if true sustainability is to be achieved and will need support from Government and non-governmental sources for many years to come to reduce the stresses upon their reefs and to restore the lost fisheries.

The last collection area I visited was San Francisco in the Camotes Islands. Over 100 collectors are in the process of starting the MAC certification process there. Unfortunately because of territorial disputes they have been left out of any LGUs CRMP this creates a bit of a problem with any certification of the area. In the Camotes MAC will have to be the leader in helping the community not only set up MAC's CAMPs but also to help where they can in setting up the foundation for the CRMP that will be needed. The certification of Camotes is very possible but it may take a bit longer and require a higher amount of input from all parties involved. Lino Alvarez has updated me with Camotes progress reports and states that the MAC CAMP is proceeding very well and that it is helping the Camotes lay the foundation for the development of the Coastal Resources Management Program.
The area still has very good water conditions and there are a few high value marketable fish species like the Majestic angelfish and Harlequin tusk in the area but again blast fishing and cyanide fishing has taken a drastic toll on the surrounding reefs. Many of the ornamental fish collectors still use cyanide to capture the high-end fish and any fish regardless of size is fair game to them.
Some may say that MAC's choice of Camotes was a mistake, but what they will learn there will help them develop their certification program to fill the needs of many such communities. I can guarantee Camotes will not be the last area with no CRMP, for there are many such poorer communities in the Philippines who will ask for MAC's help in the near future. I think they made a good choice, for what they will learn there will give them much insight for the many similar situations they will encounter in the future.

When the community leaders in San Francisco found out that CORL was my organization and was involved with coral reef restoration they asked if I (CORL) would help them start a coral farm for reef restoration there. I told them yes and that I'd be back in July of 2003 to get things started. I'm looking forward to that return trip to see how MAC is progressing in this area and to offer Camotes CORL's help in restoring and protecting their coral reef habitats.

Leaving the Camotes finished my touring of the Marine Aquarium Councils project areas. The task set before MAC is very large, with 7014 islands spread over such a large area it will take decades for them to reach all the areas involved in the collection and trade of marine ornamentals if they do it alone. In addition to the problem of the size of area to be covered is the many different dialects and societies involved. The task before them is monumental, many others have tried in the past to instigate net reform most have failed and those that did work were ended prematurely because of funding problems. The program areas once completed will also need continued support to assure back sliding doesn't occur this will entail many dedicated participants within the community and both at governmental and non-governmental levels.

I like what I have seen happening in the Philippines, it's a good start, but there is much more work to do. MAC's program there has a good following by the communities involved so far. Other areas where MAC's programs were started but ran into trouble need to be reassessed to determine why they didn't pass the certification inspection by the outside 3rd parties and solutions must be found to those problems so those collectors will also toss aside the squirt bottles.


Another issue that needs addressing is the amount that the collectors receive for the fish from the wholesalers. Many wholesalers are said to be still paying the same prices for the fish that they were paying 10-15years ago. Back then the Peso was valued much higher than it is today (1 US doller is currently worth 54 Pesos), so if this is true they are making much less today than they made back then for the same fish.
In the last meeting of the Philippine exporters association an agreement was reached to give the collectors 10% more for the fish, I find this to be a small token and the exporters need to do more to help the collectors make a living. Some are offering netting materials and there has also been talk of an exporter funded net training program, these will help but the ultimate help will be the increasing of the price for the fish. I know that the hobbyist don't like to here such talk as they see the cost of their hobby increasing as a result, but your hobby is a luxury item to you where as to the collectors and their families it's a matter of survival. A 1 cent increase at the collectors end for a damsel fish doesn't have to result in a major increase at the retail level, I find that the basic price structuring of the marine ornamental trade is flawed in that respect.

Well that about wraps up this report about what is happing in The Philippines, what I saw is a good start I hope MAC can keep up the work and do a good job in helping the communities set up CAMPs and CRMPs where they are needed. CORL is here to help by working independently with the net training, handling/holding, and Ecosystem Management. You will have a copy of our program proposals very soon. I thank the MAC and all its people for making the trip go so well, Special Thanks to Lino, Monica, Freddie, Isabelle, and Peter. I hope CORL's work during the second week of my stay pays off for all the parties involved.

From American Samoa the Heart of Polynesia Thanks for taking the time to read this long post,
I hope I was able to answer some of your questions and provide you with some needed info so you can make better rational decisions about your hobby for all those it affects.

To the Marine Aquarium Council I hope you find the results of my trip helpful I pointed out some problems and offered what solutions I could. Any time that I or CORL can lend you a hand we will, may be next time we can do it on CORL's quarter. Thank you AMDA for letting Steve come to the Philippines we accomplished a lot of good work for the benefit of all involved.

From CORL-AS
Laters,

Mike King
Director of CORL
A 501-c-3 not for profit org
www.corl.org

(exporters and company names were left out to protect the interest of Reefs.org)
 

mkirda

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Mike R King":1yh9wlvc said:
Here is my long awaited report of the Philippine Trip it differs a little in content from what was posted on MAC's web site.

No comment on your talks with Ferdinand Cruz???

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

dizzy

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Mike,
Good report. It nice to finally hear someone acknowledge the contributions of Steve Robinson and AMDA.
 
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Anonymous

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Mike R King wrote:

A 1 cent increase at the collectors end for a damsel fish doesn't have to result in a major increase at the retail level, I find that the basic price structuring of the marine ornamental trade is flawed in that respect.

very well said :)


(and welcome back to the www :wink: )
 

Mike King

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Yes Mary,
MAC covered the cost for both weeks I was there, however they did not pay me for any of the work I did (my usual charge is 500.00 consultation / day + 100.00 / 60 min of video and 1,000.00 /min of final production.)
My charges vary depending upon customer though seeing that I was acting as the CORL representative on this trip I did it for free (my mistake as two weeks without any pay really put a dent in my pocket and greatly hampered getting things going down here.)
MAC did the schedule, I was asked whom I wanted to see ahead of time and they made those meetings happen. In fact the meeting with Director Atty. Malcolm Sarmiento was at my request. If Lino (MAC worker) hadn't helped arrange the meeting it would have never happened on such a short notice (THANKS LINO) that meeting was mainly for CORL and that's how it went also. Most of the second week was left open so Steve, Ferdie, Lino and myself could get together and start working on the foundation of a net training program.
We are still working on it and expect to have it ready for submission mid June.

Mike,
this is the reason we haven't said much about what went down that week expect the news to be released mid-late June after the final proposal has been submited.

Mike King
 

MaryHM

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You met with some collectors who are happy with MAC. Did you ask to meet with the ones that aren't? This would help present a more unbiased view. The problem I have with "Reports" from people who have been paid by a particular organization is that inevitably it will be slanted in that organization's favor. I think it's always important to list exactly what conflict of interests exist- such as who paid for it and any relation between the organization and the "reporter". Isn't MAC working with CORL to help obtain funding for CORL projects? Wouldn't this affect the way you report issues as they pertain to MAC? Although your input is appreciated and interesting, I put much more stock in reports from people like Mike Kirda, who as far as I can tell are completely unbiased. He's not industry, he's not affliated with a bunch of letters, he went on his own dime, etc...
 

John_Brandt

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Tulafale,

Would you like me to edit your report so that all those pretty numbers go away?

Manuia,

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago
 

Mike King

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Hmm seems like someone just didn't read the report and my response to earlier questions to well, for most of the answers to her questions were already given.

For the record again MAC paid for the trip but they didn't pay me.
For the Record the 2001 trip to the Philippines cost CORL 15k for the 1.5 months we were there. 6k of that was donated by someone else (a hobbyist) the rest was donated by myself. We toured Negros in its entirety and a large section of Luzon and Cebu on that trip as reported in our 4th newsletter.

I had a chance to meet with some of the unhappy collectors but Ferdie, and I decided not to so we could focus on the net training problem.

I addressed Issue of the failed CAMP areas in the report posted earlier I didn't say anything about those collectors because I didn't talk to them 1st hand.

Isn't MAC working with CORL to help obtain funding for CORL projects? Wouldn't this affect the way you report issues as they pertain to MAC?

I have stated many times that CORL IS, and MUST stay independent of MAC. This Is the main reason that the MAC / CORL working partnership on net training may not go forward. Ferdie Steve and I will not give in. ( Mike Kirda don't worry there are many wheels in motion).

We will work with any organization that shares the same goals. WE prefer to obtain our own funding but we do work with both government and nongovernment organizations very often.
For example CORL has just been asked to submit proposals by the American Samoa government to produce several 30min and 1 hr videos for education.
Another major Pacific Education org is also asking us to submit proposals on projects in Fiji, Cook, Vanuatu and Somoa. ( Just received a call for more proposals today).
These and several CORL / DMWR (Department of Marine and Wildlife Resources) are in the process of approval for next year. For What its worth my salary for these jobs is 40K of which I will put 20K back into CORL to speed things up even more.

AS far as the way I report issues : I'm asked by many org.s and governments to check out their projects and to give my evaluation on what they are doing. I'm very well known for being up front and to the point. I tell it as I see it and I'm very well respected in the industry, government and the field for just that.

I put much more stock in reports from people like Mike Kirda, who as far as I can tell are completely unbiased. He's not industry, he's not affliated with a bunch of letters, he went on his own dime, etc...

Yes I too appreciate what Mike Kirda is doing his work was one of the reasons I decided not to visit those other areas, then again Ferdie is my left hand man in PI (My hearing on the right side is shot I hear much better on the left (to much free diving on the reefs , hmm just like 80% of the PI collectors )).

Well I hope that clarified things with you, one last thing

A not-for-Profit organization is a company the same as any for profit company (a 501-c-3 is one of the hardest classifications of a NPO to get,) the difference is its profits go to projects that benefit the community in CORL's case the Community is those who truly depend upon the coral reefs to survive not into our pocket.

Why don't you put some of your money where your mouth is?

Mike King

Director of CORL-INT, and AS
Reefball BOD member
ICRI member,
CRAG,
And who knows what else I'll soon have to hire a part time worker just to keep up with them all :P
[/quote]
 

MaryHM

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Mike,

Again, it's not an attack on you, but just questions about a bias that I see. YOU are CORL, so it may seem like I'm coming at you. We all have the right to question CORL, just like we have the right to question MAC. It's not necessary to get snitty.

Things need to be transparent. MAC needs to be transparent. I think you would agree with this. And for the record, I put my money where my mouth is everytime I import fish. And other projects are in the works.
 

mkirda

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Mike,

Did you actually see a copy of the CAMP for Batasan or Clarin?

Were you able to read it/them?

Was a resource assessment done?

What shape was the reef in?

How many different net types did you see the collectors using?

Were the collectors happy to be part of the MAC?
Did you ever get the sense that you might have been given a song and dance show?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
P.S. Liked your report, BTW... It seemed like it wasn't terribly 'spun'.
Has MAC given you any flak for reporting on the warts?
 
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Catch-22 - MAC pays for Mike's Trip - the report is essentially positive for MAC - however, just because a report is paid for and ends up being positive doesn't automatically mean it's biased.

One must look at all the factors -

a) I don't think Mike needs MAC to give him a free "vacation" in the Philippines

b) while I have MANY issues with MAC I doubt they can screw EVERYTHING up lol, even a blind rat gets the cheese every now and then.

c) Even then I think the more telling factor in the report is that the collectors seem to be embracing reform and even seeking it out - including non-MAC NGO's.

Now what is disturbing is that MAC certified collectors/exporters still seem to focus on animals that survive collection and shipment to importers but rarely do well long term i.e. green mandarins. But then the USL is a whole other can of worms we haven't kicked over lately...
 

MaryHM

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Tom,

I agree with everything you just said. However, I also feel it is important for the organizations involved to remain transparent- to point out the bias themselves and make that clear to the reader. Had MAC been transparent from the beginning and accepted and addressed criticisms, I don't think they would be in the bind they're in right now. I don't want to see another organization make that same mistake. It's not just us handful of people who understand the issues reading this forum. There are many, many others who don't have a clue what is going on and take everything that is said at face value- not even knowing you need to dig deeper to understand the full scope of the situation. When I ask questions, I generally know the answer or have at least a pretty good idea of the answer. What I'm trying to do is make other people think. Some people take offense at that.

For goodness sake, don't we have enough to deal with without you saying the "U" word???!!! :lol:
 

mkirda

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MaryHM":2yr9pw3g said:
For goodness sake, don't we have enough to deal with without you saying the "U" word???!!! :lol:

Since John has not mentioned it, I will.
In private discussions, the "U" word came up and it seems like it will be in place by the end of the year.

While John got some flack on this topic, I can say with some authority that it is one of his passions. He wants it in place.

Others have argued against it. I have mixed feelings, but I think it is not such a problem that it cannot be easily dealt with. Just exclude those fish from certification. That doesn't mean the collectors cannot collect them, or that exporters cannot carry them. It just means that MAC will not allow them to be certified...

Seems the easiest and most politically palatable method of dealing with it.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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Anonymous

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Well okay Mike's not a good politician - Mike you need to hang out in "the Sump" for a few weeks - you'll learn to bluntly qualify EVERYTHING you say :wink:
 

MaryHM

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In private discussions, the "U" word came up and it seems like it will be in place by the end of the year.

Yeah, it's been "going to be in place by the end of the year" for the last 2 years. ;)
 

mkirda

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MaryHM":us6nruaw said:
Yeah, it's been "going to be in place by the end of the year" for the last 2 years. ;)

Mary,

They've given themselves two deadlines re: the CDT and this.
I'd argue to hold off until the deadlines pass w/o action.
At that point, you can blast away.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

naesco

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Did someone mention the impossible to keep species list.?(IKSL)
It is a wise decision on Johns part to champion the USL. A decision that deserves the unanimous support of all the members of this forum.

Although the proposed deadline is near, I applaud him for taking the initiative to make things happen.
I hope that as a reefer, I have the opportunity to be a part of the decision on which species are and are not on the list.
But, I am mindful of the fact that clearly the CDT implementation is the number one priority.
Just as industry has realized that to remain in business they can no longer sell cyanide fish to an ever enlightened reefing community, industry will be quick to adopt a reasonable list which includes most of the obligate feeders which made the list over one year ago.
And reform goes on! :D
 

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