John Brandt's MAC-Philippines Report

[mkirda]

Ferdinand Cruz developed a simpler underwater survey methodology that was applied by collectors in Palauig and Busuanga with some help from the MAC trainers and a Peace Corps worker. Ferdinand published an underwater survey manual that describes the methods.

Peter Rubec

For clarifications sake, the manual was co-authored by Renante A. Ruz, Ferdinand Cruz and Alexandra Didoha. It shows Sponsored by: IMA and USAID and Funding provided by US AID and US Peace Corps.

I quote "The method of assessment was based on several protocols for assessing the marine ecosystem such as ASEAN-Australian coral reef monitoring protocol (English et al. 1994), Reefbase Aquanaut Survey Manual (McManus et al. 1997), Roving Diver fish census (Schmitt et.al 1998) and Reef Check. "

The methodology is simple: Timed Swims and Belt transects - Simple stuff, but quite effective.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
Thanks to Ferdinand for providing me with a copy.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Peter, this is a friendly question, What was the basis for deeming an area unsustainable? How was this determined?
_________________
Honda Z

 

[mkirda]

Peter, this is a friendly question, What was the basis for deeming an area unsustainable? How was this determined?

Kalkbreath,

This is done using the ReefCheck methodology. Would suggest going to their website and reading. I daresay it is one of the more comprehensive and most widely accepted methods out there.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[PeterIMA]

Reply to Kalk,

First of all, I should clarify that I don't have either the report created by ReefCheck or the Batasan Island CAMP document. So, I don't know exactly how ReefCheck reached their conclusions. Presumably, one could infer this by reading the MAQTRAC methodology. If you send me an email ([email protected]) I can send you the DRAFT copy of MAQTRAC that Shuman sent to me as a MS-Word file. Shuman informed me that if I wanted the ReefCheck Report or the Batasan CAMP (which he has), I would need to request them from the MAC. I requested them from Lino Alvarez (no reply), David Vosseler (no reply), and Paul Holthus (stated he would send the CAMP and never did).

From a coral reef scientist's point of view (methods described in MAQTRAC) there would need to be a high diversity of coral species in good to excellent condition. MAQTRAC describes methods for calculating Diversity Indices for fish and for corals. Without the ReefCheck Report I can't say what these indices are, but my guess is they are low and don't meet the criteria being set by ReefCheck (Hence, the statements from Hodgson and Shuman of ReefCheck about the site being unsustainable).

What I do know about the Batasan Island site comes from the IMA trainers who did net-trainig there in 1999, from Ferdinand Cruz, indirectly from the MAC trainers (their emails to Ferdinand), and from the MAC Feasability report conducted in 2000.

The reefs in Bohol are very degraded from a variety of factors as I previously mentioned. Instead of calling it the Batasan CAMP, Ferdinand termed the plan for Batasan the DAMP (Destroyed Area Management Plan).

The MAC Feasability study listed 22 species as being found in the area of Batasan Island 1) Green Mandarin, 2) Chelmon Butterfly (Copperbanded), 3) Yellow Seahorse, 4) Orbie Bat Fish, 5) Tiera Bat Fish, 6) Pinnatus Bat Fish, 7) High-Fin Snapper (seasonal), 8) Panther Fish (seasonal), 9) Pilot Fish, 10) Maroon Clown, 11) Blue Koran (angelfish), 12) Half Black Angel, 13) Melas Angel, 14) Auriga Butterfly, 15) Vagabondas (butterflyfish), 16) Dwarf Lion Fish, 17) Black Peacock Lion, 18) Domino Damsel, 19) Two Stripe Damsel 20) Three Stripe Damsel, 21) Black Seahorse, 22) Colored Seahorse (minimal). This is a low fish species diversity of aquarium fishes compared to other areas evaluated during the MAC Feasability study.

Aquarium Habitat is receiving about 11-12 species from the Batasan/ Clarin area (municipality of Tubigon). The most prevalent species of interest are the Green Madarin, the Copperbanded Butterfly, and the Maroon Clown (personal communicatons S. Robinson, F. Cruz). There are a few other species mentioned by John Brandt (see his posting). Overall, there are only about 6 species near Batasan that are present in numbers that are commercially exploitable. It is questionable how long one can exploit these species before they become depleted. Hence, my concern about the "sustainability" of the fish populations in the area.

My main complaint is that the MAC certified Batasan and Clarin knowing everything I just stated (from the Feasability Study, the ReefCheck survey, and communications from their own staff). Lino Alvarez (MAC-Phils Coordinator) prepared the CAMP with minimal participation from the collectors (in less than two months), and Graham O'Geran of IMS International certified the site (without revealing what criteria he followed from the MAC). For futher information about Clarin and Batasan refer to Ferdinand's letter to the MAC posted on Mary Middlebrook's web site.

Peter Rubec

 

[John_Brandt]

John,

I noticed that it took you a few days to respond to Peter's original question. The skeptic in me (you know, that part that composes about 98% of my soul!!) says that this is because you ran these questions by someone else first- possibly Paul. If this is the case, now or in the future, could you please let us know? Just say "Paul says" or "so and so" says. Helps us to understand where the information is coming from.

Hello Mary,

Sorry for my delayed response, I was researching my answer :wink:

But seriously, any delays in my responses shouldn't be taken to mean anything in particular. I could be busy, I could be thinking about it, I could be seeking more information, I could have deprioritzed the response, etc. etc.

My responses to questions about MAC and the USCRTF will be crafted from a myriad of sources. My personal experience, knowledge and resources-at-hand are often sufficient for many responses. But there will be occasions when I will consult, inquire, seek clarification and generally improve my response by directly contacting the representative organizations.

All of this is in an effort to bring the reader of these postings an accurate up-to-date picture of the dealings of highly-dynamic independant organizations. MAC and USCRTF are works in progress, as they should be. Hence, they should be treated and viewed as such.

I will not oblige your request to give personal references to sources of information. It's impractical and unnecessary. On occasions when I consult MAC Staff I may get multiple responses from multiple parties. The workload at MAC can be quite significant, and I may end up engaging whomever is available. But no matter, responses from MAC are offered to be taken as a MAC response, not a response by any particular individual at MAC.

I will always convey information, regardless of its ultimate source, in my own style. It doesn't always pay to simply "cut-and-paste" information from MAC when explaining things. MAC Standards and MACese (my unofficial term for the language used in MAC literature and policy) often benefits from plainspeak interpretation, and you can look forward to that from me.

That is not to say that I wouldn't make personal references where I might find it necessary or appropriate. My point is that it is almost always unnecessary for the accuracy and the clarity of the issue at hand.

This is a good occasion for me to mention that there is a significant amount of misinformation and false rumors circulating within the aquarium industry and hobby with relation to MAC. Your skepticism is appreciated (and I am one of the most critically skeptical persons you will ever meet), and I would suggest that anyone exercise their own.

Therefore...
I strongly suggest that anyone who reads or hears information about MAC that does not come directly from the MAC Organization, MAC Staff or board of directors to treat such information as subject to confirmation, and apply reasonable caution.

My underlying goal and purpose of the moderation of this forum is in creating an enjoyable and informative climate, with equal emphasis on both.

Sincerely,
John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Hi all,


I understand concerns expressed about the holding pens. I know that in some communities collectors have been using them for long time. Also know that it is not possible to use them every where due to strong currents and waves action. However, there are places where they can be used. What about modifying the actual model for one that can be submerged to avoid the ups and downs? This can be done by adding weight to the structure. Instead of constructing large ones collectors can be motivated and helped economically to build smaller ones easier to replace and clean.

Holding and halding at community level are factors that must be addressed to ensure that main fish suppliers (collectors) are offering to the industry and hobby net caught fish properly handled and held. Most of the communities I visited are keeping fish in plastic bags for extended periods of time. Plastic bags are used and reused many times these plastic bags are focus of diseases that can be transmited from fish to fish. The plastic bags are used until the holes are bigger than the fish they're keeping. Once again the problem is economics, plastic bags can be more expensive than the fish kept. I have a bunch of pictures I showed during a talk in Los Angeles MACNA X where you can see up to 10 Yellow Wrasses and 6 Lion Fishes per bag. The water is that cloudy that you have problems to see the fish. Fish are exposed not only to high ammonia concentrations but also to pH fluctuations, oxygen depletion and high temperatures among others. The consequences of this negative exposure are without doubt detrimental to the quality of the fish.

Holding and handling must be addressed to avoid unnecessary mortality of net caught fish.

I am willing to put energy and time on this issue. There are two funding agencies that could be interested in helping to tackle this issue. Positive and constructive criticism are appreciated.

I think this alternative is more realistic than the one suggested by John, nothing personal :lol: Another option could be the construction of cement pools and wells as the water source.

Jaime

 

[MaryHM]

John,

Thanks for the response.

In comment to this:

I strongly suggest that anyone who reads or hears information about MAC that does not come directly from the MAC Organization, MAC Staff or board of directors to treat such information as subject to confirmation, and apply reasonable caution.

Question: You mentioned "board of directors"- of which you are a member- does that mean that any information coming from you about MAC is not subject to confirmation and we don't need to use caution? Just trying to get a handle on where the information is coming from. Is it John Brandt's personal opinion or is it MAC's?

Based on Marivi's and Ferdinand's letters- both people who have much more intimate dealings with MAC than anyone on this board does- I would have to also say that any information coming directly from MAC should be treated as subject to confirmation and the reader should apply reasonable caution.

 

[John_Brandt]

As you know they contain proprietary materials.

Having said that...I did a bit more inquiring, but you may already know some of the following:

1) CAMPs are produced by the CAMP Committee, not by MAC.
2) CAMPs are often several MBs in size, due to the maps.
3) You, Mike Kirda, now have permission to view the CAMPs if you go to either Batasan or Clarin in person.
4) The CAMP Committees will likely be producing a CAMP summary for the MAC website.
5) The CAMP Committees are not prepared to issue CAMPs to anyone, as they consider some information proprietary. This is especially true with their knowledge that people on the Internet are speaking of sharing CAMPs from uncertified areas.

John,

(Note: I am annoyed with the answers, John. Please do not take this personally...)

1) BS. CAMPs are actually written by the area's MAC coordinator. Or maybe you didn't catch the educational level of the average fisherman.
2) Who cares? I have broadband. The CAMPs could be much smaller in size if the producer was more well versed in computer technology... Maybe I should shrink the Palauig one so it can be only 1-2 meg in size for easier distribution?
3) Great. So next time I actually get to take a trip to the Philippines (maybe 2 years from now), I get to fly to Cebu, take the ferry across to Bohol and travel down there to get a copy? Or just to see a copy?
4) n/c.
5) John, can you identify what it is within these CAMPs that is considered to be 'proprietary'? It is really interesting as Roger was very willing to share the Palauig CAMP with me- He was *PROUD* of it because it represented a lot of effort. He considered it a major accomplishment, as did Pedro from BFAR. But for the life of me, I cannot figure out what would be 'proprietary information' within it. Maybe Paul can identify it by page number from the Palauig CAMP, then Paragraph, as well as beginning of sentence? (To be sure I am looking at the same information?)

Regards.

Mike Kirda

Mike,

Don't worry about offending me, you won't.

With all of this controversy surrounding the CAMP and the points raised in your rebuttal, I decided to try to learn more about CAMPs. Rather than write a descriptive story about CAMPs, I decide to list points, facts and practical experiences with them. Responses came from various MAC Staff members as well as MAC Certified Collectors Associations.

General CAMP Information:

* The CAMP is produced by a CAMP Committee and enforced by them. The certifier checks during their visits that the CAMP is a live document and not just put on the shelf. MAC acts sometimes as an advisor/observer to CAMP Committees but CAMP Committees want to be in charge of their own CAMPs.

* EFM Standard Annex 1 states that the following items and content are required in a CAMP...

Annex 1 - Item 14 ... requires mechanisms to ensure that resources are not overharvested.

Annex 1 - Item 16 ... requires monitoring, control, surveillance and enforcement.

Annex 1 - Item 18 ... requires ongoing review and audit of the CAMP.

* EFM Interpretation Number 3 states, "... does not make it mandatory that a resource assessment must take place prior to MAC
Certification being granted. However the Collection Area Management Plan (CAMP) must address how the abundance, distribution and trends of the resource will be assessed over time."

* The certifier also checks actual evidence of compliance to the CAMP. Certifiers use Annex 1 as well as other documents to assess compliance to the EFM Standard.

* In the case where a formal resource assessment has not been undertaken, initial collection volumes are conservatively chosen by the CAMP Committee based on a constant (i.e. not declining) CPUE.

* At the first quarterly review of the CAMPs in Batasan and Clarin a few weeks ago the CAMP Committee invited Reefcheck to present their resource assessment reports. The species and volumes in the CAMP were then amended accordingly.

* All Certified Collectors Associations have agreed at a meeting in Manila in February 2003 that MAC monitor the species and volumes of species at certified exporters to ensure amongst other things that CAMP "volumes" are not exceeded.

* Palauig has not yet finished its certification due to a few outstanding issues that may need to be added to a revised CAMP. The Certifier will decide this.

* If a CAMP comes from a MAC Certified Collection Area then de facto the resource is "sustainable" in line with the requirements of the MAC EFM Core Standard.

CAMP Proprietary Issues and Concerns:

The Western view of "proprietary" may not necessarily line up with the Filipino view, which most probably would include "sensitive" topics as well.

The CAMP is like a business plan. It is up to the CAMP Committee, who are essentially the owners of the CAMP, to decide if they want to share it.

The CAMP Committees tend to be concerned about:

* Other competing Collectors Associations plagiarizing a CAMP, and thus shortcutting the hard work necessary to produce their CAMP.

* Admissions of past bad practices in the CAMP, such as cyanide use.

* Descriptions of protected areas (MPA) where fishing does not take place. These areas are abundant in fish and could be poached by others.

* Development of unique fishing methods.

* Volumes and markets for fish.

* The species for which trigger points have been set.

* The CAMP is one of the few possessions they have, and it is their rudimentary business plan.

Experience and observations reveal: No matter what anyone says, the CAMP Committees don't really want to give just anyone a copy, because suddenly that one copy becomes 100. They are also concerned that the whole CAMP will be copied and used by some "white overseas consultant or NGO" to raise funds to tell them how to collect fish once more :lol:

As an aside, Peter Scott mentioned that a CAMP Committee would probably sell a copy of a CAMP for a rather large sum, if a person were extremely motivated.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[John_Brandt]

John,

Is there any provision made in MAC certification that ornamental collection areas be seperated from collection areas used by other types if fisherpersons?

-Lee

Hello Lee,

The MAC Certified Collecting Area is defined. However, the village residents tend to be naturally protective of the waters in the vicinity of their home. Problems with destructive fishing and poaching are often the work of "outsiders".

The MPA is strictly protected from all types of fishing. Residents of the village associated with the MAC Certified Collecting Area do use the collecting area to non-destructively gather some food fish, but tend to not allow others to fish there without permission. They certainly will not tolerate cyanide or blast fishing in their area.

If you are wondering if fish from Batasan/Clarin Certified Collecting Areas could be exposed to cyanide from outside sources, I cannot answer that. But it seems unlikely.

John Brandt

 

[John_Brandt]

John,

Thanks for the response.

In comment to this:

I strongly suggest that anyone who reads or hears information about MAC that does not come directly from the MAC Organization, MAC Staff or board of directors to treat such information as subject to confirmation, and apply reasonable caution.

Question: You mentioned "board of directors"- of which you are a member- does that mean that any information coming from you about MAC is not subject to confirmation and we don't need to use caution? Just trying to get a handle on where the information is coming from. Is it John Brandt's personal opinion or is it MAC's?

Based on Marivi's and Ferdinand's letters- both people who have much more intimate dealings with MAC than anyone on this board does- I would have to also say that any information coming directly from MAC should be treated as subject to confirmation and the reader should apply reasonable caution.

Mary,

I may not have been clear with my statement. Basically, if one's information pertaining to MAC did not come from MAC Staff or board of directors, treat it with caution.

For example, "information" has been tossed around on this forum (and elsewhere) that claims that MAC directors are salaried, or otherwise monetarily compensated. A simple inquiry to MAC Staff or directors would have immediately disconfirmed this rumor.

I'm not entirely certain about what your question of my opinions is asking.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[MaryHM]

John,

To clarify my previous question:

You said in your bold print statement to treat any information about MAC as subject to confirmation unless it is coming from a board of director. You are on the board. Does this mean that we can assume everything you say about MAC is the "MAC official position" on any issue?

Part 2, Concerning the CAMPs:

* EFM Interpretation Number 3 states, "... does not make it mandatory that a resource assessment must take place prior to MAC
Certification being granted. However the Collection Area Management Plan (CAMP) must address how the abundance, distribution and trends of the resource will be assessed over time."

This is what really bugs me about MAC. They'll certify an area, but a resource assessment doesn't have to be carried out first!! To me it seems like it's more of the "Certify now, figure out the problems later" mentality. Now, part of the MAC mantra is that "Buy MAC- your fish will be collected sustainably". How can they say that if no resource assessment has taken place?? Dare I say the word again...FRAUD???

 

[horge]

Mary,

I doubt anyone really disagrees with your sentiment.
Sustainability has to be the bottom line, and if there was some document sitting around somewhere that could vouch for it absolutely, I'd love to have it too.

However, let me shoot this right back at you...

1. Over the years I've laid out more quadrats than I can remember, and I feel any area survey --with an eye towards gauging reef durability vs. ornamental harvest-- is of precious little use unless done over a significant (read: obscenely extended) span of time. Some CAMPS may thus (to my mind) be more valuable as a business template than as a sustainability assessent ---the latter is IMHO a best-guess until the CAMP 'subscriber' actually implements and observes for effects.

Not to stray, but...
It's sometimes good to set even truisms and general knowledge to paper, so the politicians, environmentalists, locals and investors get their tangible, minimum RDA of reassurance. We all need handholding before we take the plunge into something new, no?
I'm not saying CAMPs are good only for handholding value.
But maybe that's one of their charms




2. If a harvest area is controlled by local residents and they appreciate significant profit from it, they are unlikely to allow any harm to come to it.
You can place your faith in the paper CDT if you like.
You can also place your faith in a modicum of intelligence on the part of the collector-collectives. So long as you personally inspect their operations and interview the collectors every so often, you can reduce concern over three factors that lead to local abuse of the reefs:

duress, desperate poverty, and greed.

Did I forget a lack of education? No.
I honestly don't think that's an issue if the collectors are local.
Here, pretty much everyone and his dog knows what "sodyum" and overfishing does to the reef. Everyone's had a few decades to observe it for themselves. If they choose to ignore it, it is likely due to the aforementioned three factors.

If MAC and the general hobby can support a certified collector-wholesaler-exporter whom you all feel is running a decent op, envy and economics can lead others to the path of righteousness. The local government will likely care about only three things in this equation: personal political exposure (good or bad-- and this is largely where environmental concerns factor in), jobs generated, and due taxes being paid.



horge

 

[MaryHM]

As always, excellent points, horge! And thank goodness they're in English. I don't disagree with anything you're saying. Having an undergraduate degree in Marine Biology, I am aware of the intensive, extended research necessary to come up with some equation of sustainability. I guess my whole problem is why say it is if it ain't? Or if no one knows. I've always thought that honesty is the best road to take. I have a lot more respect for people who I feel are striving to be honest in their dealings rather than create "cover ups". What is the answer? I don't know. Am I naive in wanting everything to be on the up and up? Maybe. At this point, I'm confident dealing with the people I deal with in the Philippines and I trust them. Not because of a MAC stamp of approval, but because of their attitudes. I'm 98% sure that the fish they have are net caught. Are they all taken from sustainable areas? I can't answer that. But I'd rather say "I don't know" then say "yes" and be lying.

 

[John_Brandt]

John,

To clarify my previous question:

You said in your bold print statement to treat any information about MAC as subject to confirmation unless it is coming from a board of director. You are on the board. Does this mean that we can assume everything you say about MAC is the "MAC official position" on any issue?

Mary,

Actually I said staff and board of directors. Essentially both would be considered "spokespersons" for MAC. Obviously the staff and the executive director have minute-by-minute dealings with the actual operations of the organization. They are the front line of the workings of MAC. The board is kept informed of issues and developments, and their guidance is encouraged. I am not suggesting that every person associated with MAC has equal knowledge of all matters related to MAC. Different people specialize in different areas. A balanced perspective of any MAC issue very often comes from a synthesis of areas of expertise and focus within the MAC ranks.

To directly answer your question.... It would be reasonable, given the circumstances, to regard my comments, answers and statements pertaining to MAC, as if they came from MAC. The MAC regards its directors as integral and important members of a team. But please, apply commonsense reasoning before you declare that every word out of my mouth is "MAC Official Position."

Having said that, I don't want anything to impede what ought to be open dialogue about any issues or questions.

Best regards,
John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[jamesw]

John,

Here's some help with Naesco's "face the wheel" punishment:

1) Licked to death by cats
2) Forged to eat Oo-goo (or however you spell it - pufferfish sushi)
3) Must walk across the rocks at Tulamben - Bali without flip-flops!

Cheers
James

 

[Anonymous]

James clearly has a cruel streak previously unknown.

 

[naesco]

James

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was worried the sushi would be tang sushi!

 

[Anonymous]

I hear tang is pretty good eating.


WHAT???

 

[mkirda]

I hear tang is pretty good eating.

Better than one might expect, Seamaiden.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[dizzy]

Mary,
Thanks for showing John what grouchy can be like. To me trying to figure what MAC is saying is more like a game of Myst or Clue. Retailer number # 2 did it in the fishroom with an algae scraper. When I don't have anything to do to amuse myself (and I'm stuck at the store) I go to aquariumcouncil.org and see what I can figure out. It's challenging.