Canadians First In Reef Fish Conservation With MAC

[flameangel1]

Naesco,,
don't you ever read or research what you are talking about or against ????
We NEED to support those fisherfolk in the Philippines and Indonesia, who ARE doing net caught !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An embargo will stop the good divers/exporters as well as the bad ones. We need to support the good ones !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or 75%% of our business/your hobby will STOP !!!!!!
Why can't you understand that ????????

 

[mkirda]

This would be a good topic for the MASNA convention.

MASNA has a convention?

Hey, Naesco...
It might have made it on the agenda at MACNA, but without you there, somehow I doubt it will even be brought up. Steve?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[naesco]

Naesco,,
don't you ever read or research what you are talking about or against ????
We NEED to support those fisherfolk in the Philippines and Indonesia, who ARE doing net caught !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An embargo will stop the good divers/exporters as well as the bad ones. We need to support the good ones !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Or 75%% of our business/your hobby will STOP !!!!!!
Why can't you understand that ????????[/quote

It is not REEForm that will shut the industry down, it is the industry that will shut themselves down.
Industry needs to make a committment to
1. stop the use of cyanide.
2. provide a timeline for doing this.
3. provide the necessary funds for training and a CDT process.

How could you and industry possibly disagree with any of these committments?

 

[MaryHM]

Apart from the Philippines and Indonesia the results have been excellent.
But the Philippines has been a failure for MAC despite the hard work of the MAC people and the leadership of MAC itself.

Careful Wayne, your ignorance is showing again. MAC hasn't set up their program anywhere BUT the Philippines!!! So where are these "excellent results" you're talking about coming from???

 

[naesco]

Apart from the Philippines and Indonesia the results have been excellent.
But the Philippines has been a failure for MAC despite the hard work of the MAC people and the leadership of MAC itself.

Careful Wayne, your ignorance is showing again. MAC hasn't set up their program anywhere BUT the Philippines!!! So where are these "excellent results" you're talking about coming from???

Where did I say they have set up a programme elsewhere.
A recent success is the Nemo promotion. An excellent idea, well delivered.
It was brilliant using a young actor.
The only failure for MAC is the Philippines and they are smart enough to recognize that and assist industry (fishers, collectors, reformers, etc) in other countries. They have spent millions and countless manhours.

 

[MaryHM]

Hey, I didn't twist anything. You said their results have been excellent. So, they hired some kid to be a spokesperson. And the excellent result has been ????? And you admit that the only place they've actually set up their program for the AQUARIUM TRADE (see, MAC stands for Marine Aquarium Council- not Movie Actors Council) they have failed. I'd say that's a piss-poor record of "excellent results" considering all of the millions they've spent already.

 

[MaryHM]

And the funny thing is that countries like Fiji don't need the MAC. They don't have near the problems of the Philippines and Indonesia. All Fiji needs is some group to do sustainability studies. That's it.

 

[naesco]

And the funny thing is that countries like Fiji don't need the MAC. They don't have near the problems of the Philippines and Indonesia. All Fiji needs is some group to do sustainability studies. That's it.

IMO all the Island countries need support with sustainability studies, training, aquaculture etc.
The Philippines is a total waste of time and money. When the powers that be in the Philippines and stateside make the committment, Mary, than it will be a worthwhile effort spending the time and money there.
The only way this will happen is if they are forced to . You know this as well as I.

 

[MaryHM]

IMO all the Island countries need support with sustainability studies, training, aquaculture etc.

Well, I agree with you that sustainability studies need to be done. MAC doesn't do these- they "contract" out with other organizations. MAC doesn't do any training and they have nothing to do with aquaculture. So exactly what is it that MAC can do that is beneficial in the South Pacific??? (Please answer that).

When the powers that be in the Philippines and stateside make the committment, Mary, than it will be a worthwhile effort spending the time and money there.
The only way this will happen is if they are forced to . You know this as well as I.

No, I don't know that. Aquarium Habitat and Imperial weren't "forced" to be net caught only. The collectors aren't being "forced" to change from cyanide to nets. Steve and I aren't being "forced" to carry net caught. All this has happened within the last few years, and is growing more and more everyday. Trainings were just completed in Appari and netting material given out to over a dozen collectors. Previously only 6 knew how to use nets, but they didn't have any until we sent it over. In the time you've been spouting your ignorance and nonsense, dozens more collectors have been trained and- hold on to your hat- actually given the tools they need to use their recently acquired knowledge- NETS!! How many nets has your precious MAC given out and how many field trainers (those that actually know how to dive) does MAC have working in the field right now? (Please answer this).

 

[naesco]

The most benefical thing that MAC can do is to withdraw its money and manpower resources from the Philippines and concentrate on those countries that appreciate what they are doing.

Maybe Paul Holthus can answer the other question as I do not speak for MAC
Thank you

 

[MaryHM]

But the Philippines and Indonesia are the countries that need reform!! Not countries like Fiji, Solomons, Tonga, etc... Anyway, I highly doubt MAC has any plans to lose face and high tail it out of the Philippines. As much as you'd like to ignore the fact, this industry/hobby needs the Philippines and Indonesia. Reform there is necessary and must be actively pursued. Those 2 countries deserve better than to be thrown away as irrepairable. Especially the Philippines where such great progress has been made.

 

[naesco]

But the Philippines and Indonesia are the countries that need reform!! Not countries like Fiji, Solomons, Tonga, etc... Anyway, I highly doubt MAC has any plans to lose face and high tail it out of the Philippines. As much as you'd like to ignore the fact, this industry/hobby needs the Philippines and Indonesia. Reform there is necessary and must be actively pursued. Those 2 countries deserve better than to be thrown away as irrepairable. Especially the Philippines where such great progress has been made.

It is not a matter of MAC losing face at all. It is a matter of MAC recognizing that until things change and industry is prepared to make the committments requested by REEForm further investment in the cyanide countries is a waste of money.

Industry may need the Philippines and Indonesia as you suggest but those two countries will be embargoed until changes are made and the wrath and destruction of the reefs and all the reefs inhabitants is stopped.

 

[MaryHM]

So are you saying that MAC is pulling out of the Philippines?? And do you realize that if the supply of fish coming out of PI and Indo is stopped, that other countries will be PILAGED to make up the difference? What do you think about that? Those small So. Pac countries can't keep up with the demand, for various reasons. What is your answer to that problem?

 

[naesco]

So are you saying that MAC is pulling out of the Philippines?? And do you realize that if the supply of fish coming out of PI and Indo is stopped, that other countries will be PILAGED to make up the difference? What do you think about that? Those small So. Pac countries can't keep up with the demand, for various reasons. What is your answer to that problem?

I am recommending that MAC pull out of the Philipines. I did not say they are. I do not speak for MAC.

Mary did I read your post correctly. Are you suggesting that we continue to import cyanide caught fish simply because there is a demand for it.?

 

[MaryHM]

In typical Wayne Ryan fashion you didn't answer the question. Honestly, you should consider running for governor of California!

Of course I'm saying let's continue to import cyanide caught fish because there's a demand. You know me, all I do is spend my time trying to convince people that cyanide is the only way to keep the industry afloat. 8O :roll: GET A LIFE. You know damn good and well that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you shut down PI and Indo right now you will increase pressure a thousand fold on the small so pac countries. The only feasible way to reform this industry is through TRAININGS, PROVIDING THE PROPER NETTINGS, HAVING EXPORTERS PAY MORE FOR THE NET CAUGHT FISH, AND GETTING THE INDUSTRY/HOBBYISTS TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE CARRYING NET CAUGHT. Shutting down the trade in PI doesn't accomplish any of those things. Now, I realize you have some reading problem that doesn't let you see question marks clearly, so let me try this again:

You want a ban on PI and Indo. Are you even concerned with the impact this will have on the so pac countries? Do you even understand why they can't supply the demands of this industry/hobby?

If you plan on running some Reeform program, you better learn how to answer questions and quit avoiding them.

 

[MaryHM]

In typical Wayne Ryan fashion you didn't answer the question. Honestly, you should consider running for governor of California!

Of course I'm saying let's continue to import cyanide caught fish because there's a demand. You know me, all I do is spend my time trying to convince people that cyanide is the only way to keep the industry afloat. 8O :roll: GET A LIFE. You know damn good and well that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that if you shut down PI and Indo right now you will increase pressure a thousand fold on the small so pac countries. The only feasible way to reform this industry is through TRAININGS, PROVIDING THE PROPER NETTINGS, HAVING EXPORTERS PAY MORE FOR THE NET CAUGHT FISH, AND GETTING THE INDUSTRY/HOBBYISTS TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE CARRYING NET CAUGHT. Shutting down the trade in PI doesn't accomplish any of those things. Now, I realize you have some reading problem that doesn't let you see question marks clearly, so let me try this again:

You want a ban on PI and Indo. Are you even concerned with the impact this will have on the so pac countries? Do you even understand why they can't supply the demands of this industry/hobby?

If you plan on running some Reeform program, you better learn how to answer questions and quit avoiding them.

 

[clarionreef]

Hey,
What happened over there at Reefcentral? I just read that Naesco was banned. How do you get banned from a forum?
Steve

 

[MaryHM]

That, my friend, is one of the great mysteries of this century. If anyone cares to shed some light on why Wayne got banned, I've got a $20 for ya.

 

[kylen]

USD or CAD??? Obviously we Canadians aren't as polite as we make out to be :wink: .

 

[jamesw]

Perhaps you should ask Wayne. Up until recently, he was one of their "team reefcentral" members.

So who knows.

Bet some of y'all would like us to ban him over here - but alas - we don't really do that, so sorry...;-)

Cheers
James