• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

ferdiecruz

Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
To Jaime and Company,

I knew about the attacks of Jaime Baquero early on and had suspicions on who was actually behind the fabricated and malicious accusations. I thought it better not to join in the whole mud-slinging adventure, finding it better to concentrate on what I was doing in the field. This was until I received a call from a friend of mine confirming my suspicion of who was behind these malicious lies. I will not name names anymore. Naming names will just keep the mud slinging contest going and more skeletons in the closet of those who started this will come out. It just shows how dirty things can be when people are desperate to be recognized as the only authority in net training and other field exercises related to the ornamental industry. Unfortunately this kind of actions reflects on the organization they belong to even if their organization had nothing to do with it.
For me, it does not matter if they are recognized as the sole GURU in this field as long as in good conscience I know that I am doing right. At any given moment, I know I can always out-train them in techniques and development of collectors in this arena with a higher percentage of success. I have no intention of having a contest with anybody. The training field is wide enough for everybody to come in. My stand has always been either we are all welcome to put our heads together and work as one or work separately. Just don’t make things harder. Just don’t make false claims and cover-up problems. It makes work in this field very frustrating and makes it harder to accomplish anything. It makes other coastal dwellers suffer more. No one person can be right or claim he is right and that he can do the whole thing alone. I myself having been in the field so long that I must have grown barnacles on my body but still cannot claim that I am the only one right. In the field I always get opinions and feedback and talk to other people of other organizations before implementing something. No one person is a hero, a savior, or a great guy in this field.

It always disappoints me to have worked in the frontlines of this reform movement for so long and witness time and again the backslide of numerous collectors not because it is totally the collectors, exporters or importers fault, but because organizations who work in this field messed things up due to pigheadedness and a huge crab mentality. If at present any reform initiative mess things up, the LGU's (Local Government Units) will just get fed up and shut down collecting activities one by one in their area of responsibilities. That will be the end of the trade here. Not hype and bandwagon build-up, nor BFAR connections will solve the problems in the field, but a right and honest method of implementation will do it. We have to avoid eager environmental lawyers who would jump into the midst of this thing and would not hesitate to file a landmark environmental case against the government agencies, organizations and even the funding agencies just to make their name. AND believe me I have been approached by several “do-gooders”.

I myself at present have been experiencing a hard time opening up areas because of the LGU's outlook and suspicion that net trainings, or even certification and management plans are just one big scam. For example; Last Wednesday while eight hours on my way up to Appari (which is in the end of northern Luzon) I got a cellphone call from Bicol (in the tip of the southern portion of Luzon) that the program is being lambasted by the media there and that the governor and provincial fisheries were being criticized heavily and being asked to revoke the permits. I had to do a sudden U turn, and rushed to Bicol, driving all night and half a day. I met with the media, and the government officials to explain the way we were handling the program. It took almost the entire day to assure them and to get their total support. Had I not reached Bicol in time to explain in more detail the practical methods of implementation and how it is being done, the permits would have been cancelled. Why Bicol? Why Appari? Because the market needs angels, triggers and tangs among many others, and these areas have them in abundance.

I should issue a challenge to Jaime and company to prove their accusations against us but I find it childish. I do not think this is the proper way to find a solution to the problems that have pestered us for decades. I find it better to combine skills, expertise, and knowledge: a better way to once and for all solve this problem so those in the communities affected by the problems of this industry can finally have some breathing space in eking out their own living without blaming the industry for their hardships. .

Let me just clarify some things before I talk about PPP, where Jaime played a major role:
A lot of people kept asking me why I went on without any funding. The answer is simple. I had to show part of the way. If we do cover-ups now and we certify collectors and when one of them gets caught using some other methods to collect fish, then not only does it destroy the credibility of certification, but the LGUs (Local Government Unit) will close down collection of ornamental fish municipality by municipality. If a depleted area is certified, the marine eco-system will never be able to recover. But to show the way, we have to work on a vertical approach with people who are willing to try it, not trying to find ways to go around it. That is what I did and what I am doing now. Bear in mind that I have put in a lot of honest work in the methods of certification, so I do not want it to go to waste if it is possible or to be made a tool to hide illegal activities. I found the certification method of implementation full of holes that at the time nobody wanted to plug. Certification was being hyped and turned into a bandwagon that was being used for other purposes. I also needed to prove that other species can be caught in volume by nets and brought into the market.

Why Imperial and not those that were certified exporters of MAC? I left MAC so I can criticize the implementation method openly. It would be unethical to criticize them while I was in the organization. So it is but logical that I should not use MAC certified exporters nor touch their certified areas. Several other shippers approached me to join them. They had been shipping out to the Asian market successfully, but shipping out to the western countries, things were a disaster. To be honest about it, I was being offered some sort of fee, but I turned it down and instead asked that they donate some field materials, and in return receive high quality net caught fish. One of them formed Imperial and last January, when they were ready to operate, wanted to go 100% net caught. So in return, I volunteered to work with their technical staff without pay as long as we came to an agreement that they only handle net-caught fish, that they received fish properly without any under the table percentage for the screeners, and ship only net caught. We also had a common agreement that they share their fish with other shippers and try the US market, so I can prove that the method we were implementing was right. Imperial even shared their high-value angel fishes with others, even when these angels were just trickling in during the start of the agreement. They have shipped to the US and have proven that mortality can be very low and can stay low. That was all I asked from them. After having proved this, I have not mentioned or pushed Imperial on my own. They can take care of themselves and so far, the agreement between us has been honored. I have not gone there recently as often as I did in the early part of this year, except when a US buyer complains about a shipment that has to be corrected, or fish that has to have preventive medication. Right now, I am working to arrange a flow of net caught fish supply to more exporting outfits that is still not 100% net-caught

Why would I cut fish supply to a MAC certified exporter? It is not in my interest to cut off supply to anybody. The areas I am in are not certified areas. The areas where net caught fish come from are all over the Philippines. I have done training in those areas one way or another either during IMA’s time or before that when we were still in the business. I have tried to organize collectors to turn them to a more cohesive body in these areas.

When the collectors are ready to sell their fish, I have provided them with a list of five recommended exporters, all of who are willing to provide the collectors with a better price for their fish than the normal PTFEA pricing guidelines. (I do not think I have to remind you that these collectors have dealt with almost all the exporters at one time or another and have their own opinion and impression that even I cannot change nor influence.) In fact, one of them is MAC certified. It is up to the leaders amongst the collectors to decide where they should sell their fish. It is up to the exporters to deal with them fairly too. That is competition. In an area I have just opened up that has been closed to collection of ornamental fish for over a decade, I went as far as to tell the leader to call a MAC certified exporter to offer their fish, but they were turned down. I haven’t told these collectors where the donation of materials to hold fish in the areas comes from, so they are under no feeling of obligation to sell to that exporter. I have only told them the plastic net comes from a donation of a US group. Anybody can come down here and ask the collectors or the LGU people the truth to this anytime.

As far as the accusation of being paid, although I see nothing wrong with it having no affiliation at that time, I declined it for very obvious reasons. I do not want to be tied down by any exporter and forced to close my eyes. There is a time to earn money and there is a time to do things right. Doing things right should be first.

I find it funny that Steve and I are regarded as minor irritants that would soon be taken care of. We are not irritants. We are pointing out things that are wrong to protect the industry.

Jaime, do you remember the PPP? You were part of its creation. You attempted to federate the net-caught collectors that Haribon trained and to sell their fish abroad with the promise of better pricing that never was and the promise of better quality fish that never materialized. In that supposed federation, they even included collectors that I have trained pre-Haribon and IMA days. Jaime, at that time, you approached my family when PPP was being set up and my mother informed me by phone. I was in Indonesia then working in the tourism sector and not connected with IMA. They told me what PPPs goals were and I told them that they should help and offer to PPP net caught fish that they were getting from Palawan and Mindanao, so that PPP would have the variety that was needed to ship out. I knew that with only fish from Bolinao and Zambales, PPP will never be able to ship out and I believed at that time that it was one of the solutions to the multi-faceted problems of the industry. In one of my many trips back to the Philippines, I even met with PPPs University of the Philippines marine biologist Mr. Ben Vallejo Jr. and Juned Sonido , who hung out in the facility of my family a lot even pre-PPP days. They wanted to learn and asked a lot of questions. I answered those questions not begrudging them, even if they were regarded by the association as competitors being associated with PPP. Talks of conflict of interest were wide spread. In fact, I told them to get supplies of fish from my family so they can make a go of it. Ben and Juned could not only hang out, but were free to go in and out of the main holding system in our facility, something they never could do in other facilities. They were not welcome in other fish holding areas of the association. One of these guys eventually joined ICLARM and is doing great things.

What happened to the PPP? It was a pure waste of good intentions and money. It gave false hopes to collectors, and when they realized that nothing will happen, they went on a backsliding spree with a vengeance, thinking that they had been had. Nobody took time out to explain to them the reasons of why it failed, so they felt they had been used. News of this misadventure spread all over the PI unfortunately, making it harder for IMA to do its own training. Did I protest and say the whole thing was a conflict of interest, a fraud? Did I protest when our offer of net caught fish of wider variety was turned down? Where you able to ship out? Why was there no continuity in the whole thing? Here in the Philippines there is still a lot of question about PPP. There are still a lot of innuendoes. I do not want to join in it nor speculate on what happened.

Regarding my conflict of interest during IMAs days, I beg to disagree. When IMA tapped me to do training in the early 90s, they asked me to choose the site. I chose the killing fields of Jolo, where a lot of cyanide fish at that time was coming from. It was a place no American citizen goes without tons of armed escort. I brought the late David Baskin, an artist, into the area, sleeping in small deserted islands to see the place and its corals. I brought in the president of IMA and their guests to Jolo to see the training. After the training, I left IMA and went to Indonesia to earn money. That was outside of IMA because they cannot afford to pay me. In 1996, IMA contacted me to do work in Indonesia. After that, they told me to work full time in the Philippines, most of it in Mindanao. The moment I was asked to work full time, I close down the business to avoid any conflict of interest and I have not heard one word of complaint till now from my family who got affected by it. This all can be verified. Does this answer your accusations?

In retrospect, I should not have persuaded my family to close down. They gave a fair shake in pricing to collectors. Prices have not improved for a long time. Only a few want to treat collectors fairly. Life for them is a daily struggle.

I have actually had a timetable to suspend my activities and that was supposed to be last June. I have proven my point that things can be done right. Mortality can be low. A lot of different species can come into the market. But when I saw that I had the knack for opening up closed areas, having opened up two closed areas during MAC’s time that I thought was just being lucky and at present another wider area that can bring in more varieties of fish, and having the donated hand nets coming in, I thought it better to keep going. To keep going, I have been receiving some financial help from my family who believes in what I am doing. Most important is that I enjoy what I am doing and that I am doing it right.

When I decided not to suspend my activities I decided to help the people who have approached me to form another ornganization. EASI. The members are a former Humanrights Commisioner who mastered in Law of the Seas in Colombia University, a Environmental Lawyer, an expert in community capacity building and a high executive belonging to the biggest media outfit in the Philippines that was involve in the tourisim sector. They asked me to join and do my own trainings while they help me do the CDCRM. So what is wrong with that? One thing ssure is all of us in this organization does not have the crab mentality.

There are those in the US who believe in what I am doing and have supported me. There are importers there like Mary Middlebrook’s invaluable help by guiding me and kept me abreast with the results of shipments, so I can find the causes of failures and improve the shipments from the field up to shippers. There is Horge whom I have never met. There is Mike Kirda who has constantly been looking for ways to get different nets. There is Steve Robinson who is a good fellow trainer who sees the need of doing things the right way. There is my family there who has provided me the financial assistance because they believe in what I am doing. Too all these people and others that I have not mentioned I am grateful and I thank them on behalf of the collectors who are starting to benefit from all of them. Not only is it the collectors that are benefiting, but all the coastal dwellers that are affected by this industry.

As I said Jaime, we here are literally in the frontlines. We are the first one to feel the hit and misses instantaneously. If you and your companion over there still want to debate all these issues and any other issues in front of a forum, I am willing to go to the US anytime, if you think PI is not a conducive place for it. As I have always seen it, it is either we all work together for the good of the industry or the community dwellers which I find are the best approach or not. It does not matter to me.

And Jaime, I have always kept the line open between me and MAC as I do with other organizations. I have never closed it. MAC people and I have been talking for months and that includes Peter Scott. I saw to it that I take time out for these meetings with them. I have even given them a list of suggestions of methods of implementation to address issues I had in my resignation letter. While all these things are going on I have not asked them for anything or asked to work for them. I hope this answers any other malicious speculation of my wanting to get something out of MAC or wanting a salary from MAC. I hope it answers other future questions that might come out.

With Best Regards to you and your pals and no malice intended,
Ferdinand Cruz
.
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Crab mentality is not easily translated.

Basically, think of a bucket of crabs. To try to get out, a single crab must crawl on top of others to get to the top. Once he gets there and is able to get out, he is latched onto by all the other crabs below him, pulling him back down to the bottom of the bucket.

In the Philippines, my impression was that many in the reform movement were guilty of this: In fact, I heard it many times in many different contexts, many not related to reform at all. It may be one undesirable Filipino trait... I dunno. Too early to think much right now...

Regards.
MACNA-bound Mike
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Mike,
Crabs live all over the world.
I remember in high school being so confused over all the 'save the whale' groups that sprang up to cash in on the publics need to service the whale issue.
There was bitter infighting and as part of the knaive public I thought that they should just unite to save whales.
Now I relize that mixed in with the more sincere groups were the 'instant' ones that can appear as quickly as a fireworks roadside stand. They watered down the issue, muddied a common battle plan and competed like mad for donations from the public and for grant givers.
What do you do? Stay the course or dumb it down for the sake of convenience and to fit the grant seeking profile?
Career moves, turf, ego and money have always fueled movers in environmental movements...just as they do in the business culture. Where are the people of passion that start these movements? Manuevered out and taken over by more political savy players, thats where.
Its not a Filipino thing at all. The crab metaphor is though.
Steve
 

flameangel1

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
ferdiecruz
,,
Excellant letter here and your english was fine !!!!!
Although you stated things clearly , for some of us your response to Jaime's accusations were not necessary.
You have many supporters here and we all thank you for what you are doing for so many in this industry/hobby.
You are doing, what many of us wish we could !!!!
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
ferdiecruz":2hscvoe4 said:
To Jaime and Company,

I knew about the attacks of Jaime Baquero early on and had suspicions on who was actually behind the fabricated and malicious accusations. I thought it better not to join in the whole mud-slinging adventure, finding it better to concentrate on what I was doing in the field. This was until I received a call from a friend of mine confirming my suspicion of who was behind these malicious lies. I will not name names anymore. Naming names will just keep the mud slinging contest going and more skeletons in the closet of those who started this will come out. It just shows how dirty things can be when people are desperate to be recognized as the only authority in net training and other field exercises related to the ornamental industry. Unfortunately this kind of actions reflects on the organization they belong to even if their organization had nothing to do with it.
For me, it does not matter if they are recognized as the sole GURU in this field as long as in good conscience I know that I am doing right. At any given moment, I know I can always out-train them in techniques and development of collectors in this arena with a higher percentage of success. I have no intention of having a contest with anybody. The training field is wide enough for everybody to come in. My stand has always been either we are all welcome to put our heads together and work as one or work separately. Just don’t make things harder. Just don’t make false claims and cover-up problems. It makes work in this field very frustrating and makes it harder to accomplish anything. It makes other coastal dwellers suffer more. No one person can be right or claim he is right and that he can do the whole thing alone. I myself having been in the field so long that I must have grown barnacles on my body but still cannot claim that I am the only one right. In the field I always get opinions and feedback and talk to other people of other organizations before implementing something. No one person is a hero, a savior, or a great guy in this field.

It always disappoints me to have worked in the frontlines of this reform movement for so long and witness time and again the backslide of numerous collectors not because it is totally the collectors, exporters or importers fault, but because organizations who work in this field messed things up due to pigheadedness and a huge crab mentality. If at present any reform initiative mess things up, the LGU's (Local Government Units) will just get fed up and shut down collecting activities one by one in their area of responsibilities. That will be the end of the trade here. Not hype and bandwagon build-up, nor BFAR connections will solve the problems in the field, but a right and honest method of implementation will do it. We have to avoid eager environmental lawyers who would jump into the midst of this thing and would not hesitate to file a landmark environmental case against the government agencies, organizations and even the funding agencies just to make their name. AND believe me I have been approached by several “do-gooders”.

I myself at present have been experiencing a hard time opening up areas because of the LGU's outlook and suspicion that net trainings, or even certification and management plans are just one big scam. For example; Last Wednesday while eight hours on my way up to Appari (which is in the end of northern Luzon) I got a cellphone call from Bicol (in the tip of the southern portion of Luzon) that the program is being lambasted by the media there and that the governor and provincial fisheries were being criticized heavily and being asked to revoke the permits. I had to do a sudden U turn, and rushed to Bicol, driving all night and half a day. I met with the media, and the government officials to explain the way we were handling the program. It took almost the entire day to assure them and to get their total support. Had I not reached Bicol in time to explain in more detail the practical methods of implementation and how it is being done, the permits would have been cancelled. Why Bicol? Why Appari? Because the market needs angels, triggers and tangs among many others, and these areas have them in abundance.

I should issue a challenge to Jaime and company to prove their accusations against us but I find it childish. I do not think this is the proper way to find a solution to the problems that have pestered us for decades. I find it better to combine skills, expertise, and knowledge: a better way to once and for all solve this problem so those in the communities affected by the problems of this industry can finally have some breathing space in eking out their own living without blaming the industry for their hardships. .

Let me just clarify some things before I talk about PPP, where Jaime played a major role:
A lot of people kept asking me why I went on without any funding. The answer is simple. I had to show part of the way. If we do cover-ups now and we certify collectors and when one of them gets caught using some other methods to collect fish, then not only does it destroy the credibility of certification, but the LGUs (Local Government Unit) will close down collection of ornamental fish municipality by municipality. If a depleted area is certified, the marine eco-system will never be able to recover. But to show the way, we have to work on a vertical approach with people who are willing to try it, not trying to find ways to go around it. That is what I did and what I am doing now. Bear in mind that I have put in a lot of honest work in the methods of certification, so I do not want it to go to waste if it is possible or to be made a tool to hide illegal activities. I found the certification method of implementation full of holes that at the time nobody wanted to plug. Certification was being hyped and turned into a bandwagon that was being used for other purposes. I also needed to prove that other species can be caught in volume by nets and brought into the market.

Why Imperial and not those that were certified exporters of MAC? I left MAC so I can criticize the implementation method openly. It would be unethical to criticize them while I was in the organization. So it is but logical that I should not use MAC certified exporters nor touch their certified areas. Several other shippers approached me to join them. They had been shipping out to the Asian market successfully, but shipping out to the western countries, things were a disaster. To be honest about it, I was being offered some sort of fee, but I turned it down and instead asked that they donate some field materials, and in return receive high quality net caught fish. One of them formed Imperial and last January, when they were ready to operate, wanted to go 100% net caught. So in return, I volunteered to work with their technical staff without pay as long as we came to an agreement that they only handle net-caught fish, that they received fish properly without any under the table percentage for the screeners, and ship only net caught. We also had a common agreement that they share their fish with other shippers and try the US market, so I can prove that the method we were implementing was right. Imperial even shared their high-value angel fishes with others, even when these angels were just trickling in during the start of the agreement. They have shipped to the US and have proven that mortality can be very low and can stay low. That was all I asked from them. After having proved this, I have not mentioned or pushed Imperial on my own. They can take care of themselves and so far, the agreement between us has been honored. I have not gone there recently as often as I did in the early part of this year, except when a US buyer complains about a shipment that has to be corrected, or fish that has to have preventive medication. Right now, I am working to arrange a flow of net caught fish supply to more exporting outfits that is still not 100% net-caught

Why would I cut fish supply to a MAC certified exporter? It is not in my interest to cut off supply to anybody. The areas I am in are not certified areas. The areas where net caught fish come from are all over the Philippines. I have done training in those areas one way or another either during IMA’s time or before that when we were still in the business. I have tried to organize collectors to turn them to a more cohesive body in these areas.

When the collectors are ready to sell their fish, I have provided them with a list of five recommended exporters, all of who are willing to provide the collectors with a better price for their fish than the normal PTFEA pricing guidelines. (I do not think I have to remind you that these collectors have dealt with almost all the exporters at one time or another and have their own opinion and impression that even I cannot change nor influence.) In fact, one of them is MAC certified. It is up to the leaders amongst the collectors to decide where they should sell their fish. It is up to the exporters to deal with them fairly too. That is competition. In an area I have just opened up that has been closed to collection of ornamental fish for over a decade, I went as far as to tell the leader to call a MAC certified exporter to offer their fish, but they were turned down. I haven’t told these collectors where the donation of materials to hold fish in the areas comes from, so they are under no feeling of obligation to sell to that exporter. I have only told them the plastic net comes from a donation of a US group. Anybody can come down here and ask the collectors or the LGU people the truth to this anytime.

As far as the accusation of being paid, although I see nothing wrong with it having no affiliation at that time, I declined it for very obvious reasons. I do not want to be tied down by any exporter and forced to close my eyes. There is a time to earn money and there is a time to do things right. Doing things right should be first.

I find it funny that Steve and I are regarded as minor irritants that would soon be taken care of. We are not irritants. We are pointing out things that are wrong to protect the industry.

Jaime, do you remember the PPP? You were part of its creation. You attempted to federate the net-caught collectors that Haribon trained and to sell their fish abroad with the promise of better pricing that never was and the promise of better quality fish that never materialized. In that supposed federation, they even included collectors that I have trained pre-Haribon and IMA days. Jaime, at that time, you approached my family when PPP was being set up and my mother informed me by phone. I was in Indonesia then working in the tourism sector and not connected with IMA. They told me what PPPs goals were and I told them that they should help and offer to PPP net caught fish that they were getting from Palawan and Mindanao, so that PPP would have the variety that was needed to ship out. I knew that with only fish from Bolinao and Zambales, PPP will never be able to ship out and I believed at that time that it was one of the solutions to the multi-faceted problems of the industry. In one of my many trips back to the Philippines, I even met with PPPs University of the Philippines marine biologist Mr. Ben Vallejo Jr. and Juned Sonido , who hung out in the facility of my family a lot even pre-PPP days. They wanted to learn and asked a lot of questions. I answered those questions not begrudging them, even if they were regarded by the association as competitors being associated with PPP. Talks of conflict of interest were wide spread. In fact, I told them to get supplies of fish from my family so they can make a go of it. Ben and Juned could not only hang out, but were free to go in and out of the main holding system in our facility, something they never could do in other facilities. They were not welcome in other fish holding areas of the association. One of these guys eventually joined ICLARM and is doing great things.

What happened to the PPP? It was a pure waste of good intentions and money. It gave false hopes to collectors, and when they realized that nothing will happen, they went on a backsliding spree with a vengeance, thinking that they had been had. Nobody took time out to explain to them the reasons of why it failed, so they felt they had been used. News of this misadventure spread all over the PI unfortunately, making it harder for IMA to do its own training. Did I protest and say the whole thing was a conflict of interest, a fraud? Did I protest when our offer of net caught fish of wider variety was turned down? Where you able to ship out? Why was there no continuity in the whole thing? Here in the Philippines there is still a lot of question about PPP. There are still a lot of innuendoes. I do not want to join in it nor speculate on what happened.

Regarding my conflict of interest during IMAs days, I beg to disagree. When IMA tapped me to do training in the early 90s, they asked me to choose the site. I chose the killing fields of Jolo, where a lot of cyanide fish at that time was coming from. It was a place no American citizen goes without tons of armed escort. I brought the late David Baskin, an artist, into the area, sleeping in small deserted islands to see the place and its corals. I brought in the president of IMA and their guests to Jolo to see the training. After the training, I left IMA and went to Indonesia to earn money. That was outside of IMA because they cannot afford to pay me. In 1996, IMA contacted me to do work in Indonesia. After that, they told me to work full time in the Philippines, most of it in Mindanao. The moment I was asked to work full time, I close down the business to avoid any conflict of interest and I have not heard one word of complaint till now from my family who got affected by it. This all can be verified. Does this answer your accusations?

In retrospect, I should not have persuaded my family to close down. They gave a fair shake in pricing to collectors. Prices have not improved for a long time. Only a few want to treat collectors fairly. Life for them is a daily struggle.

I have actually had a timetable to suspend my activities and that was supposed to be last June. I have proven my point that things can be done right. Mortality can be low. A lot of different species can come into the market. But when I saw that I had the knack for opening up closed areas, having opened up two closed areas during MAC’s time that I thought was just being lucky and at present another wider area that can bring in more varieties of fish, and having the donated hand nets coming in, I thought it better to keep going. To keep going, I have been receiving some financial help from my family who believes in what I am doing. Most important is that I enjoy what I am doing and that I am doing it right.

When I decided not to suspend my activities I decided to help the people who have approached me to form another ornganization. EASI. The members are a former Humanrights Commisioner who mastered in Law of the Seas in Colombia University, a Environmental Lawyer, an expert in community capacity building and a high executive belonging to the biggest media outfit in the Philippines that was involve in the tourisim sector. They asked me to join and do my own trainings while they help me do the CDCRM. So what is wrong with that? One thing ssure is all of us in this organization does not have the crab mentality.

There are those in the US who believe in what I am doing and have supported me. There are importers there like Mary Middlebrook’s invaluable help by guiding me and kept me abreast with the results of shipments, so I can find the causes of failures and improve the shipments from the field up to shippers. There is Horge whom I have never met. There is Mike Kirda who has constantly been looking for ways to get different nets. There is Steve Robinson who is a good fellow trainer who sees the need of doing things the right way. There is my family there who has provided me the financial assistance because they believe in what I am doing. Too all these people and others that I have not mentioned I am grateful and I thank them on behalf of the collectors who are starting to benefit from all of them. Not only is it the collectors that are benefiting, but all the coastal dwellers that are affected by this industry.

As I said Jaime, we here are literally in the frontlines. We are the first one to feel the hit and misses instantaneously. If you and your companion over there still want to debate all these issues and any other issues in front of a forum, I am willing to go to the US anytime, if you think PI is not a conducive place for it. As I have always seen it, it is either we all work together for the good of the industry or the community dwellers which I find are the best approach or not. It does not matter to me.

And Jaime, I have always kept the line open between me and MAC as I do with other organizations. I have never closed it. MAC people and I have been talking for months and that includes Peter Scott. I saw to it that I take time out for these meetings with them. I have even given them a list of suggestions of methods of implementation to address issues I had in my resignation letter. While all these things are going on I have not asked them for anything or asked to work for them. I hope this answers any other malicious speculation of my wanting to get something out of MAC or wanting a salary from MAC. I hope it answers other future questions that might come out.

With Best Regards to you and your pals and no malice intended,
Ferdinand Cruz
.

Ferdinand Cruz,

I am really disappointed , but after all that was the kind of response I was expecting. You know, we have the same roots (Spaniards). You are very good at touching people feelings. I almost cry when reading your post. I see that some questions didn't get answers. I'll re-read your post and will back to you. When did you start working for IMA? Who is PPP?

J.
 

MaryHM

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime,

I think we all understand the fact that there is absolutely nothing Ferdinand could say that would be "acceptable" to you. No matter what is said, you will either take it out of context or twist it to mean something opposite. You aren't interested in hearing the truth. You're interested in villifying Ferdinand. And personally I think it's sad. As a businesswoman and reformist, I would prefer Ferdinand be out in the field training collectors and opening new areas so the net caught movement can continue marching forward vs. being in here answering to silly accusations. Something else I'd like to point out. In the beginning, when I asked Ferdinand what I could do to help, he said "SEND NETS, NOT MONEY". He specifically told me NOT to send money. Just thought that was revelant, although I doubt you will.
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
MaryHM":8xe9eftf said:
Jaime,

I think we all understand the fact that there is absolutely nothing Ferdinand could say that would be "acceptable" to you. No matter what is said, you will either take it out of context or twist it to mean something opposite. You aren't interested in hearing the truth. You're interested in villifying Ferdinand. And personally I think it's sad. As a businesswoman and reformist, I would prefer Ferdinand be out in the field training collectors and opening new areas so the net caught movement can continue marching forward vs. being in here answering to silly accusations. Something else I'd like to point out. In the beginning, when I asked Ferdinand what I could do to help, he said "SEND NETS, NOT MONEY". He specifically told me NOT to send money. Just thought that was revelant, although I doubt you will.

Geez Mary,

Nets are MONEY, no doubt you are very naive! US$25 are only US$25, but the same US$25 in nets can make US$ hundreds in fish a year.
Mary, I am not twisting anything, I didn't get the answers,instead Mr. Cruz is taking a considerable part of his response to talk about PPP? I do not know what PPP is. He is talking about something he didn't know and still doesn't exist.... ppp? anyways it was not the subject of the thread, I see Mr. Cruz is diverting readers attention to something different, he is very good at "diverting". I'll respond to his post.

Jaime
 

MaryHM

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Please prove to me Jaime that Ferdinand is making money in off the industry in some unscrupulous manner. Prove it. Quit accusing and show me some facts. FACTS. HARD FACTS. Where are they Jaime? I'm awaiting your response.
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
ferdiecruz":1l2y7wz9 said:
To Jaime and Company,

I knew about the attacks of Jaime Baquero early on and had suspicions on who was actually behind the fabricated and malicious accusations. I thought it better not to join in the whole mud-slinging adventure, finding it better to concentrate on what I was doing in the field. This was until I received a call from a friend of mine confirming my suspicion of who was behind these malicious lies. I will not name names anymore. Naming names will just keep the mud slinging contest going and more skeletons in the closet of those who started this will come out. It just shows how dirty things can be when people are desperate to be recognized as the only authority in net training and other field exercises related to the ornamental industry. Unfortunately this kind of actions reflects on the organization they belong to even if their organization had nothing to do with it.
For me, it does not matter if they are recognized as the sole GURU in this field as long as in good conscience I know that I am doing right. At any given moment, I know I can always out-train them in techniques and development of collectors in this arena with a higher percentage of success. I have no intention of having a contest with anybody. The training field is wide enough for everybody to come in. My stand has always been either we are all welcome to put our heads together and work as one or work separately. Just don’t make things harder. Just don’t make false claims and cover-up problems. It makes work in this field very frustrating and makes it harder to accomplish anything. It makes other coastal dwellers suffer more. No one person can be right or claim he is right and that he can do the whole thing alone. I myself having been in the field so long that I must have grown barnacles on my body but still cannot claim that I am the only one right. In the field I always get opinions and feedback and talk to other people of other organizations before implementing something. No one person is a hero, a savior, or a great guy in this field.

It always disappoints me to have worked in the frontlines of this reform movement for so long and witness time and again the backslide of numerous collectors not because it is totally the collectors, exporters or importers fault, but because organizations who work in this field messed things up due to pigheadedness and a huge crab mentality. If at present any reform initiative mess things up, the LGU's (Local Government Units) will just get fed up and shut down collecting activities one by one in their area of responsibilities. That will be the end of the trade here. Not hype and bandwagon build-up, nor BFAR connections will solve the problems in the field, but a right and honest method of implementation will do it. We have to avoid eager environmental lawyers who would jump into the midst of this thing and would not hesitate to file a landmark environmental case against the government agencies, organizations and even the funding agencies just to make their name. AND believe me I have been approached by several “do-gooders”.

I myself at present have been experiencing a hard time opening up areas because of the LGU's outlook and suspicion that net trainings, or even certification and management plans are just one big scam. For example; Last Wednesday while eight hours on my way up to Appari (which is in the end of northern Luzon) I got a cellphone call from Bicol (in the tip of the southern portion of Luzon) that the program is being lambasted by the media there and that the governor and provincial fisheries were being criticized heavily and being asked to revoke the permits. I had to do a sudden U turn, and rushed to Bicol, driving all night and half a day. I met with the media, and the government officials to explain the way we were handling the program. It took almost the entire day to assure them and to get their total support. Had I not reached Bicol in time to explain in more detail the practical methods of implementation and how it is being done, the permits would have been cancelled. Why Bicol? Why Appari? Because the market needs angels, triggers and tangs among many others, and these areas have them in abundance.

I should issue a challenge to Jaime and company to prove their accusations against us but I find it childish. I do not think this is the proper way to find a solution to the problems that have pestered us for decades. I find it better to combine skills, expertise, and knowledge: a better way to once and for all solve this problem so those in the communities affected by the problems of this industry can finally have some breathing space in eking out their own living without blaming the industry for their hardships. .

Let me just clarify some things before I talk about PPP, where Jaime played a major role:
A lot of people kept asking me why I went on without any funding. The answer is simple. I had to show part of the way. If we do cover-ups now and we certify collectors and when one of them gets caught using some other methods to collect fish, then not only does it destroy the credibility of certification, but the LGUs (Local Government Unit) will close down collection of ornamental fish municipality by municipality. If a depleted area is certified, the marine eco-system will never be able to recover. But to show the way, we have to work on a vertical approach with people who are willing to try it, not trying to find ways to go around it. That is what I did and what I am doing now. Bear in mind that I have put in a lot of honest work in the methods of certification, so I do not want it to go to waste if it is possible or to be made a tool to hide illegal activities. I found the certification method of implementation full of holes that at the time nobody wanted to plug. Certification was being hyped and turned into a bandwagon that was being used for other purposes. I also needed to prove that other species can be caught in volume by nets and brought into the market.

Why Imperial and not those that were certified exporters of MAC? I left MAC so I can criticize the implementation method openly. It would be unethical to criticize them while I was in the organization. So it is but logical that I should not use MAC certified exporters nor touch their certified areas. Several other shippers approached me to join them. They had been shipping out to the Asian market successfully, but shipping out to the western countries, things were a disaster. To be honest about it, I was being offered some sort of fee, but I turned it down and instead asked that they donate some field materials, and in return receive high quality net caught fish. One of them formed Imperial and last January, when they were ready to operate, wanted to go 100% net caught. So in return, I volunteered to work with their technical staff without pay as long as we came to an agreement that they only handle net-caught fish, that they received fish properly without any under the table percentage for the screeners, and ship only net caught. We also had a common agreement that they share their fish with other shippers and try the US market, so I can prove that the method we were implementing was right. Imperial even shared their high-value angel fishes with others, even when these angels were just trickling in during the start of the agreement. They have shipped to the US and have proven that mortality can be very low and can stay low. That was all I asked from them. After having proved this, I have not mentioned or pushed Imperial on my own. They can take care of themselves and so far, the agreement between us has been honored. I have not gone there recently as often as I did in the early part of this year, except when a US buyer complains about a shipment that has to be corrected, or fish that has to have preventive medication. Right now, I am working to arrange a flow of net caught fish supply to more exporting outfits that is still not 100% net-caught

Why would I cut fish supply to a MAC certified exporter? It is not in my interest to cut off supply to anybody. The areas I am in are not certified areas. The areas where net caught fish come from are all over the Philippines. I have done training in those areas one way or another either during IMA’s time or before that when we were still in the business. I have tried to organize collectors to turn them to a more cohesive body in these areas.

When the collectors are ready to sell their fish, I have provided them with a list of five recommended exporters, all of who are willing to provide the collectors with a better price for their fish than the normal PTFEA pricing guidelines. (I do not think I have to remind you that these collectors have dealt with almost all the exporters at one time or another and have their own opinion and impression that even I cannot change nor influence.) In fact, one of them is MAC certified. It is up to the leaders amongst the collectors to decide where they should sell their fish. It is up to the exporters to deal with them fairly too. That is competition. In an area I have just opened up that has been closed to collection of ornamental fish for over a decade, I went as far as to tell the leader to call a MAC certified exporter to offer their fish, but they were turned down. I haven’t told these collectors where the donation of materials to hold fish in the areas comes from, so they are under no feeling of obligation to sell to that exporter. I have only told them the plastic net comes from a donation of a US group. Anybody can come down here and ask the collectors or the LGU people the truth to this anytime.

As far as the accusation of being paid, although I see nothing wrong with it having no affiliation at that time, I declined it for very obvious reasons. I do not want to be tied down by any exporter and forced to close my eyes. There is a time to earn money and there is a time to do things right. Doing things right should be first.

I find it funny that Steve and I are regarded as minor irritants that would soon be taken care of. We are not irritants. We are pointing out things that are wrong to protect the industry.

Jaime, do you remember the PPP? You were part of its creation. You attempted to federate the net-caught collectors that Haribon trained and to sell their fish abroad with the promise of better pricing that never was and the promise of better quality fish that never materialized. In that supposed federation, they even included collectors that I have trained pre-Haribon and IMA days. Jaime, at that time, you approached my family when PPP was being set up and my mother informed me by phone. I was in Indonesia then working in the tourism sector and not connected with IMA. They told me what PPPs goals were and I told them that they should help and offer to PPP net caught fish that they were getting from Palawan and Mindanao, so that PPP would have the variety that was needed to ship out. I knew that with only fish from Bolinao and Zambales, PPP will never be able to ship out and I believed at that time that it was one of the solutions to the multi-faceted problems of the industry. In one of my many trips back to the Philippines, I even met with PPPs University of the Philippines marine biologist Mr. Ben Vallejo Jr. and Juned Sonido , who hung out in the facility of my family a lot even pre-PPP days. They wanted to learn and asked a lot of questions. I answered those questions not begrudging them, even if they were regarded by the association as competitors being associated with PPP. Talks of conflict of interest were wide spread. In fact, I told them to get supplies of fish from my family so they can make a go of it. Ben and Juned could not only hang out, but were free to go in and out of the main holding system in our facility, something they never could do in other facilities. They were not welcome in other fish holding areas of the association. One of these guys eventually joined ICLARM and is doing great things.

What happened to the PPP? It was a pure waste of good intentions and money. It gave false hopes to collectors, and when they realized that nothing will happen, they went on a backsliding spree with a vengeance, thinking that they had been had. Nobody took time out to explain to them the reasons of why it failed, so they felt they had been used. News of this misadventure spread all over the PI unfortunately, making it harder for IMA to do its own training. Did I protest and say the whole thing was a conflict of interest, a fraud? Did I protest when our offer of net caught fish of wider variety was turned down? Where you able to ship out? Why was there no continuity in the whole thing? Here in the Philippines there is still a lot of question about PPP. There are still a lot of innuendoes. I do not want to join in it nor speculate on what happened.

Regarding my conflict of interest during IMAs days, I beg to disagree. When IMA tapped me to do training in the early 90s, they asked me to choose the site. I chose the killing fields of Jolo, where a lot of cyanide fish at that time was coming from. It was a place no American citizen goes without tons of armed escort. I brought the late David Baskin, an artist, into the area, sleeping in small deserted islands to see the place and its corals. I brought in the president of IMA and their guests to Jolo to see the training. After the training, I left IMA and went to Indonesia to earn money. That was outside of IMA because they cannot afford to pay me. In 1996, IMA contacted me to do work in Indonesia. After that, they told me to work full time in the Philippines, most of it in Mindanao. The moment I was asked to work full time, I close down the business to avoid any conflict of interest and I have not heard one word of complaint till now from my family who got affected by it. This all can be verified. Does this answer your accusations?

In retrospect, I should not have persuaded my family to close down. They gave a fair shake in pricing to collectors. Prices have not improved for a long time. Only a few want to treat collectors fairly. Life for them is a daily struggle.

I have actually had a timetable to suspend my activities and that was supposed to be last June. I have proven my point that things can be done right. Mortality can be low. A lot of different species can come into the market. But when I saw that I had the knack for opening up closed areas, having opened up two closed areas during MAC’s time that I thought was just being lucky and at present another wider area that can bring in more varieties of fish, and having the donated hand nets coming in, I thought it better to keep going. To keep going, I have been receiving some financial help from my family who believes in what I am doing. Most important is that I enjoy what I am doing and that I am doing it right.

When I decided not to suspend my activities I decided to help the people who have approached me to form another ornganization. EASI. The members are a former Humanrights Commisioner who mastered in Law of the Seas in Colombia University, a Environmental Lawyer, an expert in community capacity building and a high executive belonging to the biggest media outfit in the Philippines that was involve in the tourisim sector. They asked me to join and do my own trainings while they help me do the CDCRM. So what is wrong with that? One thing ssure is all of us in this organization does not have the crab mentality.

There are those in the US who believe in what I am doing and have supported me. There are importers there like Mary Middlebrook’s invaluable help by guiding me and kept me abreast with the results of shipments, so I can find the causes of failures and improve the shipments from the field up to shippers. There is Horge whom I have never met. There is Mike Kirda who has constantly been looking for ways to get different nets. There is Steve Robinson who is a good fellow trainer who sees the need of doing things the right way. There is my family there who has provided me the financial assistance because they believe in what I am doing. Too all these people and others that I have not mentioned I am grateful and I thank them on behalf of the collectors who are starting to benefit from all of them. Not only is it the collectors that are benefiting, but all the coastal dwellers that are affected by this industry.

As I said Jaime, we here are literally in the frontlines. We are the first one to feel the hit and misses instantaneously. If you and your companion over there still want to debate all these issues and any other issues in front of a forum, I am willing to go to the US anytime, if you think PI is not a conducive place for it. As I have always seen it, it is either we all work together for the good of the industry or the community dwellers which I find are the best approach or not. It does not matter to me.

And Jaime, I have always kept the line open between me and MAC as I do with other organizations. I have never closed it. MAC people and I have been talking for months and that includes Peter Scott. I saw to it that I take time out for these meetings with them. I have even given them a list of suggestions of methods of implementation to address issues I had in my resignation letter. While all these things are going on I have not asked them for anything or asked to work for them. I hope this answers any other malicious speculation of my wanting to get something out of MAC or wanting a salary from MAC. I hope it answers other future questions that might come out.

With Best Regards to you and your pals and no malice intended,
Ferdinand Cruz
.

Mr. Cruz,

To start, I really want to thank you for taking the time to reply to the thread in question. After reading your post I see that there are some statements that are not accurate. I am not desesperate to be recognized as an authority in net training and other field exercises related to this industry. I am just an individual who worked with"some" honest Filipino people helping to find solutions to the problems the trade has created in your country. My contribution was small, the projects I was involved were not perfect but some good results came from them.

Your description about the PMP project is not complete. This is not the subject of the thread but I will present one important fact that contributed to the failure of that PILOT PROJECT. At the same time, it can help the readers to have a better idea about how difficult is to work in the Philippines and also how "loyal" people can be. The President of PMP, Jetro, was bought(he was getting money under the table) by the manager of one of the major exporters facilities in Manila, Monette was his name. This Monette was paying Jetro to create a revolt within the same Federation and he did. Collectors selling fish to PMP were blacklisted by the same Filipinos. Power, control and money talk very loud in your country. There is nothing you can do to solve it. To finish with this, Monette was one believer that cyanide doesn't kill coral reefs. Do you know what happened to the company he was working for?

Regarding your business operation I was in the Philippines in 1995 and your business was open I visited it. No name told me that your business was being used to move fish to Europe and japan, those fish were coming from an project in Sulu.

Why would you cut fish supply to a MAC certified exporter? Mr. Cruz I was not the one who wrote and I quote " Still I have not prevented any fish from flowing into her outfit" this is your statement in an e-mail sent to N. America in April 9, 2003. You said you were disappointed with Marivi's stand. In simple and plain English, Stilll I have not prevented, means that you were thinking about taking some action. It seems to me that MAC certified people are going to be punished by you. Could you please clarify?

Now I have these collectors diverting half their shipment to Imperial and Habitat (this was before you got dissapointed with Marivi's stand) e-mail sent to N. America April 7, 2003. " I have these collectors" sounds to my that you control them. ????

You mentioned in your post S.Robinson. There is something I can not understand, according to a reliable source (I agree with you better not name names), you and Robinson have developed very recently, a "relationship" . Robinson has been attacking NGOs and their personnel of wrong doing. You, Mr. Cruz, worked during many years with the organizations Robinson is attacking. I know that you and Robinson didn't get along. Why is that?

You know as I do that is very difficult to get concrete proofs of all these. We can be in an endless vicious circle of denial and questioning. The only concrete evidence I have in my hands are a couple of e-mails sent by you to N. America. Those e-mails and long phone conversations with a "reliable" source of information have been the factors creating doubts in my mind.

I do care about fish collectors in the Philippines. I do not want them to be exploited anylonger. I do believe that MAC is the last alternative collectors and the industry in the Philippines have.

Jaime
 

npaden

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I do care about fish collectors in the Philippines. I do not want them to be exploited anylonger. I do believe that MAC is the last alternative collectors and the industry in the Philippines have.

MAC has had decades and tens of thousands of dollars to accomplish what Mary and Ferdinand have accomplished with a simple appeal to hobbyists to send money to allow net collectors to actually have nets to collect with. I think most people have given up on MAC accomplishing anything except give out alot of empty promises.

The main point that you seem upset with is that Ferdinand is training net collectors in areas that are not MAC certified and they are selling net collected fish to exporters who are not MAC certified. Instead of bitching about what he is doing to end cyanide use why don't you spend your time and effort training additional net collectors in the MAC certified areas than can sell net collected fish to MAC certified exporters?

FWIW, Nathan
 

blue hula3

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
G'day from Down Under

I hesitated to wade into this one but feel the responsibility of responding to Jaime's allegations and logic should be shared where possible.

Also, I respect the time and energy it took for Mr. Cruz to craft such a response given the minefield into which it would be launched. I appreciate that he did so and found it helpful. Guess I just got sucked in by all that latin eloquence.

But to the task at hand:

Jaime Baquero":f5hs6cbj said:
Your description about the PMP project is not complete. This is not the subject of the thread but I will present one important fact that contributed to the failure of that PILOT PROJECT. At the same time, it can help the readers to have a better idea about how difficult is to work in the Philippines and also how "loyal" people can be. The President of PMP, Jetro, was bought(he was getting money under the table) by the manager of one of the major exporters facilities in Manila, Monette was his name. This Monette was paying Jetro to create a revolt within the same Federation and he did. Collectors selling fish to PMP were blacklisted by the same Filipinos. Power, control and money talk very loud in your country. There is nothing you can do to solve it. To finish with this, Monette was one believer that cyanide doesn't kill coral reefs. Do you know what happened to the company he was working for?

In the long history of the aquarium trade in the Philippines and the many personalities involved, it would be impossible for any story to be fully told and any such detailing of it would most likely lose the message in the trivia. I fail to see the point.

I am also afraid Jaime that your explanation for why the pilot project floundered is unconvincing. I find it difficult to believe that anyone with a reasonable amount of professional experience in the Philippines wouldn't take into account the complex social reality that is sometimes "corruption" and sometimes something else. The "oops, our otherwise perfect project failed because we didn't take into account the local conditions" is lame at best.

I also find it difficult to understand why someone like yourself who has dealt with cross- cultural issues (your previous posts about language for instance, time in the Philippines) would feel comfortable making inferences about loyalty and corruption. I find that I must frequently suspend my north-american conclusions about what exactly constitutes loyalty and to whom in many of the countries where I have worked and lived.

Make no mistake - I am not being politically correct to the extent of saying there is no corruption in the Philippines. I just find it an unconvincing excuse or "smoking gun". There is corruption there as there is everywhere (reconstruction contracts for Iraq jump to mind as one of the grossest examples at the moment).

Jaime Baquero":f5hs6cbj said:
Why would you cut fish supply to a MAC certified exporter? Mr. Cruz I was not the one who wrote and I quote " Still I have not prevented any fish from flowing into her outfit" this is your statement in an e-mail sent to N. America in April 9, 2003. You said you were disappointed with Marivi's stand. In simple and plain English, Stilll I have not prevented, means that you were thinking about taking some action. It seems to me that MAC certified people are going to be punished by you. Could you please clarify?

Now I have these collectors diverting half their shipment to Imperial and Habitat (this was before you got dissapointed with Marivi's stand) e-mail sent to N. America April 7, 2003. " I have these collectors" sounds to my that you control them. ????

My goodness, I had no idea that statements had to be so carefully crafted. I read:

"Still, I have not prevented ..."

as a clear statement that despite a difference of opinion, he is not interfering in anything Marivi (or others) is doing. There is no implied threat or implied intent in that statement. No doubt, biased screening can generate any interpretation you like but if that is the extent of the evidence ...

Jaime Baquero":f5hs6cbj said:
Now I have these collectors diverting half their shipment to Imperial and Habitat (this was before you got dissapointed with Marivi's stand) e-mail sent to N. America April 7, 2003. " I have these collectors" sounds to my that you control them. ????

How about interpreting it "As a result of our discussions (and because they recognise it as a good deal), the collectors divert half their shipments to Imerial and Habitat". That's what I get out of this quotation.

I have also noticed that those who speak any of the romance languages (French, Italian, Spanish) tend to build longer sentences in English than would a native English speaker (and yes, I speak English, French, Dutch and a smattering of other languages so have some basis for this statement). While I found Mr. Cruz's last post very well written and clear, we all carry idiosynracies of our linguistic histories.

Jaime Baquero":f5hs6cbj said:
You mentioned in your post S.Robinson. There is something I can not understand, according to a reliable source (I agree with you better not name names), you and Robinson have developed very recently, a "relationship" . Robinson has been attacking NGOs and their personnel of wrong doing. You, Mr. Cruz, worked during many years with the organizations Robinson is attacking. I know that you and Robinson didn't get along. Why is that?

Steve Robinson

oops - now I have done it too !

That Mr. Cruz and Mr. Robinson communicate currently despite some alleged past differences and even perhaps ongoing differences of opinion attests to their professionalism and ability to accept different views. Maintaining open communication lines is a GOOD thing. Not a nefarious plot.

Jaime Baquero":f5hs6cbj said:
You know as I do that is very difficult to get concrete proofs of all these. We can be in an endless vicious circle of denial and questioning. The only concrete evidence I have in my hands are a couple of e-mails sent by you to N. America. Those e-mails and long phone conversations with a "reliable" source of information have been the factors creating doubts in my mind.

By the way, since you are quite happy to publicly accuse the past president of PMP of corruption by name, why are you so careful to shield your "reliable" source. I'm not particularly interested as "reliability" and the nature of the allegations leveled at Mr. Cruz don't go together so the person's identity is irrelevant. I just think you should accord the same level of ethics in naming people to both those you agree with and those you don't.

Jaime Baquero":f5hs6cbj said:
I do care about fish collectors in the Philippines. I do not want them to be exploited anylonger. I do believe that MAC is the last alternative collectors and the industry in the Philippines have.

Well, if MAC is the only hope, I reckon the Philippines is screwed. Not because MAC is or is not doing a good job but because (1) the problem is widespread and will require more resources than even a reportedly well funded operation like MAC can throw at it and (2) different areas may require different solutions thus having a number of groups, each with their strengths and weaknesses working in the area is a positive. We can learn quickly what works if there is a wide range of strategies applied.

Why is there a need to put all our eggs in a single basket and build an empire for one organisation? Oh yeah, it's the crab in the basket thing.

In closing Jaime, I'd like to say that my posting here reflects a departure from my usual mode. I've been more willing to post where there was a technical issue in question (e.g. some of the fisheries stuff) or where I was familiar with the specific topic (sanctuary zones in batasan, seahorses). I also remain interested in understanding how exactly MAC determines sustainability in their CAMPs in terms of the fish populations themselves rather than the presence/absence of cyanide.

However, I have found your allegations so distastful and unprofessional that I have been compelled to respond.

Jessica Meeuwig
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
blue hula3":rhkapa69 said:
G'day from Down Under

I hesitated to wade into this one but feel the responsibility of responding to Jaime's allegations and logic should be shared where possible.

Also, I respect the time and energy it took for Mr. Cruz to craft such a response given the minefield into which it would be launched. I appreciate that he did so and found it helpful. Guess I just got sucked in by all that latin eloquence.

But to the task at hand:

Jaime Baquero":rhkapa69 said:
Your description about the PMP project is not complete. This is not the subject of the thread but I will present one important fact that contributed to the failure of that PILOT PROJECT. At the same time, it can help the readers to have a better idea about how difficult is to work in the Philippines and also how "loyal" people can be. The President of PMP, Jetro, was bought(he was getting money under the table) by the manager of one of the major exporters facilities in Manila, Monette was his name. This Monette was paying Jetro to create a revolt within the same Federation and he did. Collectors selling fish to PMP were blacklisted by the same Filipinos. Power, control and money talk very loud in your country. There is nothing you can do to solve it. To finish with this, Monette was one believer that cyanide doesn't kill coral reefs. Do you know what happened to the company he was working for?

In the long history of the aquarium trade in the Philippines and the many personalities involved, it would be impossible for any story to be fully told and any such detailing of it would most likely lose the message in the trivia. I fail to see the point.

I am also afraid Jaime that your explanation for why the pilot project floundered is unconvincing. I find it difficult to believe that anyone with a reasonable amount of professional experience in the Philippines wouldn't take into account the complex social reality that is sometimes "corruption" and sometimes something else. The "oops, our otherwise perfect project failed because we didn't take into account the local conditions" is lame at best.

I also find it difficult to understand why someone like yourself who has dealt with cross- cultural issues (your previous posts about language for instance, time in the Philippines) would feel comfortable making inferences about loyalty and corruption. I find that I must frequently suspend my north-american conclusions about what exactly constitutes loyalty and to whom in many of the countries where I have worked and lived.

Make no mistake - I am not being politically correct to the extent of saying there is no corruption in the Philippines. I just find it an unconvincing excuse or "smoking gun". There is corruption there as there is everywhere (reconstruction contracts for Iraq jump to mind as one of the grossest examples at the moment).

Jaime Baquero":rhkapa69 said:
Why would you cut fish supply to a MAC certified exporter? Mr. Cruz I was not the one who wrote and I quote " Still I have not prevented any fish from flowing into her outfit" this is your statement in an e-mail sent to N. America in April 9, 2003. You said you were disappointed with Marivi's stand. In simple and plain English, Stilll I have not prevented, means that you were thinking about taking some action. It seems to me that MAC certified people are going to be punished by you. Could you please clarify?

Now I have these collectors diverting half their shipment to Imperial and Habitat (this was before you got dissapointed with Marivi's stand) e-mail sent to N. America April 7, 2003. " I have these collectors" sounds to my that you control them. ????

My goodness, I had no idea that statements had to be so carefully crafted. I read:

"Still, I have not prevented ..."

as a clear statement that despite a difference of opinion, he is not interfering in anything Marivi (or others) is doing. There is no implied threat or implied intent in that statement. No doubt, biased screening can generate any interpretation you like but if that is the extent of the evidence ...

Jaime Baquero":rhkapa69 said:
Now I have these collectors diverting half their shipment to Imperial and Habitat (this was before you got dissapointed with Marivi's stand) e-mail sent to N. America April 7, 2003. " I have these collectors" sounds to my that you control them. ????

How about interpreting it "As a result of our discussions (and because they recognise it as a good deal), the collectors divert half their shipments to Imerial and Habitat". That's what I get out of this quotation.

I have also noticed that those who speak any of the romance languages (French, Italian, Spanish) tend to build longer sentences in English than would a native English speaker (and yes, I speak English, French, Dutch and a smattering of other languages so have some basis for this statement). While I found Mr. Cruz's last post very well written and clear, we all carry idiosynracies of our linguistic histories.

Jaime Baquero":rhkapa69 said:
You mentioned in your post S.Robinson. There is something I can not understand, according to a reliable source (I agree with you better not name names), you and Robinson have developed very recently, a "relationship" . Robinson has been attacking NGOs and their personnel of wrong doing. You, Mr. Cruz, worked during many years with the organizations Robinson is attacking. I know that you and Robinson didn't get along. Why is that?

Steve Robinson

oops - now I have done it too !

That Mr. Cruz and Mr. Robinson communicate currently despite some alleged past differences and even perhaps ongoing differences of opinion attests to their professionalism and ability to accept different views. Maintaining open communication lines is a GOOD thing. Not a nefarious plot.

Jaime Baquero":rhkapa69 said:
You know as I do that is very difficult to get concrete proofs of all these. We can be in an endless vicious circle of denial and questioning. The only concrete evidence I have in my hands are a couple of e-mails sent by you to N. America. Those e-mails and long phone conversations with a "reliable" source of information have been the factors creating doubts in my mind.

By the way, since you are quite happy to publicly accuse the past president of PMP of corruption by name, why are you so careful to shield your "reliable" source. I'm not particularly interested as "reliability" and the nature of the allegations leveled at Mr. Cruz don't go together so the person's identity is irrelevant. I just think you should accord the same level of ethics in naming people to both those you agree with and those you don't.

Jaime Baquero":rhkapa69 said:
I do care about fish collectors in the Philippines. I do not want them to be exploited anylonger. I do believe that MAC is the last alternative collectors and the industry in the Philippines have.

Well, if MAC is the only hope, I reckon the Philippines is screwed. Not because MAC is or is not doing a good job but because (1) the problem is widespread and will require more resources than even a reportedly well funded operation like MAC can throw at it and (2) different areas may require different solutions thus having a number of groups, each with their strengths and weaknesses working in the area is a positive. We can learn quickly what works if there is a wide range of strategies applied.

Why is there a need to put all our eggs in a single basket and build an empire for one organisation? Oh yeah, it's the crab in the basket thing.

In closing Jaime, I'd like to say that my posting here reflects a departure from my usual mode. I've been more willing to post where there was a technical issue in question (e.g. some of the fisheries stuff) or where I was familiar with the specific topic (sanctuary zones in batasan, seahorses). I also remain interested in understanding how exactly MAC determines sustainability in their CAMPs in terms of the fish populations themselves rather than the presence/absence of cyanide.

However, I have found your allegations so distastful and unprofessional that I have been compelled to respond.

Jessica Meeuwig

Jessica Meeuwig,


Those sentences can be interpreted in different ways. I know, just a comma can change the meaning of a phrase. By knowing the background of a person is enough to better understand what he or she is saying.


The PMP project floundered because of MANY reasons. The factor that I just mentioned was one and only one. I was not expecting that ONE Filipino involved in the PMP project could get that low trying to sell the whole Association for a few pesos. He was fired by the same collectors and banned from the group. PMP was not the subject of this thread. It was Mr Cruz' and pals strategy to include it to divert attention.

In relation to the other issues you can think and say whatever you like. Background information of people involved is in some cases disturbing.

Undermining tactics to get the collectors in revolt against MAC took place in april.

Jaime
 

blue hula3

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":1ikhpx3j said:
Background information of people involved is in some cases disturbing.

You mean unsupported allegations about people's supposed motives from unnamed sources in an environment where huge egos abound ??

Sorry I need more than that. Guess as a scientist I'm partial to facts.

When was the last time you were out in the field, Jaime ?

How about putting a lid on the allegations until you have some evidence you can share ?

Jessica
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
npaden":3l2kj4q3 said:
I do care about fish collectors in the Philippines. I do not want them to be exploited anylonger. I do believe that MAC is the last alternative collectors and the industry in the Philippines have.

MAC has had decades and tens of thousands of dollars to accomplish what Mary and Ferdinand have accomplished with a simple appeal to hobbyists to send money to allow net collectors to actually have nets to collect with. I think most people have given up on MAC accomplishing anything except give out alot of empty promises.

The main point that you seem upset with is that Ferdinand is training net collectors in areas that are not MAC certified and they are selling net collected fish to exporters who are not MAC certified. Instead of bitching about what he is doing to end cyanide use why don't you spend your time and effort training additional net collectors in the MAC certified areas than can sell net collected fish to MAC certified exporters?

FWIW, Nathan

Npaden,

MAC was created only in 1997. It took a while to get things underway. They started working in the Philippines only a few years ago.

Npaden, I spent thousands of hours of volunteer work between 1989 and 2000 contributing somehow to find solutions to the different problems the trade of ornamentals faces in the Philippines. We did a good job training hundreds of collectors to use nets instead of cyanide. This net training was only one of the components of our projects. Community organizing and environmental education were also part of the programs. I consider my contribution was important. During those years of work , the industry didn't respond to our calls for help which without doubt would show a different picture today.


Npaden, what the anti-MAC group have been doing for months is undermining MAC initiatives. There are behind the scenes activities to accomplish that. Discrediting, misinforming and misleading the readers have been strategies of the individuals attacking MAC and other NGO's . The work done in the past has been ignored by the anti MAC movement, and NGO's have been accused of wrong doing. They got to the extreme of accusing NGOs of being responsible for many of the prevailing problems.
NGOs have been there helping no making things worse.

Jaime
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
blue hula3":3bw0p2xu said:
Jaime Baquero":3bw0p2xu said:
Background information of people involved is in some cases disturbing.

You mean unsupported allegations about people's supposed motives from unnamed sources in an environment where huge egos abound ??

Sorry I need more than that. Guess as a scientist I'm partial to facts.

When was the last time you were out in the field, Jaime ?

How about putting a lid on the allegations until you have some evidence you can share ?

Jessica


It is a very hostile environment, I guess is why things are that bad.

If you meant the Philippines it was a while. But do not forget that there different ways to communicate with people. Last contact with Filipinos was two weeks ago.

Jessica, the purpose of my participation in this forum has been very concrete. I just wanted to blow the whistle. To give you an example readers in this forum didn't know about Mr. Cruz background in the ornamental fish business. He was co-owner of an exporting facility in Manila. This is different to the idea M. Kirda et all, were trying to sell to the readers by making them believe that Mr. Cruz was just a dedicated and passionated field trainer working on his own. Mr. Cruz is someone who knows the fish business he also knows that there is money to be made in the trade. Just say it, crystal and clear. As for the rest only Mr. Cruz has the answers.

My experience working in the Philippines was very valuable. I had the opportunity of meeting very competent and honest people who worked very hard helping fish collectors and helping to find solutions to the problems the trade had created. I met many fish collectors and I helped them the best I could. For months, participants in this forum have been attacking NGOs and their personal of wrong doing. That is something I can not ignore, specially when that comes from people whose background is not clear.

jaime
 

blue hula3

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":2ggv7nlx said:
Jessica, the purpose of my participation in this forum has been very concrete. I just wanted to blow the whistle.

Whistle blowers are valuable. Indeed, a number of them were featured as Time's "people of the year" I believe (or one of those mags).

The key difference between them and you is their whistle-blowing was supported by evidence which was presented, evaluated and found to be solid. I'll ask again:

blue hula3":2ggv7nlx said:
How about putting a lid on the allegations until you have some evidence you can share ?

and I'll add, quite making inferences about the man's motivations. From what I can see, his current actions speak volumes.

Jessica
 

MaryHM

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I just wanted to blow the whistle. To give you an example readers in this forum didn't know about Mr. Cruz background in the ornamental fish business. He was co-owner of an exporting facility in Manila. This is different to the idea M. Kirda et all, were trying to sell to the readers by making them believe that Mr. Cruz was just a dedicated and passionated field trainer working on his own. Mr. Cruz is someone who knows the fish business he also knows that there is money to be made in the trade

Jaime,

You haven't blown any whistle. You've made a lot of unfounded allegations. I have asked, and now Jessica has asked- SHOW US SOME FACTS AND WE'LL TAKE YOU MORE SERIOUSLY. You should talk to Wayne. He is an attorney and should be able to explain the difference between heresay and evidence to you.

You act as though M. Kirda et. al. were trying to hide the fact that Ferdinand used to be in the industry. When in actuality, your statement clarifies why is was never brought up as important. "He was co-owner of an exporting facility in Manila." He is no longer. I was a biological technician for the National Marine Fisheries Service. Does that mean I'm some covert government operator trying to dig up dirt on the trade? No. It's irrelevant. I was. I also was a former retail store manager and bought cyanide caught fish on behalf of the owner of the store. But I don't run around injecting that fact in to every post because it is irrelevant. Does that mean I'm hiding my cyanide laden past?? Of course not. NOW I am an importer/wholesaler who is striving for reform. That is what is relevant now.

I realize that the NGO's think that they have all of the answers to industry's problems, even though none of the big wigs have industry experience. How can a Paul Holthus or David Vossler or Peter Scott fix this industry if they don't understand it?? I would much rather see someone who does understand the industry working to correct its problems. Doesn't that only make sense? It shouldn't be considered a negative that Ferdinand "knows the fish business". It's a positive. It means that he can look at the issues in a realistic way and figure out how to create solutions that work in the real world of a BUSINESS. Because you see, that's what the ornamental industry is. A Business. An industry that those participating in hope to earn a profit for. The ornamental industry isn't an NGO, trying to save the reefs with other people's money. We are a for profit business. Steve, Ferdinand, myself, and many others are pushing for ways for this industry to profit in a sustainable, ethical manner. How that is an unworthy goal in your eyes is beyond my understanding.
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
MaryHM":1h8m1nt6 said:
I just wanted to blow the whistle. To give you an example readers in this forum didn't know about Mr. Cruz background in the ornamental fish business. He was co-owner of an exporting facility in Manila. This is different to the idea M. Kirda et all, were trying to sell to the readers by making them believe that Mr. Cruz was just a dedicated and passionated field trainer working on his own. Mr. Cruz is someone who knows the fish business he also knows that there is money to be made in the trade

Jaime,

You haven't blown any whistle. You've made a lot of unfounded allegations. I have asked, and now Jessica has asked- SHOW US SOME FACTS AND WE'LL TAKE YOU MORE SERIOUSLY. You should talk to Wayne. He is an attorney and should be able to explain the difference between heresay and evidence to you.

You act as though M. Kirda et. al. were trying to hide the fact that Ferdinand used to be in the industry. When in actuality, your statement clarifies why is was never brought up as important. "He was co-owner of an exporting facility in Manila." He is no longer. I was a biological technician for the National Marine Fisheries Service. Does that mean I'm some covert government operator trying to dig up dirt on the trade? No. It's irrelevant. I was. I also was a former retail store manager and bought cyanide caught fish on behalf of the owner of the store. But I don't run around injecting that fact in to every post because it is irrelevant. Does that mean I'm hiding my cyanide laden past?? Of course not. NOW I am an importer/wholesaler who is striving for reform. That is what is relevant now.

I realize that the NGO's think that they have all of the answers to industry's problems, even though none of the big wigs have industry experience. How can a Paul Holthus or David Vossler or Peter Scott fix this industry if they don't understand it?? I would much rather see someone who does understand the industry working to correct its problems. Doesn't that only make sense? It shouldn't be considered a negative that Ferdinand "knows the fish business". It's a positive. It means that he can look at the issues in a realistic way and figure out how to create solutions that work in the real world of a BUSINESS. Because you see, that's what the ornamental industry is. A Business. An industry that those participating in hope to earn a profit for. The ornamental industry isn't an NGO, trying to save the reefs with other people's money. We are a for profit business. Steve, Ferdinand, myself, and many others are pushing for ways for this industry to profit in a sustainable, ethical manner. How that is an unworthy goal in your eyes is beyond my understanding.

OK, I think I had enough. You guys, you can think and say whatever you want. I have done what I considered was the necessary thing to do. I do not want to waste any more of my time in this endless vicious circle of denial and questioning. Participants in this forum have been attacking NGOs of wrong doing , this has occured during months, no ONE of them has shown any concrete evidence, of wrong doing, against any of the NGOs in question. I know there is a description for that, I guess is double standar.

That Mr. Cruz knows the industry is a positive aspect. The way you presented him in this forum was not right.

I do not know what is going to be the impact of this exercise. The few readers participating in this forum(6-8) can do whatever they wish with the information. The only evidence available are the e-mails sent by Mr. Cruz. It is up to him to post them or no. I can not do that because I didn't write those e-mails.

Other evidence I have, are long phone calls in which information was disclosed to me regarding Mr. Cruz activities in the Philippines. That was not a good thing to do from the caller, who knew from the begining I was a MAC supporter. One good thing I am getting from all this IS THAT I AM NOT GETTING THOSE ANNOYING CALLS ANYMORE. Thanks God!
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":1pfw7ggx said:
This is different to the idea M. Kirda et all, were trying to sell to the readers by making them believe that Mr. Cruz was just a dedicated and passionated field trainer working on his own. Mr. Cruz is someone who knows the fish business he also knows that there is money to be made in the trade. Just say it, crystal and clear.

Jaime,

I was never trying to 'sell' anything- I have stated many things, and I know the readers are smart enough to understand that my assessments of Ferdie are my opinion(s). You want to highlight his background as important, fine, whatever. You deem it important. In my opinion, it was not irrelevant, but not exactly relevant either. He *is* a dedicated and passionate field trainer, who, in the past, has worked in various aspects of the marine ornamental industry. He has been a businessman, and he sold his business when he started working for an NGO. There it is, all crystal and clear, so all the readers can see the past in all its glory...

My experience working in the Philippines was very valuable. I had the opportunity of meeting very competent and honest people who worked very hard helping fish collectors and helping to find solutions to the problems the trade had created. I met many fish collectors and I helped them the best I could. For months, participants in this forum have been attacking NGOs and their personal of wrong doing. That is something I can not ignore, specially when that comes from people whose background is not clear.

Jaime, I have never maligned you personally. I'm sure that you did the very best you could. The ideas that were tried did not pan out for various reasons, some of which are very predicatable and obvious in hindsight. It is good to know the history, to know what was tried, and what failed and why. We need to understand these things so they are not tried again- We need to move forward and not waste our time reinventing the square wheel.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":3nbv6vnu said:
That Mr. Cruz knows the industry is a positive aspect. The way you presented him in this forum was not right.

Neither was the way you attacked him with hints and innuendo, Jaime.

I do not know what is going to be the impact of this exercise. The few readers participating in this forum(6-8) can do whatever they wish with the information. The only evidence available are the e-mails sent by Mr. Cruz. It is up to him to post them or no. I can not do that because I didn't write those e-mails.

Huh. :roll:

Funny that you will quote from them piecemeal though. Interesting ethics you have.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

Sponsor Reefs

We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.

Click here to sponsor $10:


Top