A
Anonymous
Guest
But that list should begin and end with business decisions. (ie it's not good business to sell xxx species). This is an industry, not a humane society.
SAVE THE FRUIT AND NOT THE TREE!
- Thread starter clarionreef
- Start date
But that list should begin and end with business decisions. (ie it's not good business to sell xxx species). This is an industry, not a humane society.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Guys,
By "myopic utopians" I had very different folks in mind! And you guys weren't it at all!
These things about the USL are things we have to fix. My fear is when non industry outsider types, who don't get wet find things of ours to fix, they generally get it all wrong.
Myopic, semi environmentally oriented NGO figures are the ones I meant should not be telling us what we need. We have our own people w/ tons more expertise and credibility telling us things as this. The fact that many of us already act on this unfortuneately seems to have little bearing on the number majority of the trade.
Yes cleaner wrasses and coral feeders should be left alone...many of us already do that and have been for many years.
The lack of power to stop all bad things is frustrating I admit. I only meant we should prioritize reform questions better and not fight so much among the converted.
Sorry I was not clearer as to who the utopians were.
Steve
By "myopic utopians" I had very different folks in mind! And you guys weren't it at all!
These things about the USL are things we have to fix. My fear is when non industry outsider types, who don't get wet find things of ours to fix, they generally get it all wrong.
Myopic, semi environmentally oriented NGO figures are the ones I meant should not be telling us what we need. We have our own people w/ tons more expertise and credibility telling us things as this. The fact that many of us already act on this unfortuneately seems to have little bearing on the number majority of the trade.
Yes cleaner wrasses and coral feeders should be left alone...many of us already do that and have been for many years.
The lack of power to stop all bad things is frustrating I admit. I only meant we should prioritize reform questions better and not fight so much among the converted.
Sorry I was not clearer as to who the utopians were.
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Just post John Tullocks list in your store and abide by it as close as you can. It'll be hard to get much more constructive then that.
Steve
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Guys,
And futhermore the utopian thread was a response to the 'collect to order notions'...not as Mike suggests them but as was suggested by the "larger ill informed reform program." There was a wholesalers conference in March of last year and it was summarily dismissed as a result of how strongly it was rebuked ..as silly, unworkable and impossible. The hard bitten and jaded importers do not tolerate such flippant and unexamined notions as a 'collect to order' list AS IF such orders could be sent back down thru the chain. It felt strange, but on this one I had to agree w/ them.
Are there any desireable species that some hobbyist wanted that dealers were not already aware of? And if such rare and coveted species were around do you not think that dealers already scramble for them? Hobbyists can request from retailers whatever, and they do. Retailers can request from wholesalers... and they do. Bringing in common fish that no one wants is a reality with remedy already. Often, it takes the form of sales and lower prices...which over the decades results in the cheaper fish...an issue the trade really gets excited about.
Why just this week I was offered reduced prices on lots of common netcaught fish because their oversupply threatened to result in their non sale and starvation. They were the extra supply the dealer had to buy to get the good stuff. This is exactly how the system keeps divers alive and functioning. A narrower, collect to order system would put the guys out of business in a month.
That non trade people entertain simplistic notions of limiting the collecting of checkered butterflies in Palauwig or firefish in Mindoro to fit some utopian notion of everything fitting perfectly into a chain of predictable order and supply ...well not only is that myopia in the extreme, it would be bad news for collectors in those areas. Of course, it has zero chance of becoming more than a notion of outsiders trying to figure out how to get more of a foothold into the trade.
Don't fall for and accept agendas from non involved, non fish oriented groups that say..." Tell me of your problems and issues so that we can inflate them, prescribe remedy, secure funding and make ourselves more important as your representatives.
'Collect to order' already happens in a way that has always made business sense and with its own checks and balances. There are many fishes that exist out there that you never see. Why...because they have already been selected out of the system in the trades own search for equilibrium.
Dry, myopic, uninvolved , non fish keeping utopians need to mix and immerse [ and not just conduct a few non representative and select interviews] before elevating false and lesser agendas above the more bonafide ones.
Several among you have recently had their baptisms... Hopefully more will follow.
Sincerely, Steve
And futhermore the utopian thread was a response to the 'collect to order notions'...not as Mike suggests them but as was suggested by the "larger ill informed reform program." There was a wholesalers conference in March of last year and it was summarily dismissed as a result of how strongly it was rebuked ..as silly, unworkable and impossible. The hard bitten and jaded importers do not tolerate such flippant and unexamined notions as a 'collect to order' list AS IF such orders could be sent back down thru the chain. It felt strange, but on this one I had to agree w/ them.
Are there any desireable species that some hobbyist wanted that dealers were not already aware of? And if such rare and coveted species were around do you not think that dealers already scramble for them? Hobbyists can request from retailers whatever, and they do. Retailers can request from wholesalers... and they do. Bringing in common fish that no one wants is a reality with remedy already. Often, it takes the form of sales and lower prices...which over the decades results in the cheaper fish...an issue the trade really gets excited about.
Why just this week I was offered reduced prices on lots of common netcaught fish because their oversupply threatened to result in their non sale and starvation. They were the extra supply the dealer had to buy to get the good stuff. This is exactly how the system keeps divers alive and functioning. A narrower, collect to order system would put the guys out of business in a month.
That non trade people entertain simplistic notions of limiting the collecting of checkered butterflies in Palauwig or firefish in Mindoro to fit some utopian notion of everything fitting perfectly into a chain of predictable order and supply ...well not only is that myopia in the extreme, it would be bad news for collectors in those areas. Of course, it has zero chance of becoming more than a notion of outsiders trying to figure out how to get more of a foothold into the trade.
Don't fall for and accept agendas from non involved, non fish oriented groups that say..." Tell me of your problems and issues so that we can inflate them, prescribe remedy, secure funding and make ourselves more important as your representatives.
'Collect to order' already happens in a way that has always made business sense and with its own checks and balances. There are many fishes that exist out there that you never see. Why...because they have already been selected out of the system in the trades own search for equilibrium.
Dry, myopic, uninvolved , non fish keeping utopians need to mix and immerse [ and not just conduct a few non representative and select interviews] before elevating false and lesser agendas above the more bonafide ones.
Several among you have recently had their baptisms... Hopefully more will follow.
Sincerely, Steve
Steve,
The more I see the religious imagery creeping into these discussions the more I realize that we are experiencing the birth of a new religion. This combination of moral values and scientific logic are blending together to create a new deity for atheists. Hail "The Church of Scientism". Part saving the reefs and part saving your sole. There is no doubt this new religion has its fair share of prophets and disciples. And hypocrites! The Church of Scientism comes complete with tithing. The fire and brimstone sermons of the past few years, are being replaced by feel good messages and pictures of children. The principles include Peter,Paul, and Mary, Judas, and more than one doubting Thomas.
Thank God we have John the Baptist to sort it all out for us. :wink:
Don't get excited and send hate mail, I'm just trying to have a little fun with all this.
PS
Edited to include Mary how could I forget her already.
The more I see the religious imagery creeping into these discussions the more I realize that we are experiencing the birth of a new religion. This combination of moral values and scientific logic are blending together to create a new deity for atheists. Hail "The Church of Scientism". Part saving the reefs and part saving your sole. There is no doubt this new religion has its fair share of prophets and disciples. And hypocrites! The Church of Scientism comes complete with tithing. The fire and brimstone sermons of the past few years, are being replaced by feel good messages and pictures of children. The principles include Peter,Paul, and Mary, Judas, and more than one doubting Thomas.
Thank God we have John the Baptist to sort it all out for us. :wink:
Don't get excited and send hate mail, I'm just trying to have a little fun with all this.
PS
Edited to include Mary how could I forget her already.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Halleleuyah brother Mitch!
And we welcome even sinners such as yourself! Now pass the collection plate and lets get started.
PS.
And Mike? The archangel Michael? Brother Steve
And we welcome even sinners such as yourself! Now pass the collection plate and lets get started.
PS.
And Mike? The archangel Michael? Brother Steve
I can almost see it now Steve is on the beach diligently training a group of young Filipinos the art of using the barrier net, while the the trio of Peter, Paul, and Mary softly sing: He will make you fishers of men; fishers of men fishers of men He will make you fishers of men, if you only follow him.Then as the sun begins to slowly set we can see the faint outline of a small boat coming to shore. Our trio's face light up as they recognize Mike returning from a day of searching for corals damaged by cyanide.
Simultaneouly and in angelic harmony we hear: Michael row the bow the ashore (again) Michael row the boat ashore Hallelujah
And there ain't a dry eye in the house.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Hello Noah, I mean Mitch,
Hows the revolving ark coming along? You prophesize wise and well oh sage! As our "conversions" mount we will continue on and bring the word to Islamic Indonesia. This tropical fish training mission will perhaps be the bridge between two great religions and show the path to world peace. Did you think our agenda was really limited to just getting certificates to a few infidel retailers?
Peace be w/ you..even you,
Steve
PS.And with this one comes a knock at the door tonite by agents of the Home Defense Dept.
Hows the revolving ark coming along? You prophesize wise and well oh sage! As our "conversions" mount we will continue on and bring the word to Islamic Indonesia. This tropical fish training mission will perhaps be the bridge between two great religions and show the path to world peace. Did you think our agenda was really limited to just getting certificates to a few infidel retailers?
Peace be w/ you..even you,
Steve
PS.And with this one comes a knock at the door tonite by agents of the Home Defense Dept.
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
