Cyanide testing begins?

[MaryHM]

My Indo coral supplier out of Jakarta also sells fish. In fact the list is just as long as the Philippine suppliers list.

 

[clarionreef]

Now class,
Look at the map. Indonesia is Bali and Bali is Indonesia. The country is called Indonesia and one of its island states is Bali. Bali is an export center for fish thruout half the country and Jakarta is the export center for the Western half.
The cyanide trade exists thruout the country from Banda Aeche in the far West where the gold maroons clowns come from all the way to Irian Jaya in the New Guinea side where the true perculas come from.
Poor Bali is so done over and thrashed that it is mainly a common and ordinary fish zone. The top fish that it ships out are not collected in Bali. Long range boats carrying cyanide fisherman roam far and wide and bring home the blueface and majestic angels to sell in Bali or Jakarta. Bali is closer to the majestic grounds [ Timor, Flores] and get more of them.
Unlike the Philippines, the exporters in Indonesia are generally more open and matter of fact about the prevalance of cyanide fish in their inventories. In fact, they often speak of how it is not so damaging and just puts he fish to sleep, reducing stress.
It is common and used thruout the country...sorry.
There are a number of groups there trying to service the situation and make hay out of it. There is even one group "training with misquito netting". A farce of course and illustrative of other wannabie collecting reform groups that don't know how to collect fish themselves, yet pretend to do it to get grants and fund themselves. These are not real environmentalists...
. They are something so much worse because they filibuster the issue and sop up the available good will on it. They exhaust it , drain it and move on to other business.
The net effect is complicity with the cyanide system and they must share the blame along with the industry that fuels it.
Bali clean? Coral collecting areas cyanide free. I wish!
Sincerely, Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

Steve, I think if you read the posts,I asked what other exporters Except Bali.........in fact we had a discussion not to long ago about all the Other Islands that send there fish to Bali to be sold as Bali caught? {Bangii} .............And I never said cyanide does not kill corals.only that our trade use of cyanide is so tiny in the face of the food fishermen. {Kind of like the sprinklers coming on while its raining} And Mary ......yes I actually do Know one Jakarta shipper {the one with the rose anemones} He has a good bit of fish on his lists.....{.Like those purple leafy scorpion fish?}{Rinos} But hardly what Bali and PI tout.
_________________
Honda NT650

 

[MaryHM]

Doesn't Rudy Batara's company ship fish out of Jakarta?

Kalk- I don't think you and I are talking about the same supplier. I look at the number the last fish shows up as on my Excel spreadsheet. The supplier I'm talking about runs about the same as PI.

 

[Kalkbreath]

OK.......I stand corrected.........Mary , how are the fish from that supplier? and have you experienced questionable fish from that Area with any other exporters? There is cyanide fishing in the region, but even more so then PI ....it seems to be the food fishermen that are responsible.. Peter have you heard of testing results from that area?
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recession history united states

 

[MaryHM]

I don't have any idea what the fish are like. I don't order them. When I asked my supplier a few years back about the collection methods he said that he mainly buys fish from collectors that he doesn't employ, so he can't say for sure how they were caught. The few divers he does have he makes them use nets. At least my supplier is honest!! You don't get that a lot.

 

[PeterIMA]

Kalk, I am not aware of any cyanide testing in Indonesia. Samples sent to the IMA laboratories in the Philippines confirmed its use. The IMA worked with several NGOs in Indonesia and confirmed its widespread use by interviewing the collectors. WWF did a comprehensive study (authored by Narikome Bentley) that also confirmed that cyanide fishing is out of control (widespread) in both the food fish and aquarium fish trades in Indonesia. When the CDT goes into effect in the United States those buying and selling cyanide-caught fish will be identified and prosecuted. The US government will be able to exert control on the aquarium trade over countries that export cyanide-caught marine aquarium fish to the USA.

Peter Rubec

 

[John_Brandt]

Kalk, I am not aware of any cyanide testing in Indonesia. Samples sent to the IMA laboratories in the Philippines confirmed its use. The IMA worked with several NGOs in Indonesia and confirmed its widespread use by interviewing the collectors. WWF did a comprehensive study (authored by Narikome Bentley) that also confirmed that cyanide fishing is out of control (widespread) in both the food fish and aquarium fish trades in Indonesia. When the CDT goes into effect in the United States those buying and selling cyanide-caught fish will be identified and prosecuted. The US government will be able to exert control on the aquarium trade over countries that export cyanide-caught marine aquarium fish to the USA.

Peter Rubec

Hello Peter,

Thank you for your input. I noticed you said, "When the CDT goes into effect in the United States...". I'm curious about your use of the word "when" rather than "if".

If you know that the testing of cyanide at US Customs is a future fact, would you be willing to share more details of this? IOW, do you know about something that we (or I) do not know about this?

Thank you,
John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[clarionreef]

Dear Santa,
Please have the US Fish and Wildlife Service implement solid, accurate testing for cyanide at all major airports of importation.
Then all those exporters and importers who just claim to be netcaught will not only support ...but insist upon trainings as well!
[Afterall, there is a light year of difference between claiming and being.]
We'd have all the support we'd need.
If only it would happen!
Steve

 

[PeterIMA]

To John Brandt,

Perhaps I should have said "if". The IMA is working with a university scientist to evaluate an existing cyanide test that could be applied in the United States and in other countries. It is different from the one that IMA applied for BFAR in the Philippines. The USFWS and the USCRTF are aware of the research. Once the test procedure is available it will be up to the US government to see that it is implemented. "If" and when are still not determined. I agree with Mary that a US-based cyanide test is the best means to stop the problem. I have taken steps to make it happen. Two grants were obtained and the research is under way.

Peter Rubec

 

[naesco]

Peter that is excellent news.

As I catch up with the postings on this forum, I can't help but think that maybe instead of spending the millions of dollars trying to solve a problem, we simply pass a law prohibiting the import of fish from Indonesia and the Phillippines and use these resources elsewhere.
Any takers?

 

[dizzy]

Peter that is excellent news.

As I catch up with the postings on this forum, I can't help but think that maybe instead of spending the millions of dollars trying to solve a problem, we simply pass a law prohibiting the import of fish from Indonesia and the Phillippines and use these resources elsewhere.
Any takers?

naesco,
After all this time on the boards you act like you understand nothing of the plight of the fisherfolk. They have families they need to feed and feed them they will. Please try to show a little compassion for people that are less fortunate than yourself, and we may be helping to save the reefs in the bargain.

 

[naesco]

Mitch if no one will buy cyanide fish than the cyanide problem goes away.
This problem destroys the reefs and gives our hobby a black eye.
I have visited the Phillippines and the economic problems are faced by almost all Phillipinos whether fishfolk or not.
IMO you cannot justify the continued damage this poison does for economic reasons anymore than you can justify the use of other poisons like DDT.

To suggest I lack compassion is humourous to me.
Think about it Mitch, you have read my posts on the USL, tangs and cyanide.
If I care that much about the above can you image how compassionate I am about my fellow human beings.

 

[clarionreef]

So Naesco,
If you give up and delete Indo and the Philippines from the trade, [ way over half of the industry] there is no more trade.
Interesting idea.
Steve

 

[John_Brandt]

To John Brandt,

Perhaps I should have said "if". The IMA is working with a university scientist to evaluate an existing cyanide test that could be applied in the United States and in other countries. It is different from the one that IMA applied for BFAR in the Philippines. The USFWS and the USCRTF are aware of the research. Once the test procedure is available it will be up to the US government to see that it is implemented. "If" and when are still not determined. I agree with Mary that a US-based cyanide test is the best means to stop the problem. I have taken steps to make it happen. Two grants were obtained and the research is under way.

Peter Rubec

Peter,

Thank you for the clarification. Certainly a US government-facilitated cyanide test at the border would be one half of a proper remedy. The other necessary component is comprehensive and effective net training and widespread efforts towards sustainability.

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[John_Brandt]

Mitch if no one will buy cyanide fish than the cyanide problem goes away.
This problem destroys the reefs and gives our hobby a black eye.
I have visited the Phillippines and the economic problems are faced by almost all Phillipinos whether fishfolk or not.
IMO you cannot justify the continued damage this poison does for economic reasons anymore than you can justify the use of other poisons like DDT.

To suggest I lack compassion is humourous to me.
Think about it Mitch, you have read my posts on the USL, tangs and cyanide.
If I care that much about the above can you image how compassionate I am about my fellow human beings.

Naesco and all,

There should be no disagreements on this issue. Naesco, your message seems to imply that "millions" could be saved if only the cyanide test were implemented pronto. But your position superficially appears to not account for the necessary conversion from cyanide to nets. This step-by-step conversion will allow Filipino fathers to spend the night sleeping with their families, rather than in jail.

You do understand that don't you?

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[Kalkbreath]

Thats actually very well said ., John..............! And a good piont........
_________________
BMW Z3

 

[naesco]

John you are the representative of the hobby and there is no doubt in my mind that you would love to stop cyanide fishing period. You understand that it is not only the fish that is poisoned it is the reef. You understand that although the fish can be replaced with others it takes years to replace the damage done to the reef squirt by squirt.
That is the anxiety my friend.
I and others on this and other boards are trying to educate reefers about all what cyanide means and does. We try to advise them what fish are likely cyanide caught. We ask them to ask the LFS and online stores where the fish are caught so that they too are enlightened. We steer them to www.seacrop.com , MAC certified suppliers and others who deal in drug free fish.
Here is what we are faced with from the scum suckers who deal in cyanide.
"YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER THE FISH ARE IN FACT CYANIDE FREE AS CLAIMED BY MAC AS THEY ARE NOT BEING TESTED"

Move on the test, and quit trying to justify the lack of action. It is seriously hurting our hobby.
As the demand grows for net caugt fish so will the eagerness of the fisher to use nets.

 

[John_Brandt]

Move on the test, and quit trying to justify the lack of action. It is seriously hurting our hobby.

A few weeks ago you accused me of having no balls because I wouldn't tell a fisher to stop collecting cleaner wrasses. Now you accuse me of justifying a lack of cyanide testing.

I'm getting awfully sick of this. Do you understand me, Wayne? Awfully sick of this!

John Brandt

MASNA
MAC
CMAS-Chicago

 

[naesco]

John you are the representative of the hobby and there is no doubt in my mind that you would love to stop cyanide fishing period.

The above is the first sentence of my post.

Your post implied that cyanide testing should be delayed pending the step by step implementation of training.

My post stated that your above comment did not justify implementing without delay random cyanide testing.

Nowhere did I accuse you of justifying a lack of cyanide testing.

Please re-read my post again. You missed the message.