Food Fish Trade Issues

[clarionreef]

Yes Frazer,
It would be nice to live in a world where NGOs are not needed. In fact a number of them are not needed now. Especially the one in Hong Kong representing the Live Food Fish Cyanide trade in smuggling reef killing groupers and snappers to Hong Kong out the back door of Palawan. Dumping tons of cyanide on Filipino reefs in exchange for many more tons of live predators to smuggle to Hong Kong is a trade in need of a fix. And who did they accept as their saviour when some good Filipinos got wind of it and started siezing their boats?
The good ol IMA that you worked for.
And when you felt that NGO was no longer needed, who did you find in their place? You joined with the former association representative and mouthpiece of the live cyanide fish industry and formed your own whitewash organization. Yes they need NGOs there. Their criminal sabatoge of Filipino reef productivity has hurt Filipinos very badly and they need better public relations because of it..
Don't flame NGOs? Are you kidding? NGOs masquerading as as Chamber of Commerce for destructive and illegal fishing operations on an industrial level...you want them to operate with immpunity? You want to wipe their nose and dab their tears when they get bad press?
Free speech and Democracy is what you sign on for boy when you contribute in a public forum.
Tell your new friends in the cartel over there to stay out of Palawan. They are going to suffer intensified operations against them this year. The next time a boat is siezed with drums of cyanide on board its going to be elevated to international incident status...
Then you'll really be busy.
Steve Robinson...pa rin!

 

[clarionreef]

John,
I'm sorry bout the thread change without a turn signal. Could you remove the live cyanide food fish posting and assign it another thread?
Let keep the MAC/ NEMO /FRIDGE MAGNET praise-page pure and not mix it with the "making the killing of coral reefs OK with a new Hong Kong NGO" page.
And who wants to win the prize for being the first to post a "Sure they're killing coarl reefs wholesale in Palawan with drums of cyanide, but...can't we all just get along?"
Steve

 

[Dogfish Head]

Steve:

You are very eloquent, and spend a lot of time on this site trashing a lot of people for wasting money and time not doing the right thing to solve the cyanide problem. But you may remember that I asked you, over year ago, for your recommendations on what, specifically, would constitute a realistic, effective net training program for Indonesia and the Philippines. You said that you didn't have time to spell it out. But you spend an awful lot of time writing posts to this forum.

Believe it or not, there ARE people -- good honest people, some in government, some in NGOs -- who would like to solve this problem and would like specific recommendations on how to do so. Believe it or not, there are people concerned with saving Southeast Asia's coral reefs who are not aquarium fish dealers! The World Bank, for example, is about to loan the government of Indoensia some $80 million over the next 5 years on coral reef conservation programs at key sites in eastern Indonesia. They, and the government, are looking for realistic, feasible ways to stop cyanide fishing. Your recommendations on how to go about it, specifically, would be helpful. How about it?

You endlessly trash MAC, IMA and others, but isn't it the case that they are the only ones actually doing anything in the field over the past decade? Everyone wants cyanide testing, but the only actual testing system was run by IMA in the Philippines until 2001, when BFAR took over the labs and ran the whole system into the ground.

Your flaming attacks on Frazer and Patrick Chan are unwarranted. Patrick Chan has been a leader in getting the live reef food fish industry in Hong Kong to even TALK about cyanide fishing reform, and Frazer has played a significant role in making that happen. Has the problem been solved? Obviously not. But if you think that it can be solved without cooperation from the industry, you are dreaming. People want to sell the fish, and people want to buy them.

If the solution is to ban the trade in live food fish in Indonesia and the Philippines, what is the principled distinction betweeen that and your trade?

I don't want to be antagonistic, I just wish that you'd provide some specifics on what you think needs to be done to solve the problem, and what it would cost. There are lots of people who would be willing to listen.

Chip (Barber)

 

[clarionreef]

Dear Chip of the IMA,
Ooops, you resigned already, right? Why?
Was it the chronic control issues with the nepotistic leadership or the lawsuits against it from the WWF...over, funding irregularities?
You were wise to bail ship. And now you ask me why I didn't work with you on that very same ship?? Pardon me for getting it right the first time.
Now, you seek tolerance for and a search for understanding in the smuggling of illegally caught fish? Wouldn't that make me an accomplice of sorts like Frazer and the good mister Chan?
When they get legal, we can talk. Right now they belong in jail for economic sabatoge and treason against the reefs.
Yeah, yeah, its where the money is I know.

Steve

PS.. We're only talking about the illegal stuff here. I have no problem with the legal trade. Its no problem at all...and not in need of white washing.
STICK TO THE LEGAL TRADE and the issue goes away.

 

[Dogfish Head]

Steve:

Well I hoped to get an answer of a substantive nature, but I didn't. Just to set the record straight:

From 1989 to September 2001 I worked for the World Resources Institute (WRI), based in Manila from 1994-2001. Between 1997 and 2001, WRI carried out a collaborative project with IMA, for which I was the WRI project director, to publicize the cyanide fishing issue, draw attention to efforts in the Philippines to combat it, and to help IMA develop small programs in Indonesia, Vietnam, Hong Kong, and some Pacific Island countries. From October 2001 (when I moved back to the US, to Washington DC) through September 2002, I served as IMA vice president and Washington DC representative, and also served on the MAC Board.

Due to a funding crunch (which most NGOs have experienced, due to the decline in the stock market and 9/11), it became clear that IMA could not afford a Washington DC office, as its limited funds are better put to use for field projects, so I left IMA (and, April, the MAC Board) and am currently working as an independent consultant on protected areas policy issues (for the The Nature Conservancy and IUCN), and a study on natural resources and governance in the Philippines (for the World Bank). I am also about to take on a World Bank consultancy to design the reef species trade component of their upcoming Coremap Phase II coral reef conservation project in Indonesia, which is one reason I was interested in your substantive views on what would constitute a good net training program, specifically, and what you think it would cost.

I know you disdain all of those organizations, and most others, but there is nothing I can do about that.

I don't know what your personal beef is with IMA, but I think you should take it out of this forum. IMA is trying to do its best, on a very limited budget, to deal with the cyanide fishing issue. But IMA is a small organization and is not going to solve the problem on its own. But from what I have seen on this forum, quite a few people who post are doing almost nothing but talk, talk that is laced with self-righteous posturing, backstabbing, and shadowy innuendo.

IMA is not being sued by WWF over funding irregulaties or anythying else (and WWF has not funded IMA anyway), I don't know where you got that from (and I would be careful making such assertions on the internet - where I went to law school a willful misrepresentation of fact, in writing, that defames a person or organization was known as "libel").

I find your self-righteous tone and innuendos to be really destructive to this forum. I spent nearly 8 years in the Philippines, in close contact with many organizations working on coastal and marine issues and cyanide fishing, and I never saw hide nor hair of you there doing anything about it.

What evidence to you have that Frazer and Patrick Chan are trafficking in illegally caught fish? I believe libel is an offense in Hong Kong as well! The fish that are sold in Hong Kong are legally imported. How they are caught is another matter, one that many people would like to solve. But by your same logic, the marine ornamentals trade should be banned and everyone who sells aquarium fish should be in jail for "treason and economic sabotage".

I would really like to get beyond all this name-calling and innuendo and use this forum to talk about the specific steps that you and others reformers in the aquarium industry would recommend, so that we can work to promote sufficient financing and policy support to make it happen.

How about it?

Chip Barber

 

[clarionreef]

Good work Chip,
Glad to see it all paying off for you and that you are getting work out there.
Enjoy it while you can.
American career groups with dubious ability to implement their theories and dogmas are falling out of favor increasingly in areas where the local people can and should be handling their own affairs.
I will endeavor to support local talent and local leaders increasingly... especially those who resist the invasion of your friends cyanide fishing boats from Hong Kong.
We Westerners need to make ourselves obsolete. Failure to do this proves the case that we can't train people well. And if we aren't training them very well, what are we doing over there?
Steve