Understanding The Mortality Study.

[Frank Lallo]

Just a note here on the study.

I have spoken to 5 of you so far on the phone and explained the study to you and what it means. There will be two more this morning. After explaining it to you via the phone ALL I have spoken to can now see where the numbers come from and beleave they maybe correct. If anyone wants to talk about it and get an understanding weather you agree or not drop me a private message with a phone # to contact you and I will be glad to call you.

Frankie

 

[Frank Lallo]

1)This study was done going back several years back. It was my goal to have someone pick up these numbers and do something with them. As we all know nobody did. It is also imperiative that another one be done. But please move a little faster then in the past (g). There is no dout that with improvements in shipping, water quality standards, and an over all understanding on what these fish need in terms of survival over the last decade these numbers I would hope have been improved on dramatically.

2) The study itself is by no means scientific nor was it meant to be. It was meant to be a starting point a base for the truely concearned hobbiest & busniness alike to work with.

3) The figures in the study were put together as follows.
A) They are and average of percentages to derive a base number which where done for the following reasons.

1) Some stores.
A) purchased more fish then others ie...store A may have bought 50 while store b purchased 3 of the same species. If B lost 2 of the 3 his percentage would be very high as opposed to store A where if it lost 2 well if i have to explain this one you shouldn't be reading this in the first place.
So i took the percentage of each store then used and average to balance out the scales for the region. Also keep in mind that not all stores are equal some were in fact down right awful while others were fantastic so again to keep a balance percentages were used then averaged for a region. After all was said and done the fish where grouped by the 100's (species) ......Example after doing the stores individually they were then group so if 556 where shipped and 11.2 where DOA it would give us 2% for that species only for all the store in that region. What this study will show you is that for every 1 quality store there are about 10 that should not be in business, two the figures are not as bad as you think considering some of the jackass's the are selling fish and finally it will show you what FISH THE AVARAGE HOBBIEST SHOULD NOT BE KEEPING AND THE DEALERS NOT SELLING THEM TO PEOPLE.....Figues for the study will begin to be posted later today or early tomorrow. Take them for what they mean and not what you percieve them to mean ok folks. Also there were some 100 species covered and thousands of fish involved.

Thanks
Frankie

 

[Anonymous]

Frank,

Is there a list of how each species performed? I'd be very interested in seeing if that matches my experience here at the shop, and if there are fish I've never brought in that I would now avoid due to others' experiences...

Peace,

Chip

 

[Anonymous]

Mathematically speaking, an average of averages is a less than desirable way to calculate values.

STORE #FISH #DOA %DOA
A 2 1 50
B 2 1 50
C 2 1 50
D 100 10 10

Totals 106 13 12%

an average of the averages leads to (50+50+50+10)/4 = 40%DOA 8O This is truly misleading, to say 40% of ALL fish are DOA. Not even close to the truth. Only 12% of ALL fish are DOA. Now, saying that 75% of SAMPLED STORES experienced >= 50% DOA (using above 4 stores) is a true statement, but again is misleading without a true total fish mortality percentage to go along with it (12%) and receiving EQUAL emphasis. I now understand the study a little more, hope the above might help others a little, I just don't like the emphasis, I guess.

 

[kylen]

I think that is why everybody is having a hard time wrapping their heads around the 60% figure for DOA/DAA. All stores are equally weighted within it's region so it doesn't give an overall DOA/DAA figure. However, I think that it is still an eye opener and probably not far from the truth from seven years ago.

I am seeing stores today that are claiming >80% DOA on direct shipments from PI. Others that have killed entire orders from me within 3 days. Problems...I think so.

 

[Frank Lallo]

Oh I have overall DOA.DAA's. These where weighted for a summary so people can see that for every one Quality store there are 10 that should be shut down. As for the DOA & DAA if i give out to much info it will not be hard to start figuring out what stores and who they are. I am sure a few have looked at what has been posted so far and said I know who that one is....lol. As for your post, I shake your hand for putting forth your experience. God knows you will probably be the next target of the talk, post & do nothing assasination squad....lol

Frankie

 

[kylen]

Frank,

I hope your laughing with me, not at me. :wink: I can give a lot more of the same anecdotal evidence. I have to agree, the truly good stores are few and far between.

 

[Frank Lallo]

Kylen,
Diffenately laughing with you, Most people either ignore the problem all together or just don't want to admit it.

Frankie

 

[Frank Lallo]

Here's one for you, A young kid that worked in a store in brooklyn many years back relayed this one to me. The owner routinely mark up his DOA's intentionally so he would get free fish. When the kid asked him why he did it his reply was, How the F*&&^% do they know how many fish died.... LMAO.

 

[Anonymous]

The owner routinely mark up his DOA's intentionally so he would get free fish. When the kid asked him why he did it his reply was, How the F*&&^% do they know how many fish died

Which is why some major wholesalers pick sample stores to help watch their doa/daa claims. I worked at one such store, we reported our doa/daa honestly, and recieved far better fill rates/deals then others. We purchased far more then any other lfs around, so our figures spoke volumes abouts their doa claims.

 

[kylen]

I think that most can relate to these stories and more. I have oftened wondered how a store, where the fish are in the bag for no more than five hours, could have high mortality, but a store where the fish are in the bag for 30+ hours could have zero DOA. Makes you go hmmmm.

Just as a side, I worked for an airline at cargo for 10 years prior to my current vocation...could I tell stories.