The attached picture is of an ad slick that came with the latest Seascope, which is given out for free to hobbyists. It is the Jetstream 125 Super System by Perfecto. That is a 125-gallon tank with at least 16 yellow tangs in it. Just because manufacturers market like this, doesn't mean that retail stores encourage people to do the same. Remember we are the ones that have to listen to the irrate customers when they come back in the store after the fish die.
Tetra Products Boycott?
- Thread starter naesco
- Start date
John_Brandt":24a35l87 said:
Tom,
I am taking back part of my concession to you. I watched the clip again. The word "Tetra" is never uttered by the Tetra representative. The only time anyone says the word "Tetra" is when the host introduces the rep. There are some Tetra products scattered about (none of which are shown close enough to establish visual brand recognition) and the rep does lift the bottle of Tetra conditioner (yet still never says "Tetra", she says you have to use a "water conditioner"). When the rep's name is briefly shown on the screen it does say "Tetra" as her association, and then the web address for Tetra does appear on the screen. Both appear only briefly.
Bottom line to me: If a person didn't quickly jot down the word "Tetra" or the web address, they ain't gonna remember it. The word "Tetra" is only said ONE TIME, and it is at the very beginning.
If I was a Tetra marketer I'd say the show wasn't done in the best way to drive home the brand name. You need to have the name said over and over and over, to get it lodged into peoples' brains.
The reason I'm not taking all of my concession back is because the host did say "Tetra" once and the blurbs with the word "Tetra" did appear, though briefly.
I nearly had an anyurism when my Marineland rep showed me that picture - I commented how ML uses overstocked tanks often in their advertising - he told me himself that he stocked that tank in that photo, with 100 yellow tangs - 8O I didn't believe him but he insisted proudly that it had 100 yellow tangs. I told him that was crazy.
Here's the picture on the MAC brochure, it has at least 16 tangs, a couple dozen clownfishes, damsels, anthias... ouch! When David Vosseler called me some months back, I brought this to his attention - he told me that nobody had mentioned to this to him before and he had no idea.... At that time I communicated to him that I felt that if MAC could make such a blunder on its own PR material that it sent a very mixed message. He told me that he would bring it up to other MAC personnel and the next version of the brochure would be different. I don't know if they created a new one yet, if they have my club hasn't received it yet.
Here's the picture on the MAC brochure, it has at least 16 tangs, a couple dozen clownfishes, damsels, anthias... ouch! When David Vosseler called me some months back, I brought this to his attention - he told me that nobody had mentioned to this to him before and he had no idea.... At that time I communicated to him that I felt that if MAC could make such a blunder on its own PR material that it sent a very mixed message. He told me that he would bring it up to other MAC personnel and the next version of the brochure would be different. I don't know if they created a new one yet, if they have my club hasn't received it yet.
I know a bit about that aquarium used in the MAC brochure.
It was a temporary aquarium set up at a trade show (I think Europe) and it was over 500 gallons. The photo doesn't properly show how large the tank was.
Temporary show aquariums are commonly "overstocked" just for visual appeal. They are supposed to capture your attention and give a dramatic visual scene. Temporary aquariums for photo shoots are also commonly "overstocked" (as you have seen in ads), as the producers fear the look of a barren tank. Fish don't cooperate for photographers, so often the best plan to see fish in the image is to "load up" the tank.
This tank has many fish. The Anthias in the tank that caused Jenn to recoil are Pseudanthias squammapinnis. These are probably the hardiest of all the Anthias. They are not likely candidates for a USL. If I had a 500+ gallon tank I would put in 15 females and a male. Awesome fish! Of course there are way too many clowns, and the future outcome for them (if this were a permanent tank) would be poor because of aggression towards each other.
It's easy to be critical of this tank, however it presents a stunning visual image. It was intended to capture the eye, not instruct on stocking guidelines. Aquarium dealers are supposed to be the aquarists guide to stocking and managing an aquarium, not glossy brochures.
Retailers constantly have to instruct their customers on proper stocking guidelines. Almost daily they will have to explain their own overstocked tanks. "No sir, you cannot have 75 Neon Tetras in a 30 gallon aquarium. We can do it because we have a central filtration system, and we need to carry an inventory of them."
Here's a temporary aquarium that was raffled-off at the latest IMAC-Chicago. There were dozens and dozens of TR clowns and Pseudochromis of several species (thank you ORA). This aquarium was temporary of course, but the winner of the raffle who stands next to it, is not.
It was a temporary aquarium set up at a trade show (I think Europe) and it was over 500 gallons. The photo doesn't properly show how large the tank was.
Temporary show aquariums are commonly "overstocked" just for visual appeal. They are supposed to capture your attention and give a dramatic visual scene. Temporary aquariums for photo shoots are also commonly "overstocked" (as you have seen in ads), as the producers fear the look of a barren tank. Fish don't cooperate for photographers, so often the best plan to see fish in the image is to "load up" the tank.
This tank has many fish. The Anthias in the tank that caused Jenn to recoil are Pseudanthias squammapinnis. These are probably the hardiest of all the Anthias. They are not likely candidates for a USL. If I had a 500+ gallon tank I would put in 15 females and a male. Awesome fish! Of course there are way too many clowns, and the future outcome for them (if this were a permanent tank) would be poor because of aggression towards each other.
It's easy to be critical of this tank, however it presents a stunning visual image. It was intended to capture the eye, not instruct on stocking guidelines. Aquarium dealers are supposed to be the aquarists guide to stocking and managing an aquarium, not glossy brochures.
Retailers constantly have to instruct their customers on proper stocking guidelines. Almost daily they will have to explain their own overstocked tanks. "No sir, you cannot have 75 Neon Tetras in a 30 gallon aquarium. We can do it because we have a central filtration system, and we need to carry an inventory of them."
Here's a temporary aquarium that was raffled-off at the latest IMAC-Chicago. There were dozens and dozens of TR clowns and Pseudochromis of several species (thank you ORA). This aquarium was temporary of course, but the winner of the raffle who stands next to it, is not.
Attachments
John_Brandt":5izaaxxo said:
Well it wasn't *just* the anthias that made me recoil. The whole photo did. Why could MAC not have used a more "typical and appropriate" example for the great unwashed who receive the brochure? In fact, the brochure did not even show any of the species that are currently MAC certified! Not a one! According to David Vosseler, he said the photo was provided and approved and not as second thought was given.
Yeah I've seen lots of those overstuffed tanks at trade shows. The frugal me often shows up again near the end of a trade show, hunting for take-home bargains, and often by the end of a show the water is cloudy, fish are panting, some have died, many are sick - it's really not that pretty. Trade show people know what a tank looks like, it's a poor excuse to overload a tank to show it off for people in the business. It's an even poorer excuse to take a picture to illustrate responsibility in the hobby and slap it on a brochure.
God is in the details, John. What seems an innocent oversight here, actually outraged another hobbyist to the point where he posted that photo on another message board - that's where I linked the photo from in this thread.
Yes retailers have to help hobbyists with their stocking levels - and we all know that some retailers will allow, or enable their clients to stock a tank to the point of insanity, to grab the almighty dollar (God forbid the end-user be responsible for his choices...), but putting a photo like that on a brochure that touts ethics and responsible methods really tells people in a subliminal or subtle way that it is OK to do this.
"Do as I say, not as I do." How often does this really work?
Jenn
John,
The problems with that Marineland ad go a little deeper than setting up a tank for a trade show. That ad is for a drilled 125-gallon system that uses the dual Tidepool filters. The ad very strongly implies that with their filter you can stock the tank as shown. What else would anyone get out of that particular advertisement. I think they should simply stock the tank correctly and then shoot enough shots until they get the one they like. Cramming the tank so there are fish everywhere in the first shot is stupid IMO. That type of advertising needs to stop and Marineland is one of the worst violators. We actually have customers who get mad at us when we tell then they can't stock the Eclipse tanks like they look in the pictures. We like, use, and sell a lot of Tetra, Marineland, Perfecto, and Aquarium System products like Instant Ocean. Marineland needs to get a little more responsible in their marketing approach. Sounds like maybe MAC does too.
The problems with that Marineland ad go a little deeper than setting up a tank for a trade show. That ad is for a drilled 125-gallon system that uses the dual Tidepool filters. The ad very strongly implies that with their filter you can stock the tank as shown. What else would anyone get out of that particular advertisement. I think they should simply stock the tank correctly and then shoot enough shots until they get the one they like. Cramming the tank so there are fish everywhere in the first shot is stupid IMO. That type of advertising needs to stop and Marineland is one of the worst violators. We actually have customers who get mad at us when we tell then they can't stock the Eclipse tanks like they look in the pictures. We like, use, and sell a lot of Tetra, Marineland, Perfecto, and Aquarium System products like Instant Ocean. Marineland needs to get a little more responsible in their marketing approach. Sounds like maybe MAC does too.
Ya know...it boggles my mind when I see the same companies who generously donate their products to clubs, to MACNA, and just about any cause they feel worthy get trashed for making their marketing materials visually appealing.
This VISUAL APPEAL is what's sending customers to your stores, folks...
NS
This VISUAL APPEAL is what's sending customers to your stores, folks...
NS
Nancy Swart":1b1id74o said:
And costs me tons of man-hours explaining why I won't sell them a fish, why their system is overstocked, etc etc etc
Sorry I don't need that kinda help :roll: But then there is the reason why Marineland has a large presence in the chain stores and NOT in mine.
Nancy Swart":2u0rgolg said:
Nancy I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to think that a tank that is properly stocked can be just as, if not more appealing, than the one in the picture. The average Joe doesn't realize that these tanks are set up just to take a picture. Many people go from store to store and don't listen to advice on stocking properly. Could this type of advertising contribute to overstocking? Like I said earlier we sell and recommend a lot of Tetra and Marineland products. BTW those ads don't get people into our store. I have never seen them run it once in the local paper.
Seriously, Mitch. How many average newbie hobbyists can even afford to stock a tank that heavily right off the bat? 
Once they come into your shop, you try to educate them. They'll either listen or tune you out and go somewhere else. It's human nature and the American consumer's right and you've done what's ethically correct.
NS
Once they come into your shop, you try to educate them. They'll either listen or tune you out and go somewhere else. It's human nature and the American consumer's right and you've done what's ethically correct.
NS
A lot can afford to overstock their typical 55 with 6 yellow tangs, 6 clownfish, 6 anthias off the bat. But let's say they spread their overstocking out over a few months- does that make it any better? No. And not every LFS will try to stop a customer from overstocking, in fact many encourage it. So it really doesn't help when MAC and other companies promote (thereby encouraging) this behavior. I don't see how someone can be up in arms about the Tetra debacle that lasted for 3 whole minutes and is forgotten by 99% of the people who saw it already, but think it's ok for an organization like MAC or company like Marineland to blatantly promote such irresponsibility EVERYDAY. I don't think aesthetics is a good excuse. If Tetra was regularly contributing to MACNA, would their actions be excusable as well?
Nancy,
They do exactly the same thing with small freshwater setups. Fifty neons in a five gallon tank. They do it and others begin to copy it. TOM makes a little one-gallon tank. TOM has a picture of four orandas (fancy goldfish) pictured on the box. I assure you that the marketing department for some of these companies have the blood of a lot of cheap freshwater fish on their hands, but I guess they don't count. I'll bet most of the good retailers don't really appreciate this type of help.
They do exactly the same thing with small freshwater setups. Fifty neons in a five gallon tank. They do it and others begin to copy it. TOM makes a little one-gallon tank. TOM has a picture of four orandas (fancy goldfish) pictured on the box. I assure you that the marketing department for some of these companies have the blood of a lot of cheap freshwater fish on their hands, but I guess they don't count. I'll bet most of the good retailers don't really appreciate this type of help.
Nancy Swart":1ycv1dof said:
I can't afford to turn customers away - usually after spending 2-3 hours with ONE customer I have a dedicated customer - however I could have more "regular" customers if I didn't have to devote so much extra time debunking advertising.
Mary,
My personal opinions about these companies have nothing to do with this and nothing to do with whether or not they donate to MACNA. My whole point was let's not be so quick to publicly bite the hand that indirectly feeds us.
Are y'all now gonna boycott Marineland because of this ad? Or Aquarium Systems because it appeared in SeaScope?
Truthfully, Mary, I don't quite understand your hostile tone when you KNOW I've never played the politics game.
NS
My personal opinions about these companies have nothing to do with this and nothing to do with whether or not they donate to MACNA. My whole point was let's not be so quick to publicly bite the hand that indirectly feeds us.
Are y'all now gonna boycott Marineland because of this ad? Or Aquarium Systems because it appeared in SeaScope?
Truthfully, Mary, I don't quite understand your hostile tone when you KNOW I've never played the politics game.
NS
Sponsor Reefs
We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.
Click here to sponsor $10:
