• Why not take a moment to introduce yourself to our members?

John_Brandt

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
POPULATION BODY CHIEF ADMITS GOV'T FAILURE


By Sol Jose Vanzi - Philippine Headline News
May 6, 2003

There are 1.8 million babies born in the Philippines every year, or four every minute.

As the state of the environment is one of the essentials at the beginning of life, these infants would live in a world that can hardly offer them a warm welcome because of the devastation of the surroundings.

Executive Director Tomas M. Osias of the Commission on Population said more babies will be born, but the reality of an environment in ruin must encourage Filipinos to put more attention to improve the surroundings.

"Like human life, the earth has integrity that needs to be respected," he said. "If we do our individual contributions towards managing our environment, we can stop the cycle of poverty in poor households where children start life in dreadful conditions." Osias said 40 percent of the estimated 82 million population today live below poverty line, or they live below one dollar a day. "The poorer an individual becomes, the least he or she gets a share of the limited resources, which, in turn become lesser because of the increase in the number of people who compete for their needs."

Citing studies, he said the environment has changed drastically because of the utter disregard for the consequences of having large families that are unplanned-childbearing age women give birth to four children when in reality, they want not more than three.

Osias said that with half the population aged 21 and below, the current rate of childbirth is not expected to slow down in the coming years, and the prospect of a slow economic progress and low food production, including the need for more and better social services, is expected.

"The challenge of making the quality of life more decent will remain difficult," he said. He added that the Philippines now faces a serious problem of continuing loss of forest cover, mangroves and coral reefs; silting of rivers and dams; pollution of air and freshwater bodies and the depletion of aquifers and other sources of potable water.

Almost 80 percent of tropical forests and mangroves have been cleared and forest resources have been shrinking by 119,000 hectares each year. At this rate, the remaining forests will be depleted in just 10 years. Overfishing and a rising coastal population, estimated at 40 million in the last decade, has destroyed 95 percent of coral reefs, reducing the stock of fish. Water supply and quality is a problem in highly urbanized cities because of the rapid consumption.

Osias said Filipinos will continue to overexploit what remains of their resources, making a slim chance for them to give something back to the earth.


Development along Pasig River, Manila, Philippines. Photo by James Oliver.
IMG_5805am.JPG
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
One should be aware of something looking at this photo:

You can see a road alongside the river.

The road is actually the edge of the river. There is a guardrail, then it drops down into the actual river.

All the structures you see on the river-side of the road are squatters, living in huts, typically on stilts, over the river water.

The river water is gross- the river is used as a trashcan and toilet and whatnot.

This is poverty at its finest.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
And,
It proves the virtues of water hyacinth as a filtering plant. Of course it can't complete the job but without it things would be so much worse.
Steve
 

Jaime Baquero

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
mkirda":17p1g5au said:
One should be aware of something looking at this photo:

You can see a road alongside the river.

The road is actually the edge of the river. There is a guardrail, then it drops down into the actual river.

All the structures you see on the river-side of the road are squatters, living in huts, typically on stilts, over the river water.

The river water is gross- the river is used as a trashcan and toilet and whatnot.

This is poverty at its finest.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

One more thing the smell is something you won't forget!
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Jaime Baquero":2uho3wy4 said:
One more thing the smell is something you won't forget!

Jaime,

Actually, I found that the odors coming from a fish market in NYC's Chinatown to be more offensive. Even more so than the wet markets around Manila.

Maybe the wind was blowing the right direction... I dunno. The river was gross, but it wasn't as bad as one might think, stink-wise.

Not to minimize things too much- It is not a healthy place to live by any stretch of the imagination. If the river rises, the squatter's homes often are washed away. Manila floods pretty regularly in many sections- Even in Makati. (Wife's relatives have a piano in their living room up on cement blocks due to the floods...) Still, only the poorest of the poor end up here at the river's edge. All the water from the streets ends up in the river, so you can imagine how it is after a nice tropical storm.

Yet, they still keep rebuilding.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

blue hula3

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
the pope has a lot to answer for in the Philippines. Lack of access to birth control in rural areas ... even when you already have 2, 3, 4, 5 little ones makes it very difficult to solve broader conservation issues.

Blue hula
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
vox populei, vox dei :wink:

overpopulation is alway the populations' fault,and no one elses, imo
 

blue hula3

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Really ... I'm glad I'm not expected to keep my hormones under control on sultry tropical nights with no tv or hockey games to distract.

There's a reason it's called "doing what comes naturally" and it's a double standard to have that kind of expectation.

I've walked into rural hospitals and been chewed out by trained doctors about the "selfish" attitudes of westerns in not wanting to have large families of 4 or 5 or 6 or ...

Women I worked with in the villages were desparate to stop family size at 3 or 4 but can't get access to ANY birth control other than abstinence which doesn't seem to fly all that well with the boys.

The pope easing up on god's requirement to be fruitful would undoubtedly help because it is the church controlling access.

There is a direct correlation between poverty and family size and poverty and overfishing.

It broke my heart to see families with 11 children with the distended bellies we are more accustomed to seeing in Africa.

Vietnam on the other hand is getting on top of its population issues and is also coming on as a regional economic power house ... despite having had the crap bombed out of it in the not so distant past.

Blue
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
vitz":2kmo8g3c said:
overpopulation is alway the populations' fault,and no one elses, imo

Your opinion not withstanding, the truth is there is no access to birth control.

Understand that many have no access to land, clean water, adequate food supplies, electricity, etc., etc.

In the face of all of these adversities, you expect universal free birth control?

Westerners in general will find it very, very hard to wrap their minds around reality for the average Filipino. Or average third-world family, for that matter.
It is just so alien to our comfortable existance.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
vitz":1tdge41v said:
hmmmm...

fair enough

Vitz,

Trust me. I understand why you feel the way you do on this.
My personal take on it is far closer to your opinion than you might think.
However, I do have an understanding of their circumstances as well.

Sometimes what seems so black and white to us is really far grayer than we would like to admit when we take into account others circumstances.

They take their religion far more seriously than the US does: Most US Roman-Catholics I know openly flaunt their differences with the Pope. This is not the same in the Philippines, where they still believe in Papal doctrines. That big families are good. That sex is for procreation, not recreation. That the only acceptable form of birth control is the rhythm method.

All this pushes up the population far faster than it should, making the country poorer in the process.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Population problem?
Scientifically speaking?
The greatest population problem in the world is measured in what population uses, abuses, absorbs, liquidates, cuts down, ruins, depletes, cleans out, wipes out and decimates the most of the world resources in excess of its share.
Futhermore, which people cause the most stress on resources beyond their own border and out of proportion to planetary population.
25 Filipino children that use very little in the way of energy, oil, metals, chemicals, timber, food etc. are way more affordable to the world than even one child of some other indolent, wasteful countries that take a proprietary view of the world resources that I can think of.
True, they stress their own home base....but nobody elses.
But some stress not their own so much as EVERYBODY ELSES.
Oooopps,
I forgot that I was an American for a minute and was thinking rationally and not with the rabid cultural bias that we are generally noted for. Sorry.
Steve
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
cortez marine":gsgzh8qa said:
Population problem?

More of a rhetoric problem, Steve.

While I agree with your assessments, you have to understand that no one wants to hear it. Yelling it, shoving it in their faces, etc. does nothing to get the message across. The exact opposite, really.

You want to know what really worries me?

China.

You must realize that bringing the Chinese population up to US standards of living will consume more resources than this planet has, right?

Our lifestyle must change. Or the way we consume resources to achieve this lifestyle must change. Probably both will.

But this is way too esoteric a discussion, and gets off-topic for this post.

I think the biggest issue is more how to remediate some over-worked resources, then how best to manage them so that the local populations can benefit best from them. And that means money in the hands of the local population, spread around to everyone. It doesn't have to be a lot. Just enough to raise the local standards of living a notch or two.

Around the Pasig River, you have to understand that these people cannot begin to afford to buy land. It is an economic impossibility for them: Imagine making $5/day, then buying a $50,000 plot of land... Do you think it is possible? Even at $2000, land is beyond their reach.

I am not without hope though. In the villages, things are different, and I can see incremental approaches working. Improving income so that a family might replace a leaking roof. Buying them a few chickens so that they can sell the extra eggs. Etc. etc. These things will add significantly to their lives.

Much more so than radicals here burning the yuppie's SUVs.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yes...TO BE SURE.
Americans consider their own lifestyle off limits in the discussion.
A sacred cow and devine right to be first in the buffet line on a permanant basis no less. China wants to be like us? Does that imply theres something about us thats a little 'much?'
Of course it does. Imagine others wanting to attain the standard America has made the benchmark of success? They should stifle themselves! Do they not know such 'manifest destiney' is unsustainable?
Bear in mind, as we link and think of village fisherfolk, their governments leaders are Americanized, drive SUVs and send their kids to school here quite often. American style leadership in a cheap labor country enables cheaper labor, exploitive policies and it follows extractive practices.We say poverty, they say "attractive low cost labor" to foreign investors. Perhaps the poor are there by design and to support their own countries elites.
But I must stop now...because thats why the fish are so cheap and our trade enjoys the windfall because of it.
Sorry if I can see beyond the fish trade in the morning before settling down to sales. Aha...first order coming in. I'm back to normal now.
Steve
 

mkirda

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
cortez marine":3bxo1sct said:
Perhaps the poor are there by design and to support their own countries elites.

If so, it is for political reasons rather than economic. The best way for the rich to get richer is to have a middle class, not to just have the astronomically rich and the exceedingly poor. It is in the best economic interests of the rich to have a viable middle class.

Politically though, the middle class is so much harder to control.

Poverty concentrates political power, while more even economic distributions tend to dilute this concentration. Economically speaking, keeping the country poor is irrational.

But again, I am headed into stratospheric esoteric levels here: Levels none of us can do anything about. Concentrate on what is achievable. It is fairly easy to make the poor less poor while improving the environment.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

blue hula3

Experienced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
mkirda":92y5b18w said:
Around the Pasig River, you have to understand that these people cannot begin to afford to buy land. It is an economic impossibility for them: Imagine making $5/day, then buying a $50,000 plot of land... Do you think it is possible? Even at $2000, land is beyond their reach.

I am not without hope though. In the villages, things are different, and I can see incremental approaches working. Improving income so that a family might replace a leaking roof. Buying them a few chickens so that they can sell the extra eggs. Etc. etc. These things will add significantly to their lives.

Which brings us back to the pope and condoms ... much easier to get those extra eggs if there are 4 of you rather than 10. I totally agree that China is worrisome (and India)... but from a marine conservation point of view - the biodiversity hotspots for corals are the Phils / Indo triangle. If poverty continues to fuel trashing of the reefs ... we're in for a huge loss. And poverty is correlated to family size ... so I come back to the view that most of our marine conservation efforts are useless in the face of unrestricted pop. growth. Pope ! Get a grip!

Blue hula
 

clarionreef

Advanced Reefer
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
A previous pope [ John ] begged to differ,
He said in 1967 that ..."We must strive to multiply bread rather than favor a control of birth, which would be an irrational attempt to diminish the number of guests at the great banquet of life."

So breed and multiply feed? That was the highest thinking on the matter?
NOW ITS 2003 AND the exponential breedin outruns the shortfall in feedin...a whole new dogma is what the people are needin. One that values the quality of life for souls here on on earth instead of pushing up the 'body-count' of saved ones for heaven.

He don't play the game...he shouldn't be makin the rules.
Steve
 

PeterIMA

Advanced Reefer
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
In addition to the pope, I think the blame lies with Cardinal Sin (if he is still alive). Cardinal Sin is (or was) a true sinner against Filipinos.
Peter
 

Sponsor Reefs

We're a FREE website, and we exist because of hobbyists like YOU who help us run this community.

Click here to sponsor $10:


Top