Whats in the soup?

[Kalkbreath]

For some reason, this forum has focused on fish and the behind the scenes of our finned friends........but I have a group question about the hobby and reef additives..........I contend that the main reason the majority of hobbyists fail to do well and in turn drop out of the hobby......is all these reef potions and the green fur that results...when adding them ......I maintain eight reef systems in our store and add very little if anything to them ... other then water changes every two weeks ..............I have never had Hair algae in any of them ...I use the same RO water... the same salt ....the same live rock....We even use more light .....1000 wat and dual 400 watt bulbs!.........yet the majority of our customers have never ending battles with the green stuff.....We sell a lot of supliments and DTs .....Does the marketing of all these supplements actually HARM the industry by causing many to fail .......and thus exit the hobby.......?

 

[Anonymous]

Good question. It probably also has a lot to do with failure to follow directions and the tendency to overdose. It never ceases to amaze me how many people have no clue how big their aquariums are, and can't remember the name of the stuff they poured in yesterday.

 

[Anonymous]

It also helps to read the labels fully and understand them without making asSUMPtions. I myself have just learned this through trial and error. Never assume anything especially when dosing with dnagerous "potions".

 

[Anonymous]

5 ml <> 15ml

 

[Expos Forever]

Let's see. If there are approximately 3.152 hobbiests per thousand in the USA. The population is est. 292,298,577. So 292,298,577*0.003152* = 921325 hobbiests. Take the 1,000,0000 gallons worth of additives sold (approximately 8 Wal-Mart tractor trailers full) divide by the 921325 hobbiests divide by the average aquarium size of 72.87 gallons and you will see that only .00000000000235 gallons are going into each hobbiests tank per year. In conclusion we clearly see that additives are not a problem in the hobby today. :wink:

 

[StevenPro]

Let's see. If there are approximately 3.152 hobbiests per thousand in the USA. The population is est. 292,298,577. So 292,298,577*0.003152* = 921325 hobbiests. Take the 1,000,0000 gallons worth of additives sold (approximately 8 Wal-Mart tractor trailers full) divide by the 921325 hobbiests divide by the average aquarium size of 72.87 gallons and you will see that only .00000000000235 gallons are going into each hobbiests tank per year. In conclusion we clearly see that additives are not a problem in the hobby today. :wink:

I am just curious as to where you got those numbers. In particular, the number of hobyists in the US.

 

[Anonymous]

:lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

For some reason, this forum has focused on fish and the behind the scenes of our finned friends........but I have a group question about the hobby and reef additives..........I contend that the main reason the majority of hobbyists fail to do well and in turn drop out of the hobby......is all these reef potions and the green fur that results...when adding them ......I maintain eight reef systems in our store and add very little if anything to them ... other then water changes every two weeks ..............I have never had Hair algae in any of them ...I use the same RO water... the same salt ....the same live rock....We even use more light .....1000 wat and dual 400 watt bulbs!.........yet the majority of our customers have never ending battles with the green stuff.....We sell a lot of supliments and DTs .....Does the marketing of all these supplements actually HARM the industry by causing many to fail .......and thus exit the hobby.......?

to answer your question directly, kalk...

i think that most of the products sold in this product driven industry definitely do more long term harm, than good

the lfs is in kindof a catch22 :wink:

they need to sell products to survive, yet 99%, or better, are pure hogwash

this holds true for fw products, as well

weiss. 'can't marine', mardel, are all products i try to educate customers to avoid like the plague

i'd rather have 'em just buyin lotsa food, long term-there's just as good a margin on it, and it causes far fewer problems :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Let's see. If there are approximately 3.152 hobbiests per thousand in the USA. The population is est. 292,298,577. So 292,298,577*0.003152* = 921325 hobbiests. Take the 1,000,0000 gallons worth of additives sold (approximately 8 Wal-Mart tractor trailers full) divide by the 921325 hobbiests divide by the average aquarium size of 72.87 gallons and you will see that only .00000000000235 gallons are going into each hobbiests tank per year. In conclusion we clearly see that additives are not a problem in the hobby today. :wink:

My math using your numbers finds one million gallons divided by one million hobbyists{921,325}is clearly one gallon per hobbyist ...

 

[Anonymous]

hmmm...

that doesn't exactly jive with the amount of relative shelf space i see in most lfs's devoted to additives, as opposed to truly useful products :wink:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Im using his numbers ....not mine........but my inhouse numbers clearly show a lot of plankton and reef soup like products going out the door.......As a store owner I cannot understand why so many of our customers have constant green algae problems ......I use the same water ,same liverock etc .....our livestock tanks are packed tighter then any customer tank ...we have fish in the systems {fed daily}......yet I never have hair algae problems ........?

 

[Anonymous]

i can't understand why most customers ignore my advice about most aquarium supplements in general

i guess the pretty bottle w/the fancy label knows more than i do-even when the customer sees the results of my work, w/their own eyes

go figger

(i'm actually starting to see the 'retail wisdom' of the line 'never try to smarten up a chump') :roll:

 

[Expos Forever]

StevenPro wrote

I am just curious as to where you got those numbers. In particular, the number of hobyists in the US.

My previous post was my (apparently feeble) attempt at poking fun at Kalk's (in)famous posts about wild coral collection and cyanide use. The math, figures, and content were fictitious and strictly tongue-in-cheek. To be honest, I'm not sure who's joking anymore and who's serious (or if anybody except Rover even caught the joke) so I just thought I should post this clarification before somebody starts quoting my numbers or using them for a market survey. :wink: I do have to say that Kalk correcting my "math" was pretty funny, at least to me.

Just so I can say I added something at least relatively intelligent to the topic I was a bit surprised to see DT's lumped in with the Weiss products of the world... IMO one is a relatively useful product and one isn't.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Actually, I am lumping all the Calorie supplements in one group.......Kent,Seachem and just about every other manufacturer now offers "the magic soup supplement that will make your corals thrive" .............................. Apple juice or the fish paste............I feel these products are causing hobbyists to fail.......and thus drop out altogether.........a comparison study of those reefers that use use reef soup.....and those that dont,seemsto indicate that there is some truth to my suspicions.......?

 

[blue hula3]

Salut Erik,

Might be a canadian thing ... I had a good chuckle too

Go habs go

Blue hula

 

[dizzy]

:lol:

 

[Kalkbreath]

OK....... so he got me........but the really funny part is that those numbers he gave ........were the first set that seemed quite reasonable.......Is it not funny that the first person {other then myself:lol: .} to report accurate data.........was completely by accident?

 

[blue hula3]

How many different supplements do you think a given hobbyist would be dosing his/her tank with at the same time (e.g. over a 3 month period) ?

Blue hula

 

[Kalkbreath]

Of the people that "feed" their corals with plankton type supplements..................most use two products.......i.e. one Green and one zoo plankton....each lasting about thirty days{16oz}...But on top of that they also use inorganic supplements like mag,stron,iodine, and essential mixes of trace elements........"Soup"is an understatement.......... it always a seasaw....{pun} ..........Its impossible for almost any hobbyists to balance and keep from over dosing...........It is so much easier to replenish needed elements with a water exchange......It is impossible to over dose with a water change..........{well some batches of instant ocean not with standing}. Nutrients are exported......and the headaches of testing and dosing are held to a minimum.........

 

[JennM]

Well then, Kalk, I have to ask... if you feel that hobbyists buying and using too many supplements is causing them to fail, why do you sell them?

FWIW, I carry a variety, but only recommend and use a couple of things - and those are the things I sell the most of, because folks ask, "What do YOU do?" I'm the first to admit I'm sporadic at best for adding supplements, but I do and advocate doing regular water changes with good salt mix.

I don't have hobbyists dropping out left and right... and those who do start having problems, my first advice is usually to STOP tinkering, and let the tank balance itself.

JMHO
Jenn