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JennM

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I think that the reporter misunderstood what Paul Holthus was saying during this interview. Original article can be found at this link from the Houston Chronicle

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/h ... nt/1965395

June 26, 2003, 9:20AM

'Finding Nemo' presses hot buttons for ecologists
By ALEXANDER LANE
Copyright 2003 Newhouse News Service
Finding Nemo, the hit Disney movie about a tropical fish desperate to escape from a dentist's aquarium, is full of messages.

SEE IT NOW
• Watch the Finding Nemo trailers: 1 2
• Visit the Web site
It preaches against everything from overprotective fathers to trawling boats that catch too many innocent by-swimmers.

But it also sermonizes at the growing subculture of saltwater aquarium keepers. The film portrays the capturing of fish and other creatures from coral reefs -- the primary means of supplying saltwater aquariums -- as cruel and destructive.

A diver nets young Nemo from his reef in a terrifying sequence. He and Gill, a crusty old angelfish who also was born in the ocean, spend their time in the glass prison concocting elaborate escape schemes.


Nemo and Gill, a crusty old angelfish who also was born in the ocean, spend their time concocting elaborate escape schemes in Finding Nemo.
"Since the reviews first started, that's all the reefers have been talking about," said Philip Levanda of Nutley, N.J., a 27-year-old engineer and addicted coral-reef keeper.

Intentionally or not, Disney has dived into the hottest issue in the world of tropical fish-keeping. Pet stores are filled with fish, corals, anemones and other creatures ripped from depleted coral reefs, often after having been stunned by a squirt of cyanide.

Reef-lovers are trying to stem the practice. A Hawaii-based group is struggling to start a stamp-of-approval program for retailers who say their creatures have been tank-bred or "ethically captured." Nine-year-old Alexander Gould, the voice of Nemo, has signed on as the group's spokesman.

"When I first started out I didn't know about the cyanide and the depletion," Levanda said. "Lately I've been watching who I buy from and where they're getting it from."

Levanda said he trades with other expert hobbyists and buys from Internet providers who advertise ethical collection.

Aquarium keeping has been around since the mid-1800s, but only in the past 12 years or so has the average home hobbyist been able to maintain a miniature coral reef. Advances in science's understanding of ocean chemistry have enabled anyone willing to spend several hundred dollars to create their own tropical ecosystem.

Retailers sell rock chiseled off reefs from Fiji, the Philippines, Indonesia and elsewhere, crawling with bacteria that digest harmful nitrogen into oxygen. Hermit crabs and starfish scour the sand, filtering out fish waste, with mechanical protein skimmers taking up the slack. Powerful halogen lights feed photosynthetic corals. Aquarists treat their water with everything from synthetic salt to calcium supplements.

Between gear and creatures, it has exploded into a $500 million industry, experts say. Though statistics are not methodically compiled, about 10 million marine specimens were sold in U.S. pet stores at an average price of $10 in 1995, according to an American Marinelife Dealers Association survey.

Coral reefs are treasures of biodiversity. They represent about 1 percent of the ocean, yet 25 percent of all marine species rely on them for some element of their life span, such as spawning or feeding.

Corals themselves -- tiny animals whose colonies can take the forms of everything from branching trees to pipe organs to neon-green brains -- are relatively easy to propagate in captivity. Hobbyists can simply cut off a fragment of a friend's specimen, glue it to a rock and watch it grow.

But many are chiseled off reefs and sold by stores. And tropical fish are more difficult to propagate. Though major advances have been made in captive breeding of clownfish -- Nemo's species and the most popular aquarium fish -- many fish larvae will not survive in captivity. Only about 2 percent of fish sold in pet stores are bred in captivity, according to the Hawaii-based Marine Aquarium Council.

The council has created a certification program for nondestructive fish collectors, middlemen and retailers, but the effort is in its infancy. The group approves of collecting live fish, as long as it is done with drugs and does not exhaust the local population of a species.

"The reality is this trade will be based on wild-caught fish for a long time to come. The need is to fix it," said executive director Paul Holthus.
 

John_Brandt

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Letter from MAC to the author of this article:

Hi, Alexander:

The Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) has just been forwarded a copy of your article "'Finding Nemo' presses hot buttons for ecologists," which ran in the Houston Chronicle today, June 26.

There is a very significant error in the article, and we strongly request that you send out a correction to be published in all the publications that ran the article.

The penultimate paragraph states: "The council has created a certification program for nondestructive fish collectors, middlemen and retailers, but the effort is in its infancy. The group approves of collecting live fish, as long as it is done with drugs and does not exhaust the local population of a species."

In reality, the MAC Standards prohibits the use of any drugs to capture marine aquarium organisms. MAC and its partners expend enormous resources and effort to train fishermen to use hand nets so they won't use cyanide and other drugs.

I can't stress enough the significance of this error, and do hope you will do all that is possible to see that it is publicly corrected.

Thank you,

Sylvia Spalding, Communications Director
Marine Aquarium Council
923 Nu'uanu Ave., Honolulu, Hawaii USA 96817
 

mkirda

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One whoopsie?!?

Tons of them...

Nitrogen into oxygen?
Mechanical protein skimming?
Gill an angelfish?
Filipino live rock?
Crawling bacteria?
halogen lights?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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mkirda":17awzsbi said:
One whoopsie?!?

Tons of them...

Nitrogen into oxygen?

I think those bacteria are called Fermitoccus - they were the real inspiration for the Manhatten Project :mrgreen:

OTOH some would regard skimming as a mechanical filter, though its really based on chemical properties - I usually use call them nutrient exporters - less confusion that way.
 

JennM

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Yeah I saw some of the other errors too. Actually the article was sent to me by a friend who isn't even in the hobby - and I skimmed it. Scott read it and pointed out the glaring "drug" error to me. The article actually appeared yesterday, or at least the link was sent to me yesterday.

Jenn
 

dizzy

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John_Brandt":1lu4gxya said:
Letter from MAC to the author of this article:
Hi, Alexander:
In reality, the MAC Standards prohibits the use of any drugs to capture marine aquarium organisms. MAC and its partners expend enormous resources and effort to train fishermen to use hand nets so they won't use cyanide and other drugs.
Thank you,
Sylvia Spalding, Communications Director
Marine Aquarium Council
923 Nu'uanu Ave., Honolulu, Hawaii USA 96817

John,
I see a couple of problems in this letter that Sylvia sent to the reporter. What are the other drugs that MAC is trying to prevent the divers from using? I thought only cyanide was being used for fish capture. Are they working on that meth amphetamine problem Horge mentioned as well? Second she makes it sound like MAC has been training the divers to chase down the fish with butterfly nets or something. In the absence of the barrier netting I guess this would be the option, but I'm certain the catch would be very low. Please explain what type of net training MAC has been doing. I hate to pick of Sylvia because she is very nice, but I just wanted to point out how people can misintrepret loosely written statements.
 

John_Brandt

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Mitch,

Sylvia is using the term drugs in an open generic fashion. MAC forbids the use of any drugs in the collection of marine fish; even though sodium cyanide is the only one known to be used. There always would remain the potential for fishers to use quinaldine or clove oil or whatever...all of them are (or would be) against MAC Standards.

She didn't mean to suggest that fish are only caught with hand nets, per se. Barrier nets are used along with hand nets. But technically, hand nets are probably used for almost every fish anyway. Drive a fish into a barrier net, then scoop them off of the barrier net with a hand net. That's the way it works.

"Please explain what type of net training MAC has been doing." What type of net training? The kind with nets, of course. It's unfortunate that yourself and others have been subject to tainted rumors about MAC not doing trainings, or their fishers not having nets. I'll probably have some detailed information to offer on MAC trainings in the near future.
 

mkirda

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John_Brandt":k22nghlh said:
It's unfortunate that yourself and others have been subject to tainted rumors about MAC not doing trainings, or their fishers not having nets.

John,

It is not about not having nets... They have been talking about the fishermen not have the proper kind of nets, or the proper kind of material for the nets.
Or the proper color (i.e. clear instead of white or black)...
Or them having to hand-tie their own nets because the proper material was not available to them.

This I wanted to make clear: These complaints are from the fishermen themselves, out in the field... While the fishermen may like their 'tsismis'(gossip), this is not some sort of 'tainted rumor'.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

dizzy

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Attention important news scoop. I was able to get a picture of the new MAC hand net trainer in action. It is being brought to you as an rdo exclusive. :lol:
 

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JennM

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I too, had sent an email to the paper noting the discrepancy. I just received a response (automated?) saying that it was being forwarded to the editorial department.

Jenn
 

clarionreef

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I'll keep it short...
"enormous amounts of resources and efforts" to train divers?
That statement is as erroneous as any in this whole snafu.
Then again, she didn't claim success from these "enormous amounts of resources and efforts".
This is not being picky or difficult. Glossing over the core criticism of the MAC approach may work with the lay public but not with marinelife dealers who still haven't hardly anything to sell....from these enormous amounts of resources and efforts.
Juxtaposing this recent claim together with the admitted "massive amounts of mistakes" might leave one to look for other routes to salvation.
Steve
 
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John_Brandt":32dq6o8s said:
Mitch,

There always would remain the potential for fishers to use quinaldine or clove oil or whatever...all of them are (or would be) against MAC Standards.

Heh, guess no ORA fish will ever be to MAC standards.
 

mkirda

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clkohly":ck3a8wzq said:
Heh, guess no ORA fish will ever be to MAC standards.

The way the standards are written, captive-bred fish are not MAC-certifiable.
This is likely an oversight on their part back in the beginning, in thinking only about the wild-fish issue. I would expect them to address this at some future point. John?

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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mkirda":1rr9sn9k said:
clkohly":1rr9sn9k said:
Heh, guess no ORA fish will ever be to MAC standards.

The way the standards are written, captive-bred fish are not MAC-certifiable.
This is likely an oversight on their part back in the beginning, in thinking only about the wild-fish issue. I would expect them to address this at some future point. John?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

ORA and some other wholesalers use Q in small quantities in their shipment waters.
 

mkirda

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clkohly":22dov4de said:
mkirda":22dov4de said:
ORA and some other wholesalers use Q in small quantities in their shipment waters.

I'm not sure that this is against the standards as written...

As I recall, they are concerned with using drugs to 'catch' fish, not to medicate them. Making them sleep for shipping is not against the standards, unless my memory fails me here...

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

John_Brandt

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mkirda":77e6wita said:
John_Brandt":77e6wita said:
It's unfortunate that yourself and others have been subject to tainted rumors about MAC not doing trainings, or their fishers not having nets.

John,

It is not about not having nets... They have been talking about the fishermen not have the proper kind of nets, or the proper kind of material for the nets.
Or the proper color (i.e. clear instead of white or black)...
Or them having to hand-tie their own nets because the proper material was not available to them.

This I wanted to make clear: These complaints are from the fishermen themselves, out in the field... While the fishermen may like their 'tsismis'(gossip), this is not some sort of 'tainted rumor'.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Mike,

I'm glad that you sought to clarify this. Members of this forum have been saying that there is no netting being provided to MAC collectors. More of the loose words, slippidy-slide criticisms that aren't literally true. This audience was recently told that MAC actually tells exporters to mix non-MAC Certified fish with Certified. Completely false and misleading.

So now what you are saying is that MAC facilitates netting for their fishers but it is the wrong kind. The equipment I saw at Batasan Island looked quite functional. After all, they do catch their fish with those nets...all of them. I will make inquiries pertaining to the question of MAC Certification-Candidate Collectors suggesting (complaining) to MAC about the netting.

The 'tainted rumor' is/was that MAC provides (or facilitates the procurement of) no netting whatsover to the collectors. This has been implied.
 

JeremyR

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Speaking of quinaldine.. it's rampant in the carib.. and carib fish are seriously sucking these days. Cyanide isn't the only problem, and most people have no idea that their carib fish was most likely NOT net caught but DRUG caught in haiti. While the world is trying to fix the phil fishery, the carib fishery is in serious decline, and it's alot closer to home.
 

John_Brandt

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Oh man! I'm really sorry to hear about that.

I have known for a long time that quinaldine hydrochloride was used irregularly and inconsistently in the Tropical Atlantic and Caribbean. It's always been the talk that they would use it on Yellowhead Jawfish.

You have now characterized its use as widespread. Can you qualify your suggestion that its use is rampant? Are you making any assumptions that are strictly based on the mortality or general health of these fishes, without direct knowledge of the collecting methodology? Bad handling and transport could result in similar problems with the fish, yes?
 

JeremyR

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If you do websearches on the subject alone, a plethora of info pops up. But no, many wholesalers in the florida region have told me flat out that it's "rampant".. extremely widespread. If you look, there is plenty of stuff to find...
 

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