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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/inter ... 1FILI.html



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April 11, 2004
U.S. Warns the Philippines on Terror Groups
By RAYMOND BONNER and CARLOS H. CONDE

MANILA, April 7 — The Bush administration has quietly warned the Philippine government that it has not been doing enough to crack down on terrorist groups in the country, Western and Philippine officials said.

The diplomatic reproach, which has not been made public, was delivered to President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo at a late-night meeting nearly three weeks ago and comes after two years of public praise from Washington for her support in the Bush administration's campaign against terrorism.

It also comes after a reassessment about the terrorist capacities, objectives and international connections of Abu Sayyaf, the Philippine rebel group that has a reputation for kidnapping and beheading hostages.

At the same time, a new Islamic organization has emerged that claims Muslims were here before the Spaniards, who brought Christianity, and focuses on converting Christians to Islam, then sending them for terrorist training. American officials said they know little about the group.

In spite of recent arrests, which came as a result of the American warning, there is still a high level of tension here about a possible terrorist attack. There is a lot of chatter on intercepted phone conversations that has everyone worried, Western and Philippine officials said.

The warning the Americans delivered to the Philippines is similar to one they delivered to the Indonesian government weeks before the attacks in Bali in October 2002.

The Philippine government has been "in a state of denial" about the terrorist threat, said a Western diplomat, explaining what prompted the American warning, which was made on March 22. The United States was joined by Australia and Britain in the warning, diplomats and Philippine officials said.

Over a period of months, the United States had given the Philippines intelligence that should have led to the arrest of suspected terrorists, including the leader of Abu Sayyaf, and the Philippine government did not act, one Western diplomat said.

Asked about the warning, President Arroyo's national security adviser, Norberto Gonzales, said, "I think they have changed their position by now."

Eight days later, on March 30, Philippine authorities, acting on intelligence provided by the United States, arrested six people suspected of planning attacks in Manila.

On Tuesday, the United States Justice Department began proceedings that could lead to the extradition of one of those arrested, Alhamser Manatad Limbong.

Along with several other suspected members of Abu Sayyaf, Mr. Limbong was indicted by a federal grand jury in Washington in December 2002, charged with the kidnapping and murder of several Americans.

After his capture, he confessed to taking part in the beheading of one American hostage, Guillermo Sobero, in June 2001, Philippine officials said.

They said that another of the six people arrested on March 30 had confessed to planting an explosive device, concealed inside a television, on a ferry in Manila harbor. The ferry attack caused an explosion and fire that killed more than 100 people. Until the confession, the Philippine government had steadfastly refused to call the explosion, on Feb. 27, a terrorist attack.

The United States has bomb experts here who could determine the exact cause of the explosion, diplomats said, but the Philippine government has not allowed them.

Its "utter refusal to do anything" about the ferry attack was another reason for the warning, a Western diplomat said.

When the police arrested Mr. Limbong and the others they also seized nearly 180 pounds of TNT, leading Mrs. Arroyo to say that "another Madrid" had been avoided.

Diplomats and security officials said that in invoking the train bombings in Madrid, Mrs. Arroyo engaged in a bit of election-time hyperbole. The presidential election is May 10. Still, they do not deny their concerns.

Jemaah Islamiyah, the Indonesian-based terrorist group, often seen as Al Qaeda's surrogate in the region, is continuing to operate camps in the southern Philippines, with another 40 recruits reported to have graduated in February, Western and Philippine officials said.

An alliance of sorts has been formed between Jemaah Islamiyah, Abu Sayyaf and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, which has been waging a war against the Philippine government in Mindanao for more than two decades.

In areas controlled by the front, Jemaah Islamiyah has camps, where Indonesian instructors train recruits from Indonesia and the Philippines, including members of Abu Sayyaf, according to the Philippine and Western security officials.

The Moro leaders have repeatedly denied that they tolerate any camps, saying that if they exist, they are in areas controlled by renegade factions, a claim American officials say they find hard to accept.

The Arroyo administration has been reluctant to move militarily against the Moro Front, arguing that it will upset peace negotiations.

The new group on the scene is the Rajah Solaiman Movement, which recruits Christians, then presses them to convert to a militant form of Islam.

Founded in 2002, its goal is the "Islamization of the whole country on the belief that before the Spaniards came with Christianity, there were Muslims" here, according to a Philippine intelligence report.

The movement has a Special Operations group and a Special Action Force, and is financed by money from Saudi Arabia that is channeled through charities in the Philippines, the report says.

Three American officials from different agencies said that they were not aware of the report, which was prepared two years ago, and that they knew little about the group.

On one occasion, the leader of Abu Sayyaf, Khadaffy Janjalani, gave the Rajah Solaiman Movement the equivalent of about $200,000 for operational activities, the report said.

Abu Sayyaf was founded in the early 1990's with the goal of creating an Islamic state in the Philippines. Osama bin Laden, the leader of Al Qaeda, provided early encouragement and financial support. Within a few years, however, Abu Sayyaf had lost most of its religious orientation and become what American officials called "thugs for hire."

Within the past year or so, Abu Sayyaf apparently has returned to its religious roots, the officials said. It may have done so after receiving a message from Al Qaeda to cease kidnappings because they were bringing too much retaliation from the American military, an American official said.

On more than one occasion in recent months, the United States has pinpointed the whereabouts of Mr. Janjalani "within a few square miles," and passed the information to the Philippine Army, a Western official said.

Either for a lack of will or means, the Philippine Army did not move to capture him, the diplomat said.



Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top
 
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how do you think this fits in with your 'demands', neasco?

no need to answer, i'm really just trying to provide you with some food for thought, and hopefully get you to realize that things aren't as simple, or as easy, as you seem to think they are
 

mkirda

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vitz":75um6um4 said:
how do you think this fits in with your 'demands', neasco?

no need to answer, i'm really just trying to provide you with some food for thought, and hopefully get you to realize that things aren't as simple, or as easy, as you seem to think they are

And this is where MAC wants to train too...
 
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naesco":2er558f8 said:


:?:

8O

:roll:

:eek:

don't tell me i've finally got ya speechless :P

are you beginning to see what a complex environment you're dealing with? that above posted article represents just a teeny weeny part of some of one side of the issues involved :wink:

next week you'll get a lesson in some of the complexity of international trade economics, and how it can influence laws and legislation, but just a teeny weeny bit :wink:
 

mkirda

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vitz":287blz59 said:
next week you'll get a lesson in some of the complexity of international trade economics, and how it can influence laws and legislation, but just a teeny weeny bit :wink:

For a preview, just Google news articles from 2002-2004 on Bush and US Steel Tariffs. Follow it up with searchs on WTO and GATT on same subject.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 
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mkirda":372st1m4 said:
vitz":372st1m4 said:
how do you think this fits in with your 'demands', neasco?

no need to answer, i'm really just trying to provide you with some food for thought, and hopefully get you to realize that things aren't as simple, or as easy, as you seem to think they are

And this is where MAC wants to train too...

i'm not sure that wanting to train there was/is a bad, or impossible undertaking

mac's mistake, imo, was deciding to do so at the complete lack of laying the proper groundwork/study/thought beforehand, and completely ignoring those who had the insight/knowledge to help them to do it right and properly, or advise it as being a bad 1st step from the get go


'mac's way or the highway' :P
 
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should be no problem goin' there and prosecuting folks, eh? :wink:

college students will probably demonstrate and demand the law breakers be sent to gaol immediately, as well :lol:
 
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Tawi-Tawi - One of the last places where blueface angels are in abundance, according to some of my sources.

In the Philippines :wink: , or the world?
 

Caterham

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It is as quiet in here as it was on the 18th green when Phil Mickelson was lining up that putt to win the Masters. It is actually quite refreshing to not have to listen to someone who knows NOTHING about this industry run their mouth, spewing propaganda.

All I can say is:

Thank you Vitz!
 
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i'm not sure that wanting to train there was/is a bad, or impossible undertaking

I'm sure, no wait positive, that its a bad idea to train 600 non divers to collect MO in a country that has approx. 5000 all ready and the degraded reefs to prove it. PI doesn't NEED anymore divers Vitz, they need the current ones to be net catchers and trained properly. There is no shortage of divers in PI, none.
 
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GreshamH":1frr6qck said:
i'm not sure that wanting to train there was/is a bad, or impossible undertaking

I'm sure, no wait positive, that its a bad idea to train 600 non divers to collect MO in a country that has approx. 5000 all ready and the degraded reefs to prove it. PI doesn't NEED anymore divers Vitz, they need the current ones to be net catchers and trained properly. There is no shortage of divers in PI, none.

by train i meant proper net training- i wasn't referring to training new divers specifically :)
 

clarionreef

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Vitz,
First and foremost. In order to train anyone, you have to know at least more then the trainees about the subject matter.
MAC has no one remotely qualified to train divers in Mindinao...or elsewhere.
They are living off the residuals of trainers before them and not increasing the quantity of genuinely trained fisherman. They are not fish collectors...not commercially competent and not conversant in the subject matter except when reading it from information generated by others.
This charade fools only newbies, service guys and million dollar funders. No one else.
Steve
 
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vitz":70n6kej8 said:
GreshamH":70n6kej8 said:
i'm not sure that wanting to train there was/is a bad, or impossible undertaking

I'm sure, no wait positive, that its a bad idea to train 600 non divers to collect MO in a country that has approx. 5000 all ready and the degraded reefs to prove it. PI doesn't NEED anymore divers Vitz, they need the current ones to be net catchers and trained properly. There is no shortage of divers in PI, none.

by train i meant proper net training- i wasn't referring to training new divers specifically :)

But thats exactly what MAC wants to do (to get USAID funds) Vitz, train 600 rebel returnies in Mindinao whom never have collected MO in they're life. They still have gun powder under their nails!
 

clarionreef

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Amazing it was to put up the CIA training in the quarterly report as if its gonna happen!
I was there at the genesis of this nonsense and told their guy [MACs point man in P.I.] that it was a bad idea.
It was before approval of the latest 800K grant and the money would be quick he said.
It was all about money...make no mistake.
Increasing the load on the resource by ADDING divers instead of converting divers was sheer idiocy as pointed out so well by Blue Hula a few months ago.
I told her that they don't know how to train anyway where there are not pre-existing divers already trained, so there will be no new 600 divers brought into the arena.
Anyway...I hope no one gets hurt down there. They haven't a clue how to do this right..
Steve
 

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