Suggestions and ideas.

[Anonymous]

(Otherwise known as a sticky with a different flavor.)

More important than getting a MAC representative to re-participate in here, is getting new participants in general. Not that I don't like you guys, but the more perspectives we have bouncing off the walls in here the better. Particularly, I'd like to see more participation from other retailers. We have three in Georgia, one in Kentucky, and one in Pennsylvania. Surely we can get a broader group of people to participate. Other wholesalers are welcome as well (Eric and Rob ).

Keep in mind that this forum isn't simply about the latest MAC failure, but covers the enitre Industry Behind the Hobby. Other topics and questions are certainly welcome. I know I'm always interested in how other retailers do things in their stores, and we should be able to discuss things without giving away any trade secrets. I am always interested in how things work on the wholesale end and hopefully this forum can shed some light on that as well (as it has already). Even if MAC pulls off a miracle and completely cleans up the supply, there is still much work to do on the retail end as far as handling, feeding and medicating. Up till now most retailers have been forced to learn by trial and error, as I haven't seen very many books directed at the LFS guy, like the ones we reccommend to our customers. Learning from the experience and guidance of others is the best way to grow and improve. It's not right to always have to have a bad guy around to compare ourselves to in order to make ourselves look good. The bad shops are what is putting the blight on the Industry. Our goal as retailers (who claim to be working for Industry reform) should be to clean up as many stores as we can. Competing on knowledge and sustomer service is where it's at, and where it always will be.


Or we can just keep lobbing the same grungy, sloppy spitball back and forth.....


We are making some plans to pass out some information about the board and the forum at the next APPMA show. If any one has any ideas on how to increase participation among retailers, please pipe in!

 

[dizzy]

We are making some plans to pass out some information about the board and the forum at the next APPMA show. If any one has any ideas on how to increase participation among retailers, please pipe in!

How about if you take the e-tailer adds off the Industry Forum. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather not see them here. I realize that their advertising dollars pay the bills, but why can't it be on the other forums and not this one. If you guys showed us that courtesy it might increase dealer participation. I often feel like reefs.org does a lot to help and promote e-tailing, and little or nothing to help Brick and Motars.
Mitch

 

[dizzy]

Glenn,
You might think about writting up a press release, or an advertisement, and running it in a publication that goes out to a lot of stores. I think Pet Product News would give you a lot of bang for your buck.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Rover..
We're here! I don't own a brick and mortar yet, but I'm in the process.
And I'm going to pretend that the topic, is what it says it is.

That being said, one thing I think would be nice to see, is a list of who's who and what's what. Whom belongs to what group, type of thing. Also what each group wants in the way of reform (short version).

I have my own ideas on certification reform. I might even get myself to post a topic about it. I've also lived in PI for four years, so I understand the Filipino way of life.

You guys (no offense ladies) loose us. With all the abv's. and everything else going back and forth, you pretty much scare us off. I would love to participate, but feel unqualified and uneducated enough to comment on any topic other than this one.


Now on to your real topic. Advertising in the major trade mags would probably help. Not only would you hit retailers, you'd also hit other hobbiests.

Back to lurking in this forum mode:

 

[Kalkbreath]

Is there an ad for Reefs.org in FAMA? Who is authorize to give permission to allow a third party {like me} to place a reference to Reefs.org within an advertisement in FAMA? I know someone placing full page ads in the magazine. If permission is granted . ........I can include a three by five banner within the ad........?

 

[Anonymous]

How about if you take the e-tailer adds off the Industry Forum. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather not see them here. I realize that their advertising dollars pay the bills, but why can't it be on the other forums and not this one. If you guys showed us that courtesy it might increase dealer participation. I often feel like reefs.org does a lot to help and promote e-tailing, and little or nothing to help Brick and Motars.
Mitch

If I were in your position I would likely feel the same way (though, I have no idea whether or not you've included internet advertising in your arsenal). What if the advertising were limited to those who have a storefront (as per Mitch's suggestion otherwise)? This would mean that there would be advertising in all forums, without the "slap" of allowing advertising by those who are exclusively e-tailers.

I would like to point out that, in my opinion/observations, it is far more often individual posters who denegrate storefront shops that give this "feeling" of preference to e-tailer. I haven't perceived a preference for one type of advertising/seller over another here. Instead, I perceive a general distaste among some vocal posters regarding using storefront shops (including their advice) as opposed to e-tailers. It is not at all infrequently that I see folks posting statements along the lines of, "Don't ever take advice from/listen to anything a local shop has to say!" (I've seen posts that are much more emphatic and disparaging than this, consider it paraphrasing resultant of many such posts.)

While we can't exactly tell these folks they can say nothing along those lines, I've made it a point to let them know that hobbyists found success prior to the world wide web from the information gleaned by frequenting their (best) LFS. I fail to understand how and why it is that they believe an e-tailer would or should have better knowledge than the shop-owner, quite puzzling indeed.

But that's just my take on it.

 

[JennM]

I've seen the tide turned both ways, retail vs. etail vs. retail. In some cases I've seen the preference turn right back to the retailer, esp. where livestock is concerned. I don't begrudge a few (read: there are VERY FEW) individuals saving money on dry goods or big ticket specialty items... in the big retail picture, in my experience most hobbyists still go to a bricks and mortar store to buy.

I've seen both stores AND .coms come and go... the good ones keep on going and the bad ones either go out of business (bad could be bad management, or just not a quality place... take your pick) OR they get gobbled up by the big places. We've seen at least one big .com eat up some smaller ones... IMO that doesn't necessarily make them better but it does make them bigger :lol:

Etail does not worry me. I know my customers' names, their tanks, their kids... no etailer can do all that AND provide a weekend hangout

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

any brick and mortar that doesn't at least supplement their business w/ etail is gonna have a hard time surviving, in the 'social darwinism' of the business world, methinks.

refusing to do etail on principle is just dumb, imo, no matter how successful the b&m biz may be

having said that....

i do have a huge problem w/any selling of livestock via the net-mainly for the reason of buying a 'cat in a sack'

 

[JennM]

Hmmm I think I disagree, vitz.

To compete in etail, one has to sell for little margin. To sell at retail, one has to sell at a "typical" margin.

Can't have it both ways... sell it online for cheap?

Why would anyone come into the store?

MOST hobbyists still buy in person. Most hobbyists develop a rapport with their store(s). Dot coms come and go. Dot coms can't test your water or babysit your tank while you are on vacation. Dot coms won't hold a fish while you visit it every day for a week, "just to make sure".

I've sent a few things in the mail to people who couldn't get them locally (at my regular retail price, plus shipping) but I can count the number of times on one hand.

My local customers are my bread and butter. I don't see a need to take any of myself away from them, to give to online/etail.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I also think it not exactly accurate to equate the typical BB browser with the typical hobbyist, and certainly not thr typical "customer". A lot of stores are in the business of getting the hobbyist started at the most basic level. Since an etailer can't spend 15 minutes with every customer walking them through their first water change, testing their water and then explaining what to do about the results, and since the customer doesn't even know what products they do or don't need, the low low prices of etail don't do them any good. It's like ordering food from a french menu. It's the stores that take advantage of this and sell all the newbies everything under the sun for a quick buck that drive their customers to etail.

 

[JennM]

Je veux prendre une grande poutine, s'il vous plait!

(French Menu)...

MMMM poutine... I miss comfort foods from home sometimes.... but I digress...

You're right, Glenn. I'd even venture to say that I've NEVER heard a customer cite his beginnings in the hobby as having seen such a great e-tail website... most often they've either had a friend/relative in the hobby, OR they walked into (drumroll please...) a LFS and saw a display that set the wheels in motion.

Sure, there is a place for etail in the big scheme of things (for hard goods anyway) but the vast majority of hobbyists still hit the bricks and mortar for their needs.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

i know (personally) 3 lfs's that expanded to etail
one will fedex same day to your door, drygoods, or livestock

none of those businesses suffered from the change-in fact, the bigger piece of the retail pie they each now have, will most certainly affect anyone elses ability to open up competition in their area

the point i'm trying to make is that expanding to etail seems to me to be the next natural evolution of all business, and anyone who doesn't follow suit, will eventually be left by the wayside, via social darwinism

not tomorrow, but eventually :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

etail doesn't always have to be low margin, either-some people don't mind paying for the convenience
:wink: