Improving the survival rates of transported fish.

[Kalkbreath]

Do you really think that islanders are going to be able to supply themselves with three types of bags, two bottles of buffer and Amquel .........when they cant even get a net in some cases? There is little chance they would use them even if they did obtain the bags. The bags tear far too easy and during the rough transport and leak. If you think the buses and taxies are going to allow leaks .......then you also think that the airlines wont mind as well.........but your wrong. I am beginning to think this is some sort of scheme to end the hobby. You all continually ignore the issue of leaks and that breathing bags cant breath in a water tight box. Is it that you all want the airlines to ban wet cargo? Mandating breath bags "TO SAVE THE LITTLE FISHIES" would also force the airlines to ban fish cargo because of the breath bags. being that every box would leak into the cargo hull of the airplane You anti hobbyists are pretty sneaky!

 

[PeterIMA]

Mike, As far as I know they generally have oxygen cylinders in the village that they use to pack MO fish in plastic bags. I witnessed the collectors packing their fish at 2AM (when it was cooler) and getting on a bus about 5-6AM to bring fish to Reg and Rix in Manila during 1986.

During 1999 I visited Davao in Southern Mindano and observed the collectors being trained by IMA from the Napoleon (75 foot vessel with outriggers equipped with hookah apparatus). I visited a holding facility run by the Badjoan Collectors Association in Sta. Cruz. I also visited the village of San Vincente on Olango Island where IMA was training collectors.
I witnessed fish being held in a shed in inflated plastic bags in Cebu City. The temperature in the shed was over 85 degrees Fahrenheit.

So, I have some idea of how fish are collected and held. But, we can all learn more.

I am sure some fish are shipped to Manila in Jeepneys or vans. I accompanied the collectors on a bus from Bolinao to Manila. It was 85 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit. They really do bring the chickens on the bus (sometimes pigs also).

Ferdinand and I plan to do a study to compare shipping methods and the economics from the villages through to importers in other countries. More on this later.

Peter

 

[mkirda]

Do you really think that islanders are going to be able to supply themselves with three types of bags, two bottles of buffer and Amquel .........when they cant even get a net in some cases? There is little chance they would use them even if they did obtain the bags. The bags tear far too easy and during the rough transport and leak. If you think the buses and taxies are going to allow leaks .......then you also think that the airlines wont mind as well.........but your wrong. I am beginning to think this is some sort of scheme to end the hobby. You all continually ignore the issue of leaks and that breathing bags cant breath in a water tight box. Is it that you all want the airlines to ban wet cargo? Mandating breath bags "TO SAVE THE LITTLE FISHIES" would also force the airlines to ban fish cargo because of the breath bags. being that every box would leak into the cargo hull of the airplane You anti hobbyists are pretty sneaky!

Cripes, Kalk. I thought you were done responding in this thread.

More lies, I guess...

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MANDATING ANYTHING?

I was trying to have a civilized discussion with people who are reasonable, and who have the ability to affect change for the better. Are you trying to derail that as well?

I have specifically said that I was concerned with shipping from VILLAGE TO MANILA. I made it a point that these things should be provided and analyzed, and that a cost-benefit analysis be made. NO ONE was mandating a thing. NO ONE was being SNEAKY. EVERYTHING was very much in the open. Now, about that promise...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

The temperature in the shed was over 85 degrees centrigrade.

85 degrees F, I think you meant, Peter. 85C is pretty darn hot...

 

[Kalkbreath]

Do you really think that islanders are going to be able to supply themselves with three types of bags, two bottles of buffer and Amquel .........when they cant even get a net in some cases? There is little chance they would use them even if they did obtain the bags. The bags tear far too easy and during the rough transport and leak. If you think the buses and taxies are going to allow leaks .......then you also think that the airlines wont mind as well.........but your wrong. I am beginning to think this is some sort of scheme to end the hobby. You all continually ignore the issue of leaks and that breathing bags cant breath in a water tight box. Is it that you all want the airlines to ban wet cargo? Mandating breath bags "TO SAVE THE LITTLE FISHIES" would also force the airlines to ban fish cargo because of the breath bags. being that every box would leak into the cargo hull of the airplane You anti hobbyists are pretty sneaky!

Cripes, Kalk. I thought you were done responding in this thread.

More lies, I guess...

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT MANDATING ANYTHING?

I was trying to have a civilized discussion with people who are reasonable, and who have the ability to affect change for the better. Are you trying to derail that as well?

I have specifically said that I was concerned with shipping from VILLAGE TO MANILA. I made it a point that these things should be provided and analyzed, and that a cost-benefit analysis be made. NO ONE was mandating a thing. NO ONE was being SNEAKY. EVERYTHING was very much in the open. Now, about that promise...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Actually, Mandate was mentioned quite early in this thread. :wink:

 

[mkirda]

Actually, Mandate was mentioned quite early in this thread. :wink:

"Mandate" was not used until page 7. In fact, the first person to suggest that the bags be made mandatory was you, Kalk. Not a single other person in this thread has made the suggestion that breathing bags be made mandatory.

Stating that Kordon would have a monopoly <> mandating breathing bags.

 

[mkirda]

Ferdinand and I plan to do a study to compare shipping methods and the economics from the villages through to importers in othe countries. More on this later.

Peter

I'd love to hear more when it comes to fruition.
Hopefully that thread won't get highjacked too...

Getting the chemicals to mix the buffer, and shipping over a few bottles of Amquel can't be that expensive. The materials are cheap, and the shipping isn't that much either. The more difficult thing doing the packing and marking so that fish data collection isn't that difficult. The data collection and analysis will be the most difficult part, I think.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[PeterIMA]

Mike, I corrected my posting from degree centrigrade to degree Fahrenheit. Thanks for catching that.

I agree that the cost of the chemicals is low. In 1999 and again in 2000, I purchased chemicals and provided them to AMRI as part of a study using breathing bags. I purchased 1 kilogram of Amquel and 1 kilogram of nitrofurazone (each for about $80/kg). About one teaspoon (10 grams) of each chemical was sufficient for 80 gallons of shipping water (the volume of one garbage pail). So, you are right the chemicals are not expensive and go a long way. The breathing bags are more expensive than the regular bags (they ranged from 9 cents each up to 17 cents per bag for the largest of the 3 sizes).

I am not clear what you intended to say "The more difficult thing (is) doing the packing and marking so that fish collectioni isn't that difficult". Please clarify this statement.

Thanks,
Peter

 

[mkirda]

Please clarify this statement.

I was just thinking more of the drudgery of experimental design and record keeping than anything. Hard to tell the difference between a damsel in water with Amquel vs. a damsel in water without Amquel... Keeping them separate and distinct will be more difficult (IMO) than getting the chemicals and bags to the Philippines.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Terry B]

My article is awaiting publication in Advanced Aquarist Online magazine. I don't know if it will be in the April issue or not, because the editor has not told me.
Terry B