Certifying agencies

[Anonymous]

Are there any other agencies or organizations out there who provide for a professional certification process besides MAC? - If so, what are they?

Please and thanks. :wink:

 

[clarionreef]

Grateful,
Shouldn't there be a bonafide product and diver/collector training to achieve it first?
Then certification schemes would have something to certify.
You know, like learning to dive BEFORE you get your C -card?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately the dive industry for the most part doesn't seem to suffer the cranial-rectal inversion that the marine ornamentals industry does, so sorry Steve, I don't care to debate the validity of the certification process, that's for those in the industry to sort out.. (I'm just a hobbyist trying to utilize my talents/abilities to help out other hobbyists and maybe assist new vendors and manufacturers along the way too.)

Personally, if it were me I think I would bite the bullet and band together and approach Big Brother for assistance if a monster were threatening to jam a cowpie down my throat, but that's just me I guess.

And that in no way is meant to infer that I agree this supposed 'monster' is in fact shoving any cowpies..

I knew I should have made a disclaimer about not wanting to debate this debacle... :?



So umm...... - I take it that's a "no"??

 

[clarionreef]

Hey,
But you just added something to he lexican...'C.R.I'.
We are in debt to you for that as it hits the nail on the head.

21 years ago the Environmental Center of the Philippines printed a certification used to validate shipments of fish from the Philippines.
The director then also set up a side business for shipping his own fish... and only he could get a certificate!
I guess he was the fore-runner of forging fraudulent fishwrap to market with. But hey...at least he sponsored training, provided netting and created fish supply first.

So you're right...there is no other. All the funding and attention went to the 'flavor of the month', MAC in recent years.
They still have it and will generate more fish wrap in months and years to come.
Wheres the beef? Ain't none. Only real dealers in fish ask impudent questions like that.
Steve
PS. The industry is not 'sorting it out.'

 

[mkirda]

So umm...... - I take it that's a "no"??

Grateful,

As far as I am aware, the answer is 'no'.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

Hey,
But you just added something to he lexican...'C.R.I'.
We are in debt to you for that as it hits the nail on the head.

:lol:
Apparently that's what I'm here for - when I'm not fitting my other bill anyway...

PS. The industry is not 'sorting it out.'

Oh-ho-ho, so the problem IS double-edged then eh?


GD: Shoving foot in mouth for the entertainment of the industry since Nov '02. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Alright, so I got the answer I was looking for... - No. :?

I guess now I'm curious WHY... WHY aren't there any other agencies at least developing a professional certification process?

I mean really... - In the computer industry there are any number of professional certifications that a tech or even an entire shop can get. All of which tell the consumer that this guy (or his business) has dedicated a portion of their time to giving me a level of assurance that they are at least moderately competent in the products they have certifications in. (If you needed a computer network based on Linux or Novell you wouldn't go to a shop that only carried Microsoft certifications.. - Though you'd probably be a little safer the other way around, but I digress...)

So why does the term "certification" have to instantly imply that the store somehow claims to only carry net-caught fish? Why not have certifications that show that this shop or that has dedicated itself enough to show proficiency in "Stony Corals", or "Soft Corals" or "Marine Invertebrates" or "Marine Fish" or (gasp!) just everyday business practices??

Seems to me it would probably go a long way to helping knock down the stereotypes that many LFS's are only full of dumb-assed employees that are just barely above the IQ requirement for the McDonalds drive-thru if all the employees of a certified shop were required to obtain/display certifications of proficiency in the animals they will invariably dispense advice about eh?

 

[JennM]

So why does the term "certification" have to instantly imply that the store somehow claims to only carry net-caught fish? Why not have certifications that show that this shop or that has dedicated itself enough to show proficiency in "Stony Corals", or "Soft Corals" or "Marine Invertebrates" or "Marine Fish" or (gasp!) just everyday business practices??

Seems to me it would probably go a long way to helping knock down the stereotypes that many LFS's are only full of dumb-assed employees that are just barely above the IQ requirement for the McDonalds drive-thru if all the employees of a certified shop were required to obtain/display certifications of proficiency in the animals they will invariably dispense advice about eh?

PIJAC (Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council) has *some* certifications for pet stores, I recently took their freshwater course at a trade show. I still have to write the test and complete the home study module... they aren't doing a saltwater certification, YET... but when they do I'll probably take that too. Frank Greco hosted the seminar I attended and it was very informative. It was surprising how many in attendance did not know some of the very basics -- so I can see where that LFS stereotype comes into play - we're always branded with the lowest common denominator. There were plenty there also, who knew as much or more than the presentor - a good exchange of information took place.

I took the freshwater course because I'm adding that to our offerings at the shop. The seminar I attended covered water chemistry, and disease idenfication and treatment. The home module will cover species identification etc., and that will be the most challenging to me since I've been out of the freshwater loop for a while.

They also have certifications for Avian, Canine, and Feline "specialists". While the title may be a bit overstated, I think it's a good thing that people working in the pet trade can receive some education and in return get a "certificate" for passing the test.

For example, if/when I complete my freshwater module, I'll be "CFFS" ... PIJAC Certified Freshwater Fish Specialist :roll:

It does not certify the organisms I sell but it does make a statement that I have undertaken to learn a little something about what I'm selling.

Their marine module is still under development, but is that something along the lines of what you were looking for?

I'm not holding out hope for a bone fide certified fish supply, but if perhaps more retailers or others in the trade were more educated, the demand for quality and sustainability would permeate other aspects of the chain of custody. At the very least it can't hurt.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Are there any other agencies or organizations out there who provide for a professional certification process besides MAC? - If so, what are they?

Please and thanks. :wink:

from the mac website:

To ensure that the MAC Certification scheme is credible and internationally acceptable, MAC itself does not verify compliance with its own standards itself. Instead, it will accredit independent third-party certification companies, which in turn will assess industry participants to evaluate their compliance to the MAC Standards

mac explicitly states that they do NOT certify anything, but rather deal only w/the drafting of the certification standards

i would assume the certifying companies are the ones listed on their site

it would be interesting to know which of those companies certified which of the mac certified companies to date-especially seeing as how one certifiers' published standards seems to conflict w/macs holding practice standards

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Jenn, yes, thats what I was looking for.

The reason I asked the question originally is that I was considering adding any held certifications as an option to display in the database I'm developing.

And I guess I can see where you might roll your eyes at the CFFS. - In an area where you're exposed to your peers and all. - For me, I jokingly roll my eyes at my little CNA (Certified Novell Administrator) certification among my peers, but to those not in the biz, it shows at least a basic level of competency and that has serious value.

Anyway... - I think the more serious and professional retailers out there should seek out these types of certifications. For hobbyists like me (who turned my computer hobby into a profession...) I feel it shows a lot...

If you happen to remember it, when you get your CFFS please PM/email me, I would like to add it to the info I will have for your store in my database.

Thanks,
Norm

 

[Anonymous]

Are there any other agencies or organizations out there who provide for a professional certification process besides MAC? - If so, what are they?

Please and thanks. :wink:

from the mac website:

To ensure that the MAC Certification scheme is credible and internationally acceptable, MAC itself does not verify compliance with its own standards itself. Instead, it will accredit independent third-party certification companies, which in turn will assess industry participants to evaluate their compliance to the MAC Standards

mac explicitly states that they do NOT certify anything, but rather deal only w/the drafting of the certification standards

i would assume the certifying companies are the ones listed on their site

it would be interesting to know which of those companies certified which of the mac certified companies to date-especially seeing as how one certifiers' published standards seems to conflict w/macs holding practice standards

Ehhhrrm,

Maybe I'm confused, but from what I gather, MAC is only saying they don't handle compliance / testing for certification themselves and instead offer it through an independant 3rd party.

Which is completely understandable and seems only proper to me. I mean, the same CNA certification I referred to in my post above was obtained at New Horizons Computer Learning Center right in your very own Grand Rapids through Prometrics testing, which is one of Novells two 3rd parties...... ( http://www.novell.com/training/testinfo ... ation.html )

If an organization just doled out their own certifications ON their own it would be no different than the "Environmental Center of the Philippines" instance Steve cited previously right??

...

So.... do you have an issue with my choice of words ("Are there any other agencies or organizations out there who provide for a professional certification process besides MAC?") or with MAC's 3rd party?

 

[Anonymous]

GratefulDiver wrote:

So.... do you have an issue with my choice of words ("Are there any other agencies or organizations out there who provide for a professional certification process besides MAC?") or with MAC's 3rd party?

vitz wrote:

To ensure that the MAC Certification scheme is credible and internationally acceptable, MAC itself does not verify compliance with its own standards itself. Instead, it will accredit independent third-party certification companies, which in turn will assess industry participants to evaluate their compliance to the MAC Standards

once again, you seem to think that mac has something to do w/the actual certification process,something the mac explicitly states it doesn't.


here is the list of the actual certifiers:

http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/subpage. ... section=11

 

[dizzy]

GD,
Actually AMDA did develop and administer a skills assessment test a few years back. An employee and myself were two of the very first to take and pass the test. While some of the questions are getting a bit dated, it is still a useful tool for any retailer wishing to test their knowledge level. I guess a list of who took it and passed it is around somewhere. Ask Steve and I'm sure he can get it for you to use. AMDA was trying to do more when along came MAC and basically asked us decease our efforts and follow them. This had the effect of dividing AMDA and the organization as struggled since. Perhaps a new direction will reunite the lost flock.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

GratefulDiver wrote:

So.... do you have an issue with my choice of words ("Are there any other agencies or organizations out there who provide for a professional certification process besides MAC?") or with MAC's 3rd party?

vitz wrote:

To ensure that the MAC Certification scheme is credible and internationally acceptable, MAC itself does not verify compliance with its own standards itself. Instead, it will accredit independent third-party certification companies, which in turn will assess industry participants to evaluate their compliance to the MAC Standards

once again, you seem to think that mac has something to do w/the actual certification process,something the mac explicitly states it doesn't.


here is the list of the actual certifiers:

http://www.aquariumcouncil.org/subpage. ... section=11

Ok then... - So by your re-quoting and bolding I'll take that as you either have an issue with my choice of words or are trying to ellicit some sort of cryptic yet oddly ostrich-like twist on MAC certification by sticking your head in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist.

Great, thanks for umm... enlightening me..?? :?

 

[Anonymous]

AMDA was trying to do more when along came MAC and basically asked us decease our efforts and follow them. This had the effect of dividing AMDA and the organization as struggled since.

Now see, theres some good info. Unfortunately its background info right now, but definitely appreciated just as much as the info Jenn passed on. (Also explains a LOT that I didn't know before I started opening my big mouth here a short time back....)

Personally, my (totally uneducated) opinion is that AMDA should never have backed off from what they started. MAC must be at least a "sort-of" competitor or they never would have asked such a thing. - At least, thats how I would think of it if someone were to ask me to stop building my database for example. (Not that I'm even building it in any sort of for-profit model, but still...)

When MAC asked that, did they ask that existing data and resources be directed their way in order to further extend the program (and in turn provide funding to help further what was started) or did they just ask that it be dropped altogether?

Thanks again,
Norm