MAC's random testing status ???

[Ad van Tage]

In a different thread

MAC Certified fish do not come from unknown sources, nor are they collected by unknown methods. MAC will be facilitating the random cyanide testing of MAC Certified fish. The MAC has no control over (nor can it speak for) any animals that are not MAC Certified. Keep in mind that MAC Standards do not force any point in the chain of custody to handle strictly MAC Certified fish. But MAC Certified animals must always be segregated from any others.

The combination of the random CDT and full traceability to the collector will be an important tool for control of MAC Certified animals.

In the above statement by John_Brandt of the RDO Taskforce, who signed off as

John Brandt
MASNA (USCRTF/MAC/Legislation Liaison)
MAC (Board of Directors)
CMAS-Chicago (Vice President)

we read: MAC will be facilitating the random cyanide testing of MAC Certified fish. That was written last May [2003].


Now my questions are:
a) what precisely is ment by "facilitating"?
b) what is the status of MAC facilitated random testing.

And finally:
given that there are some certified collectors;
given there are some certified exporters;
given there are some certified importers;
given there are some certified retailers...

c) have there been any fish / fishies that have been randomly tested at any one of these certified points?

And if so:
d) how many fish were tested? And at how many points?
e) where would one be able to see the results of such tests?

:idea: I for one would be happy to read about success-stories in this particular chain-of-custody scenario. :idea:


As always,

Ad van Tage
_______________
~ aka Ecoworrier ~

PS Or should one ask: are there any "MAC Certified" fish available "at the end of the line".
I have made inquiries in a large Canadian City = over 1 million inhabitants, not counting Nemos = but have failed to trace any "Mac Certified" fish / fishies...
I could share some of the less than amusing answers I received ... Perhaps later :?:

 

[mkirda]

Ad,

You are not going to get an answer to any of those questions here.

Your best bet: E-mail David V. your question. See what response you get, if any. Unless you happen to have a contact within BFAR you can ask directly...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Ad,
The answers you seek must be stonewalled and not direcrly answered.
The concept has not been implemented and has indeed lost ground since we were told...and told again to back off and give it a chance.
To me that was silly advice because the team sent out to deliver the goods has not, cannot, will not and is now idle.
Team leader Lino, was recently back in the hospital for almost dying...trying. The stress hes under from the MAC admin/office people who drive him will be the end of him and his asmatic condition will not improve. I have known this for a long time. I have told this forum many times that this dog will not hunt. Will not and never will.
This "Waiting for Godot" [ a play about putting blind faith over reason] as it were is a fools game that only salaried people not pegged to performance can entertain. The working class among us must work and produce for a living. As such, it is relatively simple for us to recognize when non working class, non field types try to 'fake it' trying to do our jobs.
Explaining this usually falls on deaf ears to all but divers, collectors and real field people who never had the luxury to pretend to be effective.
Some people it appears want to be fooled. Funders and MAC wanted to believe that by borrowing someone elses gameplan that they to could run it...w/ no historical or demonstrable capability.
Paul....you will drive Lino into the ground with your incessant demands to certify, certify something...anything! He will not give in and will not admit it...but you will kill him like this and not see the promised land anyway.
You will get no fish supply this way and your loyal certified dealers will lose patience as some have already.
Produce or pass on, publish or perish, fish or cut bait... but don't tell me to wait...because I already know...that we're waiting for the next delay and excuse only. We're waiting for Godot...
Steve
PS. Commercial fishery training is not so simple as you thought now is it?. But you will not admit it and so the project marshalls on.

 

[Ad van Tage]

... You are not going to get an answer to any of those questions here.

Your best bet: E-mail David V. your question. See what response you get, if any. Unless you happen to have a contact within BFAR you can ask directly...

Thanx Mike, working on that***.
BUT I had hoped that someone here is in good enough books with John_Brandt who continues to attach his personal "certification" to his "credentials".
{ MAC (Board of Directors) } AND is still posting on various other RDO fora. { thanx Horge! :wink: }

Surely that alone should entitle the members on this particular RDO forum to some reasobale answers. Or should some of us visit some of the other forums,
where questions about how many fish/fishies have been "tested" or certified could be asked as the member of the BOD of the MAC is still "advertising" there?

Any volunteers? Or good buddies of J_B who are willing to try?

_________________
~ Ad aka Ecoworrier ~

*** Have I mentioned that previous attempts to obtain answers from the MAC HQ have not met with 100% success? Do I understand that David V. is D. Vossler?

 

[Ad van Tage]

............
The concept has not been implemented and has indeed lost ground since we were told....................

.

Steve , what am I missing here?
IF none of this random testing is implemented,
HOW CAN THERE BE CERTIFIED FISH anywhere???

And what of the good folks who were certified early on in the process?
Are they getting their money's worth? Have any asked for a refund?


Shucks, here I am trying to find out what an importer must do to get
"MAC Certified" - as J_B would "define" that - ...

I would call it "certified by (the) MAC" ;
no CAPS please... :roll: :roll:

 

[mkirda]

Surely that alone should entitle the members on this particular RDO forum to some reasobale answers. Or should some of us visit some of the other forums,
where questions about how many fish/fishies have been "tested" or certified could be asked as the member of the BOD of the MAC is still "advertising" there?

Any volunteers? Or good buddies of J_B who are willing to try?

Ad,

I tried to get John to come back, only to be publicly chastised for it.
I know John saw the reaction- he mentioned it at our last club meeting.
I did push him to answer Jessica's questions about the MPA at Batasan- Of all the questions people have asked in this forum, her's were the ones that have stuck in my mind as most deserving of answers.
Now, whether or not he will answer is up to him.
If so, it will probably not be publicly on this forum.

Why would you expect a dog you have repeatedly kicked to come eagerly to your call? {rhetorical question - I don't want an answer from you specifically, Ad...}

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

*** Have I mentioned that previous attempts to obtain answers from the MAC HQ have not met with 100% success? Do I understand that David V. is D. Vossler?

Sorry, missed this before...

Have I mentioned that you and I are in the same boat here?

And, yes, they are one and the same.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Ad,
I get from [and this Monday] to be specific a certified exporter in Manila.
This dealer has zero certified fish in stock because there are zero to none in the pipeline for her to buy.

Where else do you think my 'attitude' comes from?
This is a 'chat' forum... but for people focused on supply every, single week the 'chat' is often for amusement.

Certification is a concept and a notion. There are times it has a few token fish of a few species to "back it up". Usually there is nothing.
I buy from this dealer because she buys from people I trained many years ago in the use of nets. I also send her nets. Its routine business.... Much more honest and efficient then the year end and year out MAC mind game about top down market incentives to affect fishing practices in a thousand villages.
Talk, talk, talk....but meanwhile, normal fisherman and dealers have to eat.
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

Mike,
While I agree that Jessicas questions were most deserving of answers....I think that in the last year some of the 100 or so questions you yourself asked were also deserving of answers.

Now...we are led to believe that the manner and tone in which they are presented has resulted in the lack of answers?

If all this were more relevant to people this sort of excuse would never wash. Hobbyists still get their 'reef stuff' from the locals LFS or e-tailer, LFS's get their stuff from a fax machine generated report out of NY, Miami, Chicago or LA...
Importers however must actively engage the exporters in question and it is there where the subsidy of alleged anomalies is most directly supported. Importers however see little to gain from encouraging the expose of still more of their secrets and sources and are therefore lost to forums such as this.

When MAC dropped the USL and ther 1% DOA perfection standards, importers no longer saw anything to lose and went back to sleep.

They don't care one way or another what MAC does or what is said here. They're busy selling fish, any fish. If they must join in and become certified fine, but it will not be out of belief but out of ;
1]' Couldn't hurt.' A get out of jail free card is nice to have.
2] Better PR [ and sales] for the 1-2% of the retail base that cares enough to ask a question or two.

Questions for MAC and their assorted spokesman ...?[except when they get in trouble, then they are not MAC}
SUCH A THING ASSUMES THEY HAVE THE ANSWERS...BUT CHOOSE NOT TO WASTE THEM ON THE UNCONVERTED!

It is best tactically to remain quiet when in the company of people who know more than you do...and whos livlihood you pretend to speak for.
MACs amatuer status has been revealed and verified. They'd best save it for the Nemo crowd.
Steve

 

[horge]

Susmaryosep. Iyan na naman ba'ng issue ngayon?
Don't you people have a direct line to BFAR yet?

If it would help,
I'll TRY to visit BFAR tomorrow (Monday for me).
I'll talk to both the people in charge, and to the lab staff (again),
and determine what they're doing towards MO testing
...and what they're doing in connexion with MAC.

To what end my exposure, though? What does it serve?
Merely the idle curiosity of a peanut gallery?
Frankly, I don't think it'll satisfy anyone... just like last time.

Some people want to know; Some people want to punish;
Maybe a few have real contributons to invest the information into.
(shrug)


h