coral business

[lclau]

What would you guys say would be the minimum size for starting a holding system for corals for sale?

 

[Anonymous]

heh

Welcome to RDO!

I'm going to guess you're gonna need to give a little more info than the huge generalization that leaves open...

 

[lclau]

yeah, thanks for the welcome. I've been more of a reefcentral kinda guy, then I saw this Industry Behind the Hobby forum here and I figured that I'd give it a go.

Anyways, I'm just looking to startup a little side business getting in smaller SPS colonies maybe like a box of bali aquacultures at a time for local reefers and the such. I just want to be able to have a stable system that'll be able to handle this. The wholesaler said that it'd be about 14-16 heads/box. I'm contemplating getting some wild colonies too, but I don't want to get in over my head to start. So what size system do you think I'd need to support this?

 

[Anonymous]

how many boxes minimum will you have to deal with to make the freight/system expenses worthwhile?

 

[JennM]

Anyways, I'm just looking to startup a little side business getting in smaller SPS colonies maybe like a box of bali aquacultures at a time for local reefers and the such. I just want to be able to have a stable system that'll be able to handle this. The wholesaler said that it'd be about 14-16 heads/box. I'm contemplating getting some wild colonies too, but I don't want to get in over my head to start. So what size system do you think I'd need to support this?

Ah yes... a little side business :roll:

And the wholesaler that sells to said "side business" :roll: :roll:

Those of us who make this our livelihood are just dying to help out folks who short-cut.

Are you wanting to set up something where a coral can grow and thrive if you have it for a long time (the ugly ducklings that come in every "box lot" of corals) or are you planning on "turn and burn"?

::::self deleted:::: :evil:

 

[mkirda]

So what size system do you think I'd need to support this?

One box, you'd need a minimum 75 gallon with a big skimmer, carbon and lots of water flow. More than that, you will need more water. More the better.

The corals will fight big-time when put in the tank as they will be pissed off from shipping. Chemical warfare. This is why you need a big skimmer and carbon, as these will help remove the broad-spectrum organic compounds they use. You cannot be sure that either one will remove a specific compound though.

The only way it will be worthwhile is to start with 10 box lots or more, which means having a huge system and a fairly major investment. Wanna buy a 300 gallon Rubbermaid vat?

There are lots of brick and mortar store owners which frown on hobbyists doing what you are contemplating. They feel (rightly so) that you would be taking over their business, while you would probably not be having to pay the sorts of taxes that they do. It isn't a level playing field. So they (rightfully) resent the hobbyists that import a few boxes to sell to their friends, then get out of the business within a year or two.

Personally, I have no problems with hobbyists who run home businesses- I've seen a couple of very nice operations. I do have to admit that I have seen more though that do exactly what Jenn is alluding to- and they turn me off just as much as they do Jenn.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Anonymous]

You also have to keep in mind that in box of coral you might get two or three really nice pieces (if you are lucky), and the rest average or broken, or brown. So in order to get the killer pieces to compete at etail or to trade at a local club you have to be able to handle multiple boxes or be able to cherry pick from our favorite wholesalers.

 

[lclau]

JennM, your icon is a smilie, but I see none in your reply. Lighten up. I'm asking questions so I don't get into something and end up messing up.

I do in fact want to be able to hold corals and have them thrive and color up before I sell them. Who wants to buy a brown broken coral? Nobody unless they like taking those chances on some pieces. I want to test the waters and if it is successful, venture into more aspects of the business such as live rock and dry goods.

Thanks for all the replies,
Lawrence Lau

 

[JennM]

Lighten up? Mmmmkay My smiley avatar also holds a protest sign... in case you missed that...

Glenn's right - broken and brown... "Delta Frags" I call them Nothing like ordering that $$$ acro and having Delta Airlines create a blemished colony and a few frags... which is fine if you plan to hack up the colony anyway.. but I digress...

Colour up? Brown, dark brown, brown with a bit of green... somebody has to end up with all those brown corals that are left after the jobbers have picked over the good stuff The trick is finding a wholesaler that doesn't do that... (there's a HUGE trade secret there for ya!)

I've got a few pieces here *still* that didn't even sell when I had my progressive sale and offered them at 75% off, last fall! In fact one's a nice green lobo that I might make room for in my personal store display tank... then everybody will want it :lol:

For what it's worth, I don't have any problem with successful hobbyists trading in frags for store credit - I've got a nice orange M. capricornis growing for myself, which came in on trade, I sold 2 of the 3 frags and kept one for myself, and the seller used the credit to buy some other things. I support captive propagation, it's a great way to get well-acclimated specimens.

Yeah it's frustrating to see people set up "shop" in their garage, and sell near cost because they don't have the overhead that a retailer does... read a few threads on this board and you will understand better what I am driving at. Try the AMDA thread for starters. Retailers are the backbone of the hobby, and it's frustrating to see wholesalers selling directly to hobbyists - for they end up biting the hands that feed them. I've opted not to support wholesalers who practice this.. but clearly I'm a minority.

Just my 2 inflated cents...

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

I've got a few pieces here *still* that didn't even sell when I had my progressive sale and offered them at 75% off, last fall! In fact one's a nice green lobo that I might make room for in my personal store display tank... then everybody will want it :lol:

I have a whole 125 full of these. If they're not gone by the end of the month, into the display reef they go! About 30 pieces, all 50% off.

:?

Peace,

Chip

 

[naesco]

JennM, your icon is a smilie, but I see none in your reply. Lighten up. I'm asking questions so I don't get into something and end up messing up.

I do in fact want to be able to hold corals and have them thrive and color up before I sell them. Who wants to buy a brown broken coral? Nobody unless they like taking those chances on some pieces. I want to test the waters and if it is successful, venture into more aspects of the business such as live rock and dry goods.

Thanks for all the replies,
Lawrence Lau

Lawrence your approach is a wise approach. Learn the business and get more involved in it.
Search out LFS to sell your coral to. In that way the reefs will be saved from the steam shovels that are presently harvesting wild coral.
Soon there will be restrictions on the import of wild coral anyway and the only source for stock for the LFS will be free enterprisers like yourself.
Good Luck and
Jenn, be nice, eh!

 

[JennM]

JennM, your icon is a smilie, but I see none in your reply. Lighten up. I'm asking questions so I don't get into something and end up messing up.

I do in fact want to be able to hold corals and have them thrive and color up before I sell them. Who wants to buy a brown broken coral? Nobody unless they like taking those chances on some pieces. I want to test the waters and if it is successful, venture into more aspects of the business such as live rock and dry goods.

Thanks for all the replies,
Lawrence Lau

Lawrence your approach is a wise approach. Learn the business and get more involved in it.
Search out LFS to sell your coral to. In that way the reefs will be saved from the steam shovels that are presently harvesting wild coral.
Soon there will be restrictions on the import of wild coral anyway and the only source for stock for the LFS will be free enterprisers like yourself.
Good Luck and
Jenn, be nice, eh!

Nice? Eh?

Hey Wayne... how long have YOU been in the business? You propose to save us from ourselves with your "Reeeeeefooorrrrrm" rhetoric. You perhaps should take a dose of your own advise.

Why would LFS buy from Lawrence when they can buy direct from the same wholesalers, or perhaps they can afford enough money/tank space to transship themselves? Another chop shop isn't going to save the industry, OR the reefs.

And what of these "bans" you speak of? Are you privvy to information that we in the industry direct, are not?

Do tell, eh?

Jenn

 

[naesco]

Well Jenn the reason you should be nice to him and others llike him is because soon they will be your only source of coral.
It will all be frags or farmed and imports will be prohibited.

Why you ask?
Because of the rot in the industry: cyanide; importation of species with no hope of survival and selling them to unsuspecting reefers; destructive collection with no respect for the reef and the nations that they surround; irresponsible holding and transport causing needless die off;

Jenn your government is going to close down the industry because your industry refuses to believe there is a problem. Industry's "dirty little secrets have been outed".

 

[Anonymous]

Well Jenn the reason you should be nice to him and others llike him is because soon they will be your only source of coral.
It will all be frags or farmed and imports will be prohibited.

So sayeth naesco, the Nostrodamus of the 21st century!

 

[Anonymous]

So sayeth wayne.

And in is oh mighty glory, neasco strucketh down the damned cyanide caught fish, harmful coral collections and doomed livestock industry in one blow, er, I mean post.

Guess it's time for me to learn a new trade, huh Wayne, since the end is near?

 

[clarionreef]

WHY THERE ALREADY IS SEVERE REGULATION OF THE CORAL TRADE.
Take away 3-4 countries...and there is virtually no industry.
Beyond Indonesia, Fiji , Tonga and the Solomons...what else ya got?
Although destructive to mother colonies all over Indonesia and the big island in Fiji and Tonga...the rest of the planet is nearly coral "harvest" free. Look at a map and see for yourself how small the coral trade zone is.
Even if 20 other tropical countries wanted to, they can't ship to the west w/out the proper paperwork, mainly CITES. Most of the world bans coral collecting outright and thats not changing.
Even in Indo, there is rising sentiment against the trade as the growing middle class's kids are preaching "green politics" to distinguish themselves from their parents tradition of impotence under the Suharto dictatorship...now gone.
The world is changing and instead of working for a money grubbing exporter, the new generation wants to work for a money grubbing NGO.
Indo has dozens springing up now to cash in and they all need a boogie man. Guess what? We're it!
Steve

 

[Kalkbreath]

Close down coral collection? Ever wonder why the healthiest coral reefs are also where coral collection takes place? The whole Caribbean and the Philippines are fifty percent dead because OF FISH COLLECTION ? Fishing kills off more live coral in one day ......Then the live coral trade collects in a whole year! AND THATS USING YOUR Numbers!

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, Kalk agrees with Steve, take a picture someone.

 

[JennM]

Well Jenn the reason you should be nice to him and others llike him is because soon they will be your only source of coral.
It will all be frags or farmed and imports will be prohibited.

Why you ask?
Because of the rot in the industry: cyanide; importation of species with no hope of survival and selling them to unsuspecting reefers; destructive collection with no respect for the reef and the nations that they surround; irresponsible holding and transport causing needless die off;

Jenn your government is going to close down the industry because your industry refuses to believe there is a problem. Industry's "dirty little secrets have been outed".

Pssss hey Wayne... how is Lawrence going to be my "only source of coral" if he's buying from the same importers/wholesalers that my ilk are? Seems to me that if "my" supply dries up, so does his.

Do you think I don't propagate frags myself? Ask anybody who wants some of my coveted green star polyps :lol: which were started from a golf-ball sized frag which was given to me by another hobbyist... I already stated that I trade frags with others... so I have more than one source...

But Lawrence began by posting that he wanted to bring in Indo farmed corals (read: IMPORTED) and perhaps a few wild colonies (read: IMPORTED).

If bans on IMPORTS occur, as you so predict, than Lawrence can't get squat either. Then both he, and I and anybody else, will have to rely on frags bought and sold, from already captive colonies.

So sayeth me.

Funny how you shifted the focus, Wayne... when I quizzed you about YOUR industry experience after you were so sage to advise Lawrence, you changed the topic.

Hey Wayne, maybe you need to take a job in a LFS or at a wholesale facility, then maybe you'll know what you're talking about, before you instruct somebody else.

Walk a mile in my shoes.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Anyways, I'm just looking to startup a little side business getting in smaller SPS colonies maybe like a box of bali aquacultures at a time for local reefers and the such.

Maybe Wayne has a problem with his short term memory (Bali Aquacultured thread he participated in a few weeks back) or he truly doesn't understand that Bali Aquacultured means its FROM BALI which would be banned as well since (Bali) ocean based aquacultured stuff is still CITES controlled. Plus, not to mention the "small colonies" (read-WILD) he wanted to pick up as well would be banned. So, now he's outa business, who's Jenn gonna get her corals from Wayne? [/quote]