MAC's spokestoken...

[dizzy]

There is this perception here as to what sort of person John is: Bitter, hostile, small little man who snipes at everyone anti-MAC he can at any and all times, avoided all questions, and who is a complete yes-man for the MAC. Having known him for... Jeez, going on ten years now... I can honestly say that John the Human Being is not at all described by the perception(s) above.
Regards.
Mike Kirda

Mike,
I think it is just possible John got over-exposed. On the MAC BOD, On the MASNA BOD, On the CMAS BOD, MASNA representative to USCRTF, The hobbyist choosen to go to PI and see the successes of the MAC CAMPs first hand. Industry forum moderator. The guy choosen to develop and advise on the unsuitable species list. One of the guys MAC took to the New York Aquarium field day. I think John is a great guy but MAC really stoked his ego. It is almost impossible to have all those honors heeped upon someone without the head beginning to swell. Look at Tiger Woods and Michael Jordon for examples. When the MAC wanted a poster boy they went right on past Julian and Eric and chose John. That ain't John's fault. I think people are just jealous of John. All that and he makes house calls too.

 

[MaryHM]

What really galls me today is how many of the MAC folks there at IMAC already knew they would not really go thru with the CORL/MAC accord...and yet somehow believed that it would not be a big deal when finally revealed.

Come now Steve, surely you weren't really surprised by that? Remember, this is the same organization that posts timelines concerning a CDT and then refuses to follow through or give updates. They knew from the minute they posted that CDT memo that they didn't plan on following through on any of it. It just bought them some silence and time for several months. They have a tendency to make people think they're going to do one thing and to string them along, then do a complete 180. I guess they think the people involved will forget about it if they string them along long enough. Too bad for MAC that we all have long term memories.

 

[clarionreef]

Mary,
I'm afraid you're probably right.
MAC trainer, Ferdie himself thought they were just playing for time and temporarily lost at sea after his resignation from their emply in December of 02.
To us the excuse was originally that Lino, the country coordinator was too sick to make the June deadline to hand in the proposal. But at that time, there was no need to concoct the story told to James.
Lino was sick I know, but not nearly as long as the 2 months of debility claimed to have impaired him. In fact he was working in May and June.
Still...it would've been wise for MAC to unload the hot potato the supply problem had become. That was the reasoning behind our actually believing in them and we know very well how much Lino wanted a thousand divers trained...to take the heat off of him for not producing!!
He is under constant pressure to produce but he and I have always known this would be impossible...as Lino can't dive. Yes...you heard right. The head trainer and anchor of the grand plan is not an ocean person at all. Nice guy...but a dry one.
The training accord with CORL would've been heaven sent to Lino as it would've allowed him to tap serious supply, make the certified exporters happy, make the importers waiting for it happy...and make certified retailers like Living Sea happier as well.
But, Lino, who ended up w/ egg on his face...had the rug pulled out from under him.
So, the trickle of certified fish continues...to trickle.
Steve

 

[jamesw]

Response to Steve Robinson:

Maybe you don't know this Steve, but I talk to a lot of people. In fact, Mike King hangs out in #reefs all the time and we have talked about all of this.

So maybe I'm just a bit more well-balanced than you think I am.

I even talked to Mary the night before last. We disagreed strongly, but I certainly listened to what she said.

Response to Mary: Yes, the other moderators did not all agree with John's appointment either. But we all agreed to give it a try. We are a large group and we do not always agree on everything - that's what a democracy is all about. But it's what makes reefs.org strong - as opposed to other websites that are run by one "dictator."

Cheers
James

 

[Anonymous]

oh, and the notion that a:knowing who someone is should affect factual responses, and b: that 'identifying' yourself by claiming to be any so-n-so on a bb post is valid id :lol:

do you respect those who ignore you? :idea:

Do you respect those who incessantly flog you? :idea:

I'll tell you one thing Al, as I learn more and more who people are around here it's certainly been affecting my posts... :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

oh, and the notion that a:knowing who someone is should affect factual responses, and b: that 'identifying' yourself by claiming to be any so-n-so on a bb post is valid id :lol:

do you respect those who ignore you? :idea:

Do you respect those who incessantly flog you? :idea:

I'll tell you one thing Al, as I learn more and more who people are around here it's certainly been affecting my posts... :wink:

look

the only thing i ever 'flogged' was an organization named 'MAC', an organization, NOT an individual

we clear on that? :wink:

this was answered w/a direct, and unmistakeable, personal attack by jb

answering the 'flogging' :lol: w/a PERSONAL attack automatically means all gloves are off, and personal attacks are allowed

if ya can't stand the heat, don't open up the friggin' kitchen door :idea:

:wink:

i didn't even know who jb was, before he posted that reply, how could i ever even have 'flogged' him? :?

 

[dizzy]

Maybe you don't know this Steve, but I talk to a lot of people. In fact, Mike King hangs out in #reefs all the time and we have talked about all of this.
Cheers
James

So James what you are telling us is that Mike King has taken the blame for not turning in the paperwork to the MAC?????

 

[jamesw]

Vitz said:

answering the 'flogging' w/a PERSONAL attack automatically means all gloves are off, and personal attacks are allowed

That is ABSOLUTELY not true. It is NEVER acceptable to make a personal attack here on reefs.org.

Please take heed.

Sincerely,
James Wiseman

 

[Anonymous]

i didn't even know who jb was, before he posted that reply, how could i ever even have 'flogged' him?

Ahhh... - So then perhaps we do have some things in common... :wink:

 

[mkirda]

So James what you are telling us is that Mike King has taken the blame for not turning in the paperwork to the MAC?????

Omigod... Given what I know, that is soooo..... funny.
Mitch, if you only knew...

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[jamesw]

Reply to Dizzy:

Right - who would willingly accept blame when they don't have to? Most of the people who post in the forum have already made up their minds.

But there is a huge difference between accepting blame and saying: "Yes, it was my fault, I had agreed to write up the proposal but I never got it finished to the satisfaction of everyone" and just saying "Nothing ever happened, so I gave up. It's someone else's fault."

Cheers
James

 

[Anonymous]

Vitz said:

answering the 'flogging' w/a PERSONAL attack automatically means all gloves are off, and personal attacks are allowed

That is ABSOLUTELY not true. It is NEVER acceptable to make a personal attack here on reefs.org.

Please take heed - this is why you were temporarily banned in the past.

Sincerely,
James Wiseman

a simple question, james...

if the above is true, then why wasn't jb's post ever deleted?

do you deny that it was a personal attack? :?

 

[jamesw]

Hi Vitz,

I'll answer you with an honest question and then I am washing my hands of this:

Do you want me to go back through all of threads while John was moderator and delete all of the ones that you think are attacks? I'll let you pick yours and delete them, then I'll go next and pick the ones I think should be deleted.

Sincerely,
James

 

[Anonymous]

no, but putting an end to your double standards when playing the 'blame game' would be nice

now i'll go 'wash my hands of this, too

 

[MaryHM]

look

the only thing i ever 'flogged' was an organization named 'MAC', an organization, NOT an individual

we clear on that?

this was answered w/a direct, and unmistakeable, personal attack by jb

answering the 'flogging' w/a PERSONAL attack automatically means all gloves are off, and personal attacks are allowed

You hit the nail on the head there, vitz. The problem with John is that he took attacks on MAC as attacks on John Brandt. Last time I checked, John Brandt wasn't MAC. Unfortunately, because he felt like he was being personally attacked (although that wasn't the case at all), he went on the defensive. I don't think that John could ever come back in here and represent MAC. He takes everything said about that organization too personally and is apparently unable to realize that comments against MAC are not comments against John Brandt. Now before James comes back with some lame "But Mary, you get upset when someone attacks MSI or SeaCrop", let me clarify that I am my business. It is mine. My livelihood depends on it. I built it. It is my baby. I am solely responsible for it. There is a difference between my situation and John's. John is just a board member of MAC, with no real decision making abilities. He's not MAC, and I wish he would recognize that fact. The forum would have been much better off if he would have.

 

[JennM]

Since the can o'worms is open....

When my business and I were personally attacked, rather than take the gloves off, I went to RDO administration and reported my grievance. JB was still the moderator at that time, and so I took my grievance to a list of moderators, by email.

It took over a week for any action (I think it took 10 days total), and unless I'm mistaken, the attack was left standing, and a generic apology appeared around the time that John withdrew as moderator. I don't care to pour over endless posts to find the specifics, but I do recall that it took numerous correspondences to get anything at all. I also remember various private communications with individual staff members, which were rather enlightening too... seems that there can be differences among the ranks

If I'd blasted back, I'd have been edited/deleted or possibly banned, in particular for insubordination toward a moderator. I was certainly at a disadvantage, to be sure. At the very least anybody complaining about the content of my posts would have received a more prompt response. However, I do try to always observe the rules of decorum, and if I can't defend what I say to that end, I simply don't say it. (Oh the times I've bitten my tongue...)

I bear no grudge... and I usually don't dredge stuff up once it's done and over with, and I bear no lasting animosity (really!). However, given what's being said here and now, about what happened then, I think it's only fair to point out inconsistencies.

Respectfully,

Jennifer Myerscough

 

[Len]

Learn from past mistakes. Don't dwell on them.

Let's move on. I honestly think everyone is a little overly sensitive and argumentative in this particular forum.

 

[clarionreef]

You may not know this James, but I talk to a lot more people on this then you do.
Now I said that tongue in cheek just to see how it felt to say something so silly.
So James,
You have nothing else to say about all the points made?
Really? Steve

 

[Anonymous]

It is my opinion that it seems that (some) folks appear to have rather selective memories.

I agree with Len, the point is to move on - at least one horse is dead, let's deal with current issues.. even if they're old issues that are still current (such as unanswered questions). I don't know that everyone is sensitive and argumentative.. but, it's all a matter of perspective. I feel that we do have some contributors who communicate rather effectively without being necessarily argumentative or overly sensitive. I appreciate their balance.

I think that, while we should drop the issue of who shall answer here for MAC, it is still quite pertinent that someone from MAC answers someone (hopefully someone who posts here, eh?) within a reasonable period of time. In my mind it doesn't matter if they take the time to answer on this forum or directly via email.

(On the subject of "difficulties using this medium" - It is the written word, and we humans have been, for a significant portion of history, limited to communicating in written form, and have done so very effectively. I fail to see how the inconveniencing of a few electrons ultimately makes this method all that different.)

A full quarter of a year, to me, is not exactly reasonable. This is an example of an "old" issue that is still, unfortunately, quite current, and still causes much consternation. Maybe someone working for or representing the MAC would care to communicate regarding at least this issue, either privately or publicly. (Otherwise, it sure does seem as though we're all just shouting to each other, doesn't it?)

 

[jamesw]

Hi Steve,

Let's talk at the Marine Ornamentals conference next month - in person. Then I won't have to wade through all of your hyperbole.

Cheers
James