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Norm, MASNA doesn't have a report on HR 4928 yet. I will do that after I learn more about it. Any day now there will be a brief press release directing members to look at the bill. I should be at the USCRTF meeting in Miami next month. I'll probably learn more there.
Will the report with presumably recommendations be endorsed by the executive of MASNA?John_Brandt":kic63red said:Norm, MASNA doesn't have a report on HR 4928 yet. I will do that after I learn more about it. Any day now there will be a brief press release directing members to look at the bill. I should be at the USCRTF meeting in Miami next month. I'll probably learn more there.
Great! - I might be "naive as hell" as Mitch has said but I really think a fair percentage (30% or better)of hobbyists will stand up and take notice. - With any luck, 75% of those will be willing to take a little action. (Read further..)
What would be even better is if some of the leaders of the other organizations in the industry would do more than talk/*****/whine/remain totally apathetic and come together in creating a sort of "standardized" letter to send to representatives on this issue.
FWIW, I am researching some automated processes where constituents can write their respective reps regarding this bill. - With a "canned" message to send I think more people would be willing to click a few buttons on a web page to fire a letter off...
Norm
What would be even better is if some of the leaders of the other organizations in the industry would do more than talk/*****/whine/remain totally apathetic and come together in creating a sort of "standardized" letter to send to representatives on this issue.
FWIW, I am researching some automated processes where constituents can write their respective reps regarding this bill. - With a "canned" message to send I think more people would be willing to click a few buttons on a web page to fire a letter off...
Norm
Norm there has been recommendations most recently as a year ago that suggested that industry avoid government involvment in their industry and our hobby by setting up some minimum practise standards.
Adopt a CDT within a reasonalble timeline.
Look at ways of improving the transport of fish
Endorsing a USL (Unsuitable species List) which would not allow for the import of species which have no hope of survival in hobbyist tanks
The government are aware of these initiatives and the fact that industry refuses to do anything on it own.
Thus we are faced with government sanctions which could have been easily avoided.
If industry took some reeform initiatives now perhaps this might change but it is a totally wasted effort to try to stop the bill
Adopt a CDT within a reasonalble timeline.
Look at ways of improving the transport of fish
Endorsing a USL (Unsuitable species List) which would not allow for the import of species which have no hope of survival in hobbyist tanks
The government are aware of these initiatives and the fact that industry refuses to do anything on it own.
Thus we are faced with government sanctions which could have been easily avoided.
If industry took some reeform initiatives now perhaps this might change but it is a totally wasted effort to try to stop the bill
naesco":sliw0skf said:Will the report with presumably recommendations be endorsed by the executive of MASNA?John_Brandt":sliw0skf said:Norm, MASNA doesn't have a report on HR 4928 yet. I will do that after I learn more about it. Any day now there will be a brief press release directing members to look at the bill. I should be at the USCRTF meeting in Miami next month. I'll probably learn more there.
Wayne, the report will be an objective explanation and summary of the bill. It will allow any member the opportunity to think what they may about it. They can take action if they choose.
Although it is certainly of interest to hobbyists, the bill is directed at the American MO importing industry. Hobbyists would be affected if the bill caused significant changes in the market economics and/or inventory variety and flow within the trade. There would be a limited amount of change that the entire chain-of-custody could bear with little overall change in status quo. But there would be some hypothetical point where widespread domino effects would move in all directions of the trade and consequently the hobby.
FWIW, I am researching some automated processes where constituents can write their respective reps regarding this bill. - With a "canned" message to send I think more people would be willing to click a few buttons on a web page to fire a letter off...
Automated form letters don't get a whole lot of attention from the representatives. They like individual letters. In my opinion, having dealt with legislative issues with the airline transport ban, the Caulerpa ban, and the New York ban, there is a time and a way to fight legislation. I don't think now is the time. It needs to be done a little later in the game to be effective. Keep watching the bill's status.
I agree. - There are hypothetical points where a domino effect could occur. - And thats precisely why I think it would be good for hobbyists to have a clear message to send to their representatives on this. - And why it would be a good idea for wholesalers and retailers to help shape an example message for them to send.John_Brandt":3gf2qva5 said:Although it is certainly of interest to hobbyists, the bill is directed at the American MO importing industry. Hobbyists would be affected if the bill caused significant changes in the market economics and/or inventory variety and flow within the trade. There would be a limited amount of change that the entire chain-of-custody could bear with little overall change in status quo. But there would be some hypothetical point where widespread domino effects would move in all directions of the trade and consequently the hobby.
Hmmm.. - Well, I'll agree that its a bit early in the game yet, but I don't think its too early to get started... :wink: - Besides, nothings wrong with a pre-emptive strike. (Some might even see this bill as MAC's pre-emptive strike, yes?)MaryHM":3gf2qva5 said:Automated form letters don't get a whole lot of attention from the representatives. They like individual letters. In my opinion, having dealt with legislative issues with the airline transport ban, the Caulerpa ban, and the New York ban, there is a time and a way to fight legislation. I don't think now is the time. It needs to be done a little later in the game to be effective. Keep watching the bill's status.
And again, you're right, canned messages don't pack a lot of punch, but for those meek souls who are only capable of clicking a few links to express their views at least they are sending a message of numbers.... - Besides, it gives them something to work from in sending something more personalized. (I've used sites that give canned messages to start from.. - Matter of fact, the organization I'm trying to get info from powers the last site I used for that... - http://www.capwiz.com/freegrapes/issues/?style=D
-- Vitz.. - :lol: - Thanx! (I think....) -- There should be a link on that site there YOU should consider filling some info out on too.. - Michigan is trying to stop recent action that has temporarily allowed direct wine shipping into MI. (Meaning, you can now order wines and have them shipped in legally but the state is trying to stop it again..)
http://www.capwiz.com/freegrapes/mail/o ... id=3300086
Mary, I customized that last canned message (found in the link to Vitz) to include some very specific information I have knowledge of regarding a meading operation that was effectively shut down due to Michigans past restrictions on wine shipping. - Take a quick look... - Like I said, it gives people a place to start. (You know how so many people love the govt. and know how to effectively communicate with it...)
Regards to all,
Norm
Hmmm.. - Well, I'll agree that its a bit early in the game yet, but I don't think its too early to get started... - Besides, nothings wrong with a pre-emptive strike. (Some might even see this bill as MAC's pre-emptive strike, yes?)
regardless of whether or not mac was involved in influencing the bill or not, both it, and mamti, seem more to be mac's last gasp/chance for any type of long term survival, imo
i think they're not too far at the moment from many folks not putting much faith in their 'certs' and stickers
if they can't get a solid lock on income from the biz, and a production line going soon for product, or entrenchment in the process, this may be the only thing that keeps them in the game as a viable 'playah'
just a theory :wink:
Well... - That might be. - Don't know, don't rightly care actually.
My only concern is for that of the reefs and future global sustainability - above and below the waves.
My beliefs tell me that this bill could be a step in the right direction as long as its properly guided. - And like any good republican will tell you (especially now days) the men at the top rely on getting good information in order to make the right decisions.. :wink:
My only concern is for that of the reefs and future global sustainability - above and below the waves.
My beliefs tell me that this bill could be a step in the right direction as long as its properly guided. - And like any good republican will tell you (especially now days) the men at the top rely on getting good information in order to make the right decisions.. :wink:
Hmmm.. - Well, I'll agree that its a bit early in the game yet, but I don't think its too early to get started... - Besides, nothings wrong with a pre-emptive strike.
Getting everything organized? Go for it. Actually sending correspondence at this point? I'd hold off. It could be months before this bill ever gets anywhere close to a vote (if it even gets that far). Send correspondence now, and everyone will forget about it by the time the vote comes around. Like I said, based on having successfully fought this kind of stuff in the past, I would hold off. Keep an eye on the status. Watch what the committees say. Once it looks like this thing is going somewhere other than to yet another committee, then act.
MaryHM":3giaerwe said:FWIW, I am researching some automated processes where constituents can write their respective reps regarding this bill. - With a "canned" message to send I think more people would be willing to click a few buttons on a web page to fire a letter off...
Automated form letters don't get a whole lot of attention from the representatives. They like individual letters. In my opinion, having dealt with legislative issues with the airline transport ban, the Caulerpa ban, and the New York ban, there is a time and a way to fight legislation. I don't think now is the time. It needs to be done a little later in the game to be effective. Keep watching the bill's status.
Too early :roll:
It is too late.
Wow the MASNA web site has banner ads for discount etailers. 8O Marine aquarium societies are turning into vehicles to steer hobbyists away from retail stores and toward etailing. We all know cheaper sells. Just ask JennM about her experience with the Atlanta Reef Club. This does make one wonder how effective the MAMTI stategy of using aquarium societies to create demand for certified product will be. Mail order and etail customers who do not support their local fish stores will not be very effective in getting them to carry these items. Perhaps Fosters and Smith should be certified sooner rather than later. The hobbyists get what they want and the reefs are saved by the dramatic drop in demand that is caused by the collapse of the wholesale distribution chain, along with the influx of new hobbyists it inspires. Industry meltdown. At least we still agree on one thing, hr4928 shuts down most of the industry (about 99%) for all of us, if it is passed in its current form. Even collecting in Florida will be illegal. This bill does a lot more than target countries that use cyanide. There aren't even any aquaculture facilites that can currently meet the requirements of this law. Careful what you wish for people. Very careful.
Mitch
Mitch
dizzy":utu2mrwb said:Wow the MASNA web site has banner ads for discount etailers. 8O Marine aquarium societies are turning into vehicles to steer hobbyists away from retail stores and toward etailing.
MASNA is also running banner ads for a brick and mortar store - an AMDA member brick and mortar at that. MASNA is running banner ads for any of its corporate members that supply a suitably sized graphic.
MASNA doesn't have a particular opinion regarding the etail vs. brick and mortar issue, Mitch. We are not biased toward etail or conventional retail. If you wish, Fishy Business can fill out a membership application, send a 468 x 60 banner graphic; and if there is no objection by the MASNA Board of Directors your ad can run next to Blue Sierra, The Drs., and the other ads. If you join you can also voice an objection about the etailer's banner ads, place a motion, and seek a vote by our directors or our membership regarding the issue. We'd welcome you and consider your opinions.
Sincerely,
Lee Morey
Marine Aquarium Societies of North America
Vice President
GratefulDiver,
The notification to MASNA membership that John Brandt referred to (regarding the bill and a link to its text) was emailed this morning.
Personally, I'm waiting for John's report to the MASNA membership about the September USCRTF meeting before I write any congressional representatives. By the way, a significant portion of MASNA membership fees go directly towards sending hobbyist representation to USCRTF meetings and wholesaling that information to our membership.
Lee Morey
Marine Aquarium Socities of North America
Vice President
The notification to MASNA membership that John Brandt referred to (regarding the bill and a link to its text) was emailed this morning.
Personally, I'm waiting for John's report to the MASNA membership about the September USCRTF meeting before I write any congressional representatives. By the way, a significant portion of MASNA membership fees go directly towards sending hobbyist representation to USCRTF meetings and wholesaling that information to our membership.
Lee Morey
Marine Aquarium Socities of North America
Vice President
Lee,
Thanks that's a nice offer. I guess I just hate to see etail everywhere you look. There is really no good sites a retail store can send customers for information that is free of the stuff. It is really a shame. I think a lot of stores just try and pretend the internet doesn't exist. It does seem like many people just join the clubs to learn how to cut out the middleman. I wish Jenn would jump in here with her experience. Retailers are losing drygoods sales to the internet in a big way on high ticket items. The big boxes also take a chunk. Now we are faced with hr4928 and the MAMTI plan. If hr4928 becomes law MAC will have to certify Petco and F&S. Either that or they will get sued. The supply will not be able to keep up with the demand if everything must be proven sustainable. The long predicted fall of the lfs will surely come to pass as the monster chain flexes it muscle to hog up the limited supply. Petco is by far ORA's biggest customer so guess who gets rights of first refusal on the limited cultured stuff. Most of the etailers will take the fall with the retailers. Petco doesn't really need the marine fish sales to get by. Even if there is enough cultured stuff to go around everyone will have the same stuff. The stuff that is easy to culture. It becomes a game of who can sell the cheapest without going under. The big box stores can actually benefit from this law as it will become the perfect tool to eliminate stores that rely on profit from the marine sections.
Mitch
Thanks that's a nice offer. I guess I just hate to see etail everywhere you look. There is really no good sites a retail store can send customers for information that is free of the stuff. It is really a shame. I think a lot of stores just try and pretend the internet doesn't exist. It does seem like many people just join the clubs to learn how to cut out the middleman. I wish Jenn would jump in here with her experience. Retailers are losing drygoods sales to the internet in a big way on high ticket items. The big boxes also take a chunk. Now we are faced with hr4928 and the MAMTI plan. If hr4928 becomes law MAC will have to certify Petco and F&S. Either that or they will get sued. The supply will not be able to keep up with the demand if everything must be proven sustainable. The long predicted fall of the lfs will surely come to pass as the monster chain flexes it muscle to hog up the limited supply. Petco is by far ORA's biggest customer so guess who gets rights of first refusal on the limited cultured stuff. Most of the etailers will take the fall with the retailers. Petco doesn't really need the marine fish sales to get by. Even if there is enough cultured stuff to go around everyone will have the same stuff. The stuff that is easy to culture. It becomes a game of who can sell the cheapest without going under. The big box stores can actually benefit from this law as it will become the perfect tool to eliminate stores that rely on profit from the marine sections.
Mitch
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