Is there any effort to regulate what people claim on thier packageing? Or a UL type thing where you want to be listed with them because it proves your product lives upto its claims? The over use of things like 'cycle your tank overnight' is just rediculous. Is he entire pet industry like this? Any reason there hasn't been an orginization to police or rather, "authenticate claims" of dry goods claims?
Dry goods regulation?
- Thread starter mark78
- Start date
Usually the MARKET does a good job of doing that.
P.T. Barnum observed that, "There's one born every minute."
Aquarium additives are no different than miracle weight loss supplements, memory enhancers, and automobiles: Your mileage may vary.
The last thing we need is yet another regulatory organization butting their nose into our business where it doesn't belong.
If you are skeptical about the claims of a product, don't use it, or experiment with it to prove or disprove your theories, and publish them. You are free to do this, as is anybody else.
If a product does what it claims, it usually sells well. If it doesn't, consumers won't buy it, or won't continue to buy it, if they try it and it doesn't work.
Just like anything else, let common sense prevail.
Jenn
P.T. Barnum observed that, "There's one born every minute."
Aquarium additives are no different than miracle weight loss supplements, memory enhancers, and automobiles: Your mileage may vary.
The last thing we need is yet another regulatory organization butting their nose into our business where it doesn't belong.
If you are skeptical about the claims of a product, don't use it, or experiment with it to prove or disprove your theories, and publish them. You are free to do this, as is anybody else.
If a product does what it claims, it usually sells well. If it doesn't, consumers won't buy it, or won't continue to buy it, if they try it and it doesn't work.
Just like anything else, let common sense prevail.
Jenn
Yes, there are laws & regulations about false advertising. The issue is that the FTC is overwhelmed dealing with other issues to bother doing cease-and-desists.
The 'market' (e.g. word of mouth) is usually pretty good.
If there were a market for a 'Consumer Reports' style of publication for dry goods, it probably would exist.
An interesting business plan (I'm not interested, btw) would be a web site where users would post their own experiences
The 'market' (e.g. word of mouth) is usually pretty good.
If there were a market for a 'Consumer Reports' style of publication for dry goods, it probably would exist.
An interesting business plan (I'm not interested, btw) would be a web site where users would post their own experiences
It sure didn't in my trials of it I'll have to stick to my guns, its PVC coated with snake oil. Wonder how much they paid Bob to pitch it? <cough>sell out<cough> I shoved the damn thing in my shoe and it cured all my ailments and kept my water clean to boot, geez, it even improved my gas milage by 33%. Why hook it up to you tank, it'll do the same thing still in the box
I'll have to stick to my guns, its PVC coated with snake oil. Wonder how much they paid Bob to pitch it? <cough>sell out<cough> I shoved the damn thing in my shoe and it cured all my ailments and kept my water clean to boot, geez, it even improved my gas milage by 33%. Why hook it up to you tank, it'll do the same thing still in the box :lol:
Unfortunately, I don't think anything in the advertising mentions the rate at which it does what (little) it does.
And just so theres no misunderstanding, all things aqualized, I feel the same. - Just not to the same degree because thats one mistake I didn't make! :wink:
Unfortunately, I don't think anything in the advertising mentions the rate at which it does what (little) it does.
And just so theres no misunderstanding, all things aqualized, I feel the same. - Just not to the same degree because thats one mistake I didn't make! :wink:
Well the device in question claims to reduce (the need for?) water changes 75%.
Do any casual survey of hobbyists and maintenance habits vary from those who do regular 10-20% changes every week to those who haven't done a thing but top off for 2 years... and both are successful. So that statement doesn't prove much.
"Guaranteed to keep fish healthier, happier, and much brighter colours by stabilizing and balancing water chemistry."
Does anybody know if a fish can truly be "happy"? :roll: Does this mean this product cures ich? Ich seems to be the biggest hobbyist complaint. How about HLLE? If I feed a diet solely of unenriched brine, will this product compensate and keep the fish "healthy and happy?"
Balancing water chemistry... so I will never have to add calcium supplements or pH buffer, right? Does it all for me.
Gresh, you forgot to mention that it will make your breakfast too
Grateful, have you TRIED this product? "From what I understand, it does operate as advertised...
Has anybody without a financial interest in this product, set up a controlled experiment with 2 similar tanks, one with the product and one without?
I'd be curious to see the results of that one.
I have a hard time believing that something which consists of PVC pipe, electrical tape, a few magnets, a plastic sleeve and a label, secured with a few Jaco fittings, will be the be-all and end-all of my aquarium.
I saw the expose done on a popular e-vendor's website... that's enough for me.
That is simply my personal opinion
Ya gotta love it though - these folks are probably selling 'em by the truckload because they are appealing to the lazy gene in people - "anything to avoid doing work"...
As for many products... elemental supplements, foods etc., for every one who says that it's "snake oil", there is another who swears that it's the secret to their aquarium's success.
I'm not a big fan of a supplement for everything, but I've found a few things that have worked for me.
What scares me is people adding stuff like iodine, on a regular basis, yet they don't have any/many soft corals or crustaceans or creatures that use iodine - they sometimes think 'more is better' and that can lead to overdosing - which is more harmful than if they didn't dose at all.
Still the market will dictate what is "good" and what isn't. Advertising has a very powerful influence.
This industry is no different than any other. Been through a drugstore lately? There are more lotions, potions and pills to fix this and that, than there will ever be for aquariums.
Jenn
Do any casual survey of hobbyists and maintenance habits vary from those who do regular 10-20% changes every week to those who haven't done a thing but top off for 2 years... and both are successful. So that statement doesn't prove much.
"Guaranteed to keep fish healthier, happier, and much brighter colours by stabilizing and balancing water chemistry."
Does anybody know if a fish can truly be "happy"? :roll: Does this mean this product cures ich? Ich seems to be the biggest hobbyist complaint. How about HLLE? If I feed a diet solely of unenriched brine, will this product compensate and keep the fish "healthy and happy?"
Balancing water chemistry... so I will never have to add calcium supplements or pH buffer, right? Does it all for me.
Gresh, you forgot to mention that it will make your breakfast too
Grateful, have you TRIED this product? "From what I understand, it does operate as advertised...
Has anybody without a financial interest in this product, set up a controlled experiment with 2 similar tanks, one with the product and one without?
I'd be curious to see the results of that one.
I have a hard time believing that something which consists of PVC pipe, electrical tape, a few magnets, a plastic sleeve and a label, secured with a few Jaco fittings, will be the be-all and end-all of my aquarium.
I saw the expose done on a popular e-vendor's website... that's enough for me.
That is simply my personal opinion
Ya gotta love it though - these folks are probably selling 'em by the truckload because they are appealing to the lazy gene in people - "anything to avoid doing work"...
As for many products... elemental supplements, foods etc., for every one who says that it's "snake oil", there is another who swears that it's the secret to their aquarium's success.
I'm not a big fan of a supplement for everything, but I've found a few things that have worked for me.
What scares me is people adding stuff like iodine, on a regular basis, yet they don't have any/many soft corals or crustaceans or creatures that use iodine - they sometimes think 'more is better' and that can lead to overdosing - which is more harmful than if they didn't dose at all.
Still the market will dictate what is "good" and what isn't. Advertising has a very powerful influence.
This industry is no different than any other. Been through a drugstore lately? There are more lotions, potions and pills to fix this and that, than there will ever be for aquariums.
Jenn
JennM":2gkhqlzw said:
this industry freely markets unregulated antibiotics and known carcinogens for direct immediate contact with people, and incorrect disposal into the environment
this industry also contributes directly and indirectly to local and more regional environmental damage
to be fair, i think there is definitely a need for certain forms of 'regulation' in the biz/hobby, and not just specifically the reef hobby, but for the pet industry as a whole
at the very least, i would love to see some sort of 'fair disclosure'/ ingredients laws/regulations passed in this country for consumers in general
or an msds requirement for all sellers for any product marketed for livestock/pet use
i don't think having an 8 yr old being able to walk into petsmart to buy 6 blister packs of e.m. to do with whatever they want is too 'commonsensical' either-there are people that even buy fish antibiotics in lieu of prescriptions to try and save money-not to even talk about the risk of creating antibiotic resistant strains of various bugs from low exposures in the environment
the whole issue gives me the heebie jeebies
irresponsible behavior is usually what leads to the need for outside intervention, and i think the industry as a whole stopped acting responsibly a looooong time ago (if it ever did)
JennM":28gxkv35 said:
GratefulDiver":28gxkv35 said:
I guess I could/should have added some fine print somewhere in in my past statements that says that no, I don't have any proof that it actually does what it claims to do, just that as someone who could easily stand in court as an expert witness in regards to various electronics and computer-related issues, I feel that it is somewhat likely it does have an effect on the water. (The hook is to what degree that effect is..)
In my opinion, you'll most likely need some very sophisticated equipment to measure any actual results and you're probably far more likely to see some of the types of results this product claims by instead using a properly-sized UV sterilizer. (And no, I don't use UV's either..)
But again, thats just my opinion. I have no proof and I don't really want to argue the issue when I'm essentially in agreement that the thing sucks sweaty donkey balls and should be regulated out of existence.
Is that clearer / make better sense?
-- And thanks for the link Shane.. It looks like a good start but probably has a long way to go to before anything actually conclusive can be drawn from it. Fortunately, anyone willing/able to press the matter probably has legal precedence to follow: http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/09/magnetict ... cd%26o.htm
So lets try this...
Disclaimer: All of the above are simply my personal opinions and are not based on any actual performance tests which have not as of this writing nor ever are likely to be performed by myself. Note also that I have no background in marine biological studies beyond that of a reasonably educated hobbyist with roughly 2 years of reefkeeping experience. - In other words, I cannot in fact verify that the product in question actually sucks sweaty donkey balls, but that I believe it may very well and to a far greater extent than what it may accomplish in what it advertises.
Better?
Norm
And for your reading enjoyment:
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33809
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45926
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45098
Shane
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=33809
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45926
http://reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=45098
Shane
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