Who regulates the saltwater industry?

[Anonymous]

Okay,

The marine ornamental industry is very difficult for an outsider to completely understand. For those of us who are interested in conservation, it is difficult to understand exactly how our interests and efforts are best served or suited.

Therefore, I am trying to make sense out of the whole oversight or regulation of this industry.

So, who regulates this industry? What is MAC? What is MASNA? Who are the main stakeholders and players?

What sort of international versus domestic regulations are there governing species collection, allowable yields, methods, etc. CITES? What else?

Thanks for your reponse.

I'm just trying to make sense of this mess.

-Brian

 

[Anonymous]

Let me reiterate, as an aquarist, I don't want to see an end to the hobby or import. What I do want to see is that programs are in place that increase the sustainability of this extraction for future generations.

 

[Anonymous]

Additionally, it'd be nice to be able to get a grasp on what "sister" organizations are out there that act/interact with the development (or lack thereof) of this trade.

Such as: CORL, The Coral Reef Alliance and all the others out there acting to "save the reefs"..

What countries out there have a solid management program in place and which ones are in the process of building one? - Why doesn't the PI govt. step in more to curb cyanide use?

 

[Anonymous]

Why doesn't the PI govt. step in more to curb cyanide use?

:roll: M O N E Y aka lack of funding for BFAR. Broke country = no funding.
M.A.C. has the role in PI for curbing cyanide use, and the money behind them to do it.

Over 6000 posts between you,two, lotsa posting!!! FWIW, if you go thru this forums archives, you'll find all that your asking for.

 

[naesco]

The answer to your question is no one.

The whole industry proceeds with unfettered delight.
Cyanide caught fish are imported from countries like the Philippines and Indonesia by the tonnes and sold to unsuspecting hobbyists.

The only way is to place and immediate embargo on fish imported from these countries until such time an a mandatory cyanide detection test is in place.

In addtion all those involved the the cyanide trade must face indictments for their participation in the destruction of the reefs in these countries.

 

[PeterIMA]

To Dr. Reef, Read the past posting in the archive. Many of your questions have been addressed already by the regulars who post on Industry Behind the Hobby.

Peter Rubec, Ph.D.
International Marinelife Alliance

 

[Caterham]

Cyanide caught fish are imported from countries like the Philippines and Indonesia by the tonnes and sold to unsuspecting hobbyists.

Can you prove this statement to be correct? Are you an importer of fish? Do you have a CDT in place?

 

[PeterIMA]

We are still waiting for the MAC to reinstate CDT with BFAR. It was the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA) that coined the term Cyanide Detection Testing (CDT). The IMA ran 6 CDT laboratories for the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) and tested over 48,000 fish from 1993 to 2001. BFAR now seems to be failing in carrying out further CDT.

I can prove what Wayne Ryan has stated. Caterham, you certainly have a short memory.

Peter

 

[naesco]

Cyanide caught fish are imported from countries like the Philippines and Indonesia by the tonnes and sold to unsuspecting hobbyists.

Can you prove this statement to be correct? Is the Pope Catholic :roll:

Are you an importer of fish?

No.

Do you have a CDT in place?

Soon it will be in place. Is it available today, Yes
Would it be accepted in a court of law as evidence. Absolutely

 

[Anonymous]

Would it be accepted in a court of law as evidence. Absolutely

Not in the USA, maybe in the great white north though, they're a little backwords up there :wink: . I see the sunshine state took the cup, over the great white north 8O . IMO, thats like the Jamacian bobsled team taking home the gold :lol: .

 

[Kalkbreath]

We are still waiting for the MAC to reinstate CDT with BFAR. It was the International Marinelife Alliance (IMA) that coined the term Cyanide Detection Testing (CDT). The IMA ran 6 CDT laboratories for the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) and tested over 48,000 fish from 1993 to 2001. BFAR now seems to be failing in carrying out further CDT.

I can prove what Wayne Ryan has stated. Caterham, you certainly have a short memory.

Peter

I dont think 14% of the total incomming fish constitutes "Tons of fish "................... 14% of six million aquarium fish is most likely three TONs of cyanide fish per year .............And that was ten ears ago Peter.......... Translation ; The CDT tests showed that only a small minority of the fish were exposed to cyanide. While at the same time the same tests showed the the near MAjority of the tens of thousands of tons food fish were tainted with poison........... The ears did not think much of the tens of thousands of tons of food fish [Even as they eat these fish }............let alone the three or for tons of aquarium fish. To think that the pwers that be will care now ten years latter .......is silly . We need new tests.

 

[Caterham]

With all due respect to those who get all emotional over this topic, I just want to ask a simple question.

Is there anyone with a detection test in place TODAY? I am not interested in history or what someone hopes to do in the future. Nor am I claiming that all fish are clean in any way, shape or form. I feel that there isn't any way of knowing if fish have been exposed unless someone TESTS them, EVERY DAY.

There will be fish landing in the US tomorrow from other countries. Can anyone PROVE that they have been exposed to cyanide?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Furture more , there ARE people regulating this industry, Spend a morning with the US fish and wildlife inspectors and fill out all the paperwork required to land fish and coral into the USA and you learn real soon who is in charge. No, the safeguards on fish are not that tight ,but that because our industry is having almost zero effects on wild fish populations.And the CITES understands this ........so why count grains of sand .............. Coral and clam imports are tight, Too tight. Have 301 clams in a shipment for 300 clams and you lose all 300 clams to the US fish and wildlife custody. even aquacultured clams! What the H**** sense is that? Why are corals grown on bottlecaps in aquaculture farms in need of a wild coral permit? Why can a Pacific island nation use live rock to build an airport but not export one millionth of that rock to the trade? The amount of enviromental sensitive livestock that is permited to enter the USA each year is regulated..............What happens to that livestock after it is released to the care of storefronts and hobbyists is up to those individuals .....

 

[Anonymous]

The answer to your question is no one.

The whole industry proceeds with unfettered delight.
Cyanide caught fish are imported from countries like the Philippines and Indonesia by the tonnes and sold to unsuspecting hobbyists.

The only way is to place and immediate embargo on fish imported from these countries until such time an a mandatory cyanide detection test is in place.

In addtion all those involved the the cyanide trade must face indictments for their participation in the destruction of the reefs in these countries.

Here we go again. :wink:

I dont think 14% of the total incomming fish constitutes "Tons of fish "................... 14% of six million aquarium fish is most likely three TONs of cyanide fish per year .............And that was ten ears ago Peter.......... Translation ; The CDT tests showed that only a small minority of the fish were exposed to cyanide. While at the same time the same tests showed the the near MAjority of the tens of thousands of tons food fish were tainted with poison........... The ears did not think much of the tens of thousands of tons of food fish [Even as they eat these fish }............let alone the three or for tons of aquarium fish. To think that the pwers that be will care now ten years latter .......is silly . We need new tests.

And round and round we go, where it stops, nobody knows. 8O

 

[PeterIMA]

Knowse, I agree. Kalk continues to spin misinformation.

There is still CDT being conducted in the Philippines in Puerto Princesa (mostly on food fish).
The MAC in their last letter questioned the reliabality of the BFAR testing. We are still waiting on their next move.

Peter

 

[mkirda]

Is there anyone with a detection test in place TODAY?

Can anyone PROVE that they have been exposed to cyanide?

Yes, there are labs running in the Philippines.

As for fish arriving here, you realize that the only existing testing facility is in the PI, and that the testing procedure involves liquidizing the fish, right? So, yes, it is technically possible to confirm that a fish was exposed to cyanide- But it would be dead, dead, dead afterwards.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[mkirda]

I dont think 14% of the total incomming fish constitutes "Tons of fish "

I see the same lies are continuing to be spread by Kalkbreath...
I guess that should come as no surprise.

{shaking my head}

 

[mkirda]

Okay,

The marine ornamental industry is very difficult for an outsider to completely understand. For those of us who are interested in conservation, it is difficult to understand exactly how our interests and efforts are best served or suited.

Therefore, I am trying to make sense out of the whole oversight or regulation of this industry.

So, who regulates this industry? What is MAC? What is MASNA? Who are the main stakeholders and players?

What sort of international versus domestic regulations are there governing species collection, allowable yields, methods, etc. CITES? What else?

Thanks for your reponse.

I'm just trying to make sense of this mess.

-Brian

Brian,

In a word, no one...

Now, Fish and Wildlife may ban imports on some fish species.
CITES covers Live rock and corals.
Beyond that, there are no enforced regulations governing species collection, allowable yields, methods, etc. Regulations, hell - even laws, do exist stating that you cannot import something that was collected illegally overseas, but it is not enforced in any meaningful way. How can a customs inspector tell?

MAC- Read the past posts on this organization.
MASNA- Group that looks after the interests of Aquarium clubs.

The truth is that there is a great disconnect between what the concerned, conservation-minded hobbyist wants and what the industry provides. It stretches all the way back to the collectors, who merely get what they can collect because it is a way of putting food on the table, regardless of whether or not the fish is appropriate for an aquarium.

Again, read the past pages on this forum- It will be alternately tedious, funny, outrageous, and enlightening.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[Kalkbreath]

No , actually there seems to be a giant disconnect between what they say they want and what they are willing to follow through with............I have in my store many of the aquacultured corals ...the ones on bottle caps from Jakarta ........the ones on flat disks from BAli..........the ones on dome disks from the swiss guy..........neon green ...neon blue............but the wild ones cost one third the cost of the man made . ..........so what do you think the customers buy? ...................I make more profit on the wild ones ..... so which ones do you think I like to sell? .........................Talk is cheap ..........But hobbyists are even cheaper....... :wink:

 

[JennM]

No , actually there seems to be a giant disconnect between what they say they want and what they are willing to follow through with............I have in my store many of the aquacultured corals ...the ones on bottle caps from Jakarta ........the ones on flat disks from BAli..........the ones on dome disks from the swiss guy..........neon green ...neon blue............but the wild ones cost one third the cost of the man made . ..........so what do you think the customers buy? ...................I make more profit on the wild ones ..... so which ones do you think I like to sell? .........................Talk is cheap ..........But hobbyists are even cheaper....... :wink:

OMG - I actually agree with Kalk!!! That's twice now, THIS YEAR!!!!

What's the world coming to??? 8O

Seriously though -- talk IS cheap and at the end of the day it's all about PRICE.

Jenn