fish tax?

[Kalkbreath]

Would a fish tax work ? Could a tax raise enough money to help the reefs?
Perhaps........But keep in mind that the total sales of fish in PI for last year was about 4 million.
Even if we doubled the price of fish with a 100% added tax , that would create only 4 million bucks?
After administration fees what would be left? And what would we do with the money? Replanted corals would last until next rain storm smothers the reef with runoff and silt.
Or until the food fishermen come by with blast bombs .
See , because corals are of no value in PI .......they are treated as such .
Money made from collecting fish will never directly create a value for live healthy corals....... :wink:

 

[devils advocate]

Would it not help to funnel money into projects like net training, netting themselves, or CDT lab funding? Even $5k for the net fund that was raised earlier this year apparantly went a long way.

 

[Anonymous]

Yah, but very little went to "adminisrative budgets" due to no NGO being involved No staff got paid, just freight/handling/duties and of course, netting.

 

[PeterIMA]

I don't see why a "fish tax" will be needed if the MAC is taking care of net-training, certification, and underwater surveys. Isn't $8.5 million from the World Bank Global Environmental Facility (GEF) enough? If the U.S. government passes legislation making certification necessary, I assume that it will be MAC Certification. If so, then the funds paid by exporters, importers, and retailers to the MAC should be sufficient (without also having a fish tax). Of course, those in the trade that don't become MAC Certified may find themselves out of business. The MAC programs may not cover CDT and the fish exported may not be cyanide-free or net-caught. Without some way of checking (like CDT testing) how is it possible to verify that MAC Certified fish are cyanide-free or net-caught?

Peter
(representing several NGOs that care)

Peter Rubec

 

[horge]

MAC is an interesting creature, pretending at SRO (Self-Regulating Organization) status before it fully has it. Now, if/when the necessary legislation comes around either explicitly empowering it as an SRO, or assigning it certification-chokepoint power (and therefore SRO status by fiat), then it will derive revenues not via some 'per-fish-tax', but mostly as it attempts to do presently:

A tax on fish is silly because the calculation of the tax owed is messy --even if you drop Wayne's new **cough** idea of a per-fish computation, and move instead to a bulk-friendly weight-based computation, there's still the issue of weighing the merch separately from its accompanying water, no? You can't peg it to a box, because box-cramming is precisely what we ought to be discouraging...

Much simpler to identify and monitor the member MO importers/retailers, and tax them NOT based on fish imported, but rather poll-style... a 'membership fee' if you like.

MAC here in the Philippines is the best refutation to any thought that a duty/levy/tax/fee placed on the MO industry would generate funds that would actually be spent effectively on protecting/repairing the reefs or the trade. No slam on MAC's honesty or intentions, really... but there's no disputing what's on the ground after all this time, and I presume quite a fair bit of cash spent.

The questions are
-How is this putative levy to be computed, given the gap in DOA/DAA?
-Who collects the putative levy, and for what operating cost?
-Who administers the putative levy and for what operating cost?
-Who audits the levy-collectors/administrators?
-Can the operating costs of the levy-collectors/administrators/auditors and of course the downstream environmental contractors hired, all be supported by the MO industry?

As pointed out, there is no shortage of funds available from several NGO's (international ones even) for programs that claim to have a way to help the reef environment in locations X,Y and Z.

Raising money is merely the POTENTIAL of a solution..
If you don't really know what to do with the money, you're doing little good and a lot of harm, as that money could,ve gone to those who DO know what to do with it. That money is hard-earned by MO retailers/importers, and again, money is just the potential of a solution.

Solutions are found in people trustworthy, talented, and crazy enough to take the money and use it effectively, at ground zero, versus the problems that plague the collection, shipping, and general handling aspects of the MO pipeline, as well as the reefs themselves.





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[clarionreef]

Jorge,
You're no fun. Why did you have to go and tell some Canadians that throwing money at something won't neccessarily solve it ?
Somehow, some of them have gotten this far in life thinking it would.
Afterall, look how much good the 'Oil for Food" program worked in Iraq.
It earned Saddam enough to 'go again.'
Look how effective the UN has been in generating Peace in the Mid-East commensurate with cashflow.
Look how much was spent on the M.O. issues for the past decade despite the fact that the right netting was just discovered this year!
[ not deployed mind you...but "discovered".]

Look how much MAMTI will blow in the Philippines in the coming years as the reefs and the fishermans lives remain unchanged.
[ oops, just saw the future...ie. glitch in the matrix}

Fish Tax? How absolutely absurd. Not a dime would ever make it past Quezon Blvd.

Read the new MAMTI docs and see what the coming decade will be be reacting to. The money pot is already coming...
But like the Food for Oil scandal...it will enrich the clever ones and leave the rest unchanged.
Steve
PS. I wish a new BFAR would simply manage its own ornamental fishery properly and sincerely and pre-empt all this foreign eco-carpetbagging .
An honest BFAR could do so much....for its own people.

 

[kylen]

Why did you have to go and tell some Canadians that throwing money at something won't neccessarily solve it ?

That is funny...I have two words for all Canadians..."GUN REGISTRY"

 

[clarionreef]

Kyle,
Translation please.
If you have to explain the joke, it won't work...but we 'Southerners' just don't get it.
Steve

 

[kylen]

Steve,

I know Wayne will understand. The Cdn gov't decided a few years ago to make a gun registry to track all firearms in the country. Of course all criminals will register their guns. This registry was supposed to cost us taxpayers about $2mil. We still don't have a functioning registry and we are now at about $1bil (yes $1bil) and counting. In fact the gov't just asked for another $80mil to get it through the fiscal year.

Point...this is what can happen when gov't gets involved in anything.

 

[clarionreef]

Gotcha,
Totally understandable and applicable to our situation.
First; Decent premise and impulse....
Then; Incompetent planning and implementation....cost over runs and failed schedule.
Finally; Cover-up of incompetence and ignorance....
Lastly; Disillusionment and 'burning out'...

Poor Wayne is still stuck on the 'decent premise and impulse' phase.


Steve