Steve/Gresham - Tropical Paradise in Tonga
- Thread starter JT
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Why'd you bring me into this JT? Yah I knew Eddie was going, so did the entire Bay Area, so the fricking what? A lot of LA knew as well, guess your ear isn't to the ground or your jus' deaf. I posted on RC about Eddie setting up a better fish holding system, how'd you aquait that to me being a party to this so called coral plunder? AS for Eddie and Chris's business, it's none of mine, and it's sure none of yours. I'm sure it's in accordance to Tongan law.
Actually doesn't the Australian fisheries .....Viliami Petelo and US fish and Wildlife also have quite a say in this? Tonga importation has had quite a year in 2004 ........there have been several events that ended up with dead or conficated shipments ....... Even a few hefty fines . JT is hardly alone when it comes to industry types having tired of all the irregularities......... Posting pictures of coral collection in areas which normaly dont have collection and or the removal of corals much larger then typical collectors remove IS not good for the industry or the corals. Dont just take my word ............ You can even ask the corals ..........That is if you like dumpster diving :wink:GreshamH":120kakah said:
JT":3s112wt2 said:
And you haven't answered the myriad of people who have asked that you post who YOU represent. You keep bringing up "your company" has done this and that, yet you provide no name. Who CARES what YOU want. You're trying to swing your weight around like you're someone, yet you can't even post who you represent? Put the name of the company you represent out on the line just as you have put TP's name out there. If you're gonna play poker, bring it all to the table or NONE!
edited inflamatory remark.. nm..
Untrue .......Pissoff any one of these people and exporting out of Tonga ........... may well cease. Are you telling me that it was no big deal to you and Steven when in Mexico certain collectors, separate from your guys Spoiled collection for everyone with ties to Mexican live stock? Were all one big happy family ..........Like it or not :wink:
clarionreef
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Kalk,
The business, politics and bribery system in Mexico is actually part of the landscape there and hardly newsworthy anymore. Perhaps it would shock some Americans but its unfortunately pretty matter of fact there.
We suffer from it regularly as competitors do their very worst to trash us and keep us out.
The stories to tell would fill endless pages and posts.
However;
Business warfare and trying to sell more product thru denigrating anothers is not what this forum is for. Masquerading as an eco-arrior while doing the exact same thing, selling the same thing and using "implements" to do the same thing is so transparent and obvious a double standard, it makes one pause in slack jawed incredulity.
The shallower ones environmental integrity the more one wants to use the environment to sell product like Mcdonalds hamburgers...to wit, their "corporate policy on the environment" in a neat little brochure near the cream and sugar.
In America today, we are led to believe...if you believe the hype...that only large companies are environmental as the small ones...even the cleanest ones lack the advertising budget to make it known.
We have a right to speak on the issues and more here then other forums it appears. However, the issues must remain the point and not partially hidden business motives....because if its OK to post business spats here, then it would doom the forum to nasty, viscious chaos.
Business motives, in case you aren't aware, tend to motivate people 100X more then environmental ones.
Why just look how much more popular this thread is then the stunning revelations of the CCIF!
See that? I rest my case.
Steve
The business, politics and bribery system in Mexico is actually part of the landscape there and hardly newsworthy anymore. Perhaps it would shock some Americans but its unfortunately pretty matter of fact there.
We suffer from it regularly as competitors do their very worst to trash us and keep us out.
The stories to tell would fill endless pages and posts.
However;
Business warfare and trying to sell more product thru denigrating anothers is not what this forum is for. Masquerading as an eco-arrior while doing the exact same thing, selling the same thing and using "implements" to do the same thing is so transparent and obvious a double standard, it makes one pause in slack jawed incredulity.
The shallower ones environmental integrity the more one wants to use the environment to sell product like Mcdonalds hamburgers...to wit, their "corporate policy on the environment" in a neat little brochure near the cream and sugar.
In America today, we are led to believe...if you believe the hype...that only large companies are environmental as the small ones...even the cleanest ones lack the advertising budget to make it known.
We have a right to speak on the issues and more here then other forums it appears. However, the issues must remain the point and not partially hidden business motives....because if its OK to post business spats here, then it would doom the forum to nasty, viscious chaos.
Business motives, in case you aren't aware, tend to motivate people 100X more then environmental ones.
Why just look how much more popular this thread is then the stunning revelations of the CCIF!
See that? I rest my case.
Steve
Ok, I was going to post this on ReefCentral but the thread is closed so I'll say it here.
First, I don't have internet access on the weekends. I actually have a life.
I never stated who I work for because it doesn't matter. Things I say online, as has been the case and debated many times since 1995, are of my own opinion. End of story. Just because I make work in the industry doesn't stop me from also being a hobbyist or being disgusted by some of the things this industry does.
I do owe Eddie an apology but only for the way I worded some of my posts, they could have been worded a bit more professional and without the accusatory tone.
My opinions are still valid. From what I know of Tonga, I believe one of the areas he is collecting from is too close to shore and some of the pieces are too large.
I am not going to continue this as it is clear Eddies following is too passionate to allow for a normal conversation to continue.
Gresham, I wasn't "dragging you in" to accuse you of being associated with them. I just wanted to learn more about them out of curiosity more than anything else. Don't take the defensive so fast next time.
- Uncle JT
Disclaimer: Unfortunately because of one paranoid and insecure individual who repeatedly takes offense when I mention his or his company name, I must write this damn disclaimer. However, it is not my place to judge him.. only God can judge him so I must forgive him for his ways. So people, when reading my posts they are of my own opinions and thoughts and NEVER are the same viewpoint of my employer or any other organization I may represent. To threaten someone I work for over something I say here is blasphemy.
First, I don't have internet access on the weekends. I actually have a life.
I never stated who I work for because it doesn't matter. Things I say online, as has been the case and debated many times since 1995, are of my own opinion. End of story. Just because I make work in the industry doesn't stop me from also being a hobbyist or being disgusted by some of the things this industry does.
I do owe Eddie an apology but only for the way I worded some of my posts, they could have been worded a bit more professional and without the accusatory tone.
My opinions are still valid. From what I know of Tonga, I believe one of the areas he is collecting from is too close to shore and some of the pieces are too large.
I am not going to continue this as it is clear Eddies following is too passionate to allow for a normal conversation to continue.
Gresham, I wasn't "dragging you in" to accuse you of being associated with them. I just wanted to learn more about them out of curiosity more than anything else. Don't take the defensive so fast next time.
- Uncle JT
Disclaimer: Unfortunately because of one paranoid and insecure individual who repeatedly takes offense when I mention his or his company name, I must write this damn disclaimer. However, it is not my place to judge him.. only God can judge him so I must forgive him for his ways. So people, when reading my posts they are of my own opinions and thoughts and NEVER are the same viewpoint of my employer or any other organization I may represent. To threaten someone I work for over something I say here is blasphemy.
Defense had to be taken, you were implying that WE as a company (read: commercial trashing by a competitor) were involved in some eco-terrorism WHICH WASN'T TRUE. So, yes, I was defensive. Had you really wanted to know what Steve or I knew about this, YOU COULD HAVE PM'D US, but you didn't, you choose to post it. It's hard not to take it as coming from Fish Heads when you do that and keep posting about "my company" and "the company I work for" (on reefcentral). As I stated, it was known thru out the industry that Eddie was going, you just didn't know
I don't recall implying this. I merely asked: "What do you know about Tropical Paradises collecting trip to Tonga? I am a bit bothered by some of the things I am reading and seeing on their Reef Central post and on Brian's personal website. "GreshamH":xxllkvqg said:
"My company" was mainly used as a reference to back up how I know about how things work in Tonga when people started asking about how I knew these things.
Unfortunately. passions flared too quickly on that thread and replies by me and others were often written in haste. Typical problem with trying to have such discussions on the internet.
- Uncle JT
Disclaimer: Unfortunately because of one paranoid and insecure individual who repeatedly takes offense when I mention his or his company name, I must write this damn disclaimer. However, it is not my place to judge him.. only God can judge him so I must forgive him for his ways. So people, when reading my posts remember that they are of my own opinions and thoughts and NEVER are the same of my employer or any other organization I may represent. To threaten someone I work for because of something I say here is blasphemy.
The topic was already in the public limelight @ RC and I was hoping to get input from industry folks in addition to you and Steve. Plain and simple.GreshamH":1xuoanxa said:
Had Steve replied directly with a simple "Yes, I know them and don't want to comment" or "No, I'm clueless", I would have been satisfied. But no, as usual Steve chooses to reply in a more confrontational stature instead of directly answering the question.
Oh well. This has run it's course and certain people will continue reading more into this than there is. I feel sorry for them.
- Uncle JT
Disclaimer: Unfortunately because of one paranoid and insecure individual who repeatedly takes offense when I mention his or his company name, I must write this damn disclaimer. However, it is not my place to judge him.. only God can judge him so I must forgive him for his ways. So people, when reading my posts remember that they are of my own opinions and thoughts and NEVER are the same of my employer or any other organization I may represent. To threaten someone I work for because of something I say here is blasphemy.
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