article from aussie television

[aquatic ian]

just thought some of you guys might like to see the transcripts to a tv article run here (australia)on tuesday night

its called saving nemo and covers collection of marine ornamentals in vanuatu

not sure if any one knows much about the outfit but ,i would be interested in your comments

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1234026.htm

cheers Ian

 

[jonritteri]

i tranship from there almost every week.is this all true?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Well ........Lets think about the fact that if they can collect 5,000 dollars worth of fish in a single morning and the fish sell for about three to five bucks each . Then there are still a hell of a lot of fish swimming about . The hotel operators have been complaining that collectors have been fishing in front of the hotels [fish are more easily approached in areas the fish daily see humans in the water like hotels beaches] . This does have an effect on the amount of fish tourists see when swimming .{ ALso keep in mind that Australians make up the single largest group of tourists to Vanuatu.} The idea that the islands fish stocks are depleted is silly .......l

 

[Kalkbreath]

Also , the company in question was sold two weeks ago to a Frenchmen.

 

[clarionreef]

Using ultimate retail street value of cocaine is the old method of making the arresting policeman look better .
In journalism and especially environmental reporting of late...facts and figures are also larded w/ fluff to make the 'findings' of the reporter look more dramatic.
Every dealer already knows that half the price of fish is in yet to be relized frieght costs. That value has yet to be incurred on the beach in Vanuatu...nor the cost of their world record gasoline...nor their outrageous electricity costs.
Anyway...there can only be one answer to fluff and phoney journalism and thats fluff and phoney scripted, pre-formatted and choereographed responses from our very own whitewash organizations....
Fighting fraud with fraud...This is where most opinions lie as to the best strategy.
[ fighting fraud with truth?? :lol: yeah right...}
Steve
By the way...as if it matters, the company in question is virtually certified already. Surprising? Of course not silly.
ps#2 Kalk...Bernard is Dutch not French. Perhaps ethnically French but technically Dutch.

 

[clarionreef]

By the way;
The "reporters" estimation of the skill and proficiency of the net-collecting Filipinos employed there made me blush w/ pride.
Net collecting Filipinos are coveted everywhere now...except Indonesia...and their own country.
Steve

 

[Jaime Baquero]

Happy to hear that the trained collectors from IMA, HARIBON/ OVI have the chance of getting well paid jobs somewhere else.

 

[vanuaqua]

Virtually the entire Foreign Correspondent program on the Vanuatu aquarium trade was a fabrication. They came to Vanuatu looking for a controversial story, couldn't find one, so they made one up. The media thinks they can say anything they want and the public will digest it as fact. If anyone wants to know more please e-mail me. I'll be happy to tell you the real story.

 

[sdcfish]

Also,

The gentleman quoted in the article James Armitage is a disgruntled employee who has a long history of debt and bad business dealings within the industry. It's a bad case of sour grapes and also irresponsible journalism as Steve mentions and points out the other faults of the article.

For those of you who see the stocklist every week, and know how the station is run, would know that overcollection is not an issue.

This station is an "A" station. Wanna save reefs and Nemo? Check out www.reefcheck.com or other solid organizations working with local people to improve reefs around the world.

Just my thoughts.

Eric

 

[garagebrian]

Sounds like that article was a bit overdone, but there are plenty of places in the world where overfishing is done for aquarium trade, especially by cyanide. Until reefers and their politicians demand certified net caught fish or, better yet, captive born and raised fish, then there won't be laws protecting the wild fish and reefs.

 

[mkirda]

better yet, captive born and raised fish, then there won't be laws protecting the wild fish and reefs.

Can you please explain to me why you believe this to be true?
How exactly does aquaculture of reef fish lead to protection of the reef and their associated fish/coral?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[naesco]

Sounds like that article was a bit overdone, but there are plenty of places in the world where overfishing is done for aquarium trade, especially by cyanide. Until reefers and their politicians demand certified net caught fish or, better yet, captive born and raised fish, then there won't be laws protecting the wild fish and reefs.

I agree 100%.
If our own governments required certified fish (which will be mandated soon) there would not be a need to rely on weak unenforceable laws in the exporting countries.

 

[Kalkbreath]

There is one key ingredient in any protection ." MONEY" Because money equals motivation. Without money there is no ability to protect. Its funny how usually the people yelling loudest about the need for protection ......Are often those that contribute little to the funds which enable protection. Example would be that group of evil top ten percent tax payers Gore and Kerry liked to knock. Like rich people or not , they pay for 90% of the military and are the reason the USA is able to protect the world. Money is what makes our military what it is . Do you realize what our individual share of the military financial tax burden would be if it was not for rich people? Whats 1/250millionth of the yearly military spending?I like rich people, they pay bills like the defense budget so I dont have to!...On the reefs , Some one on these islands needs to become rich enough to be able to afford to protect the reefs and their wealth must be directly tied to the health of the reefs. Aquaculture and tank raised do little to keep the attention on the health of the actual reefs. Abandoning wild collection is not in the best intrest of the reefs ......improving wild collection and harvest practices are ......

 

[garagebrian]

Kalkbreath,

You do have a very good point that abandoning wild collection will harm the reefs. Money definitely needs to become available to help the reefs. Until some rich people step forward then the situation will continue. Enforcement of regulations and laws is a must as well. There has been some excellent research(I don't remember where I read it) that shows that establishing a marine preserve where NOTHING can be touched quickly repopulates the reserve and greatly enhances the reefs around it and allows for sustainable collection(at appropriate levels of course). The reserves need to be established and protected for this to work.

I still think captive propogation is a great way to relieve stress on wild collection. I also think that if wild collecting is curtailed to sustainable levels, this will drive prices up and make propogation and breeding a much more profitable endeavor. Once there is MONEY in propogation, more people will attempt it and this will lead to innovation and lower prices. That is my hope anyway.

B.

 

[mkirda]

Kalkbreath,

You do have a very good point that abandoning wild collection will harm the reefs. Money definitely needs to become available to help the reefs. Until some rich people step forward then the situation will continue. Enforcement of regulations and laws is a must as well. There has been some excellent research(I don't remember where I read it) that shows that establishing a marine preserve where NOTHING can be touched quickly repopulates the reserve and greatly enhances the reefs around it and allows for sustainable collection(at appropriate levels of course). The reserves need to be established and protected for this to work.

I still think captive propogation is a great way to relieve stress on wild collection. I also think that if wild collecting is curtailed to sustainable levels, this will drive prices up and make propogation and breeding a much more profitable endeavor. Once there is MONEY in propogation, more people will attempt it and this will lead to innovation and lower prices. That is my hope anyway.

B.

B.,

Unfortunately, I think that this is a misplaced hope.

Think about the money flows here. Currently, we have fishermen who work a reef to support their families. You breed fish and sell it to the stores who sell to the hobbyists. The store pays you, the hobbyist pays the store. Absolutely nothing goes back to the reef. In fact, you are actively depriving a fisherman of potential income. This drives them to the very 'turn and burn' tactics that you hope will go away.

I am all for aquaculture, but you do need to also think about how it should be done. NOT in the US, but in the third world, where communities can work collectively to raise fish for a profit and decrease pressures on the reef. The income and money flows need to reside and stay in these countries if you ever want the reefs to actually be protected. Otherwise, aquaculture is actually acting as a destructive force.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[garagebrian]

Mike,

I guess I didn't make myself clear, but I agree with you about the majority of the acquculture needing to be in the third world countries, if the people there see the value in protecting the reefs and acquculturing then it makes the job of enforcement a heck of a lot easier.

But I also think that some acquculture in the US is good too. I like what TBS and other acquaculture facilities are doing in the US. Granted they aren't really doing any "research", but I like they are mining out some rock from dry land and repopulating it as live rock in the ocean. Not only are they able to make a profit, but they are creating a small reef to sustain animals in their aquaculture areas. I think the collection of live rock from fiji and other south pacific locations needs to be slowed or stopped because it takes a long time for that rock to be replaced. This is where efforts like TBS are useful in the US. Even if rock could be mined and deposited in the 3rd world, you still have the issue of transshipping killing off a lot of life on it on the way to US.

B.

 

[naesco]

Please read http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... /short.htm
which I think represents should be done.

Mike your argument only has merit after we as hobbyists are assured that
1. The use of cyanide is a thing of the past
2. There are sustainable area plans in place.

Until than, we are part of the problem if we purchase fish from Indonesia or the Philippines where the use of cyanide is rampant. You cannot justify the continued poisoning of our reefs with cyanide on the basis that the poor fishers need a job.

 

[naesco]

Virtually the entire Foreign Correspondent program on the Vanuatu aquarium trade was a fabrication. They came to Vanuatu looking for a controversial story, couldn't find one, so they made one up. The media thinks they can say anything they want and the public will digest it as fact. If anyone wants to know more please e-mail me. I'll be happy to tell you the real story.

I wouldlike to know more please respond to my two requests for the real story.

 

[Anonymous]

Wayne, vanuaqua is a very busy person, and being that he's only once posted on this forum, what makes you think he monitors what is said here? Someone forwarded this thread to him as so he could respond, which he did. I'll drop him an email informing who you are, what you have done and what your about. With how highly your regarded in the industry, and how connected he is, I bet he'll want to respond to you

 

[naesco]

Wayne, vanuaqua is a very busy person, and being that he's only once posted on this forum, what makes you think he monitors what is said here? Someone forwarded this thread to him as so he could respond, which he did. I'll drop him an email informing who you are, what you have done and what your about. With how highly your regarded in the industry, and how connected he is, I bet he'll want to respond to you

Anything that you can do to remind him of his offer to email anyone interested in the true study would be appreciated.

Thank you sweetheart