New Atlanta etailer

[Pipette]

The hobby, and hobbyists, existed long before the Internet.

Yes, and there is no way I would be able to keep the varieties and species of fish that I keep without the net. I would have to get what limited varieties are available at my local shops. I didn't start collecting rarer fish before the net because I was not able to.

Where did you draw that assumption from?

Because if you had your way, you'd close down all internet retailers, leaving hobbyists such as myself who like to keep rarer species and don't have access to local fish stores with large selections and/or the ability to special order... screwed.

Besides, if all LFSs you so fervenly hate so much

Please do not put words in my mouth. I said my local fish stores are very small and have limited selections because I am not living in a big city. I never said I "fervenly [sic] hate" them.

because there will be few, if any new hobbyists providing fresh blood for the hobby

You are totally missing the point. There are not local fish stores with giant selections located in every small town in America. The stores where I live stock only a small variety of fish because they don't have large local markets.

When it's no longer worth bringing in live fish and supplies, those stores turn into dog food stores.

All of my local fish stores are "pet" stores that sell dog stuff, cat stuff, bird stuff, etc.

Now nobody sees tanks and decides they want one. Where else can they get into the hobby? Public aquariums?

My local stores stock enough to support the local markets.

Yes, because then it becomes "worth it" to order a whole load of other crap because it's a "good deal" and now instead of paying $25 for a fish you're spending $100 on a big load of stuff you didn't really want.

If you are really a retailer, you have a very low opinion of your customers and are also stereotyping them.

Don't tell me you haven't done that in another sector before.

Perhaps once or twice... in retail stores. It is going to local retail stores where people most often spend the extra $100. Online, once they find what they want, they click the "checkout" button.

I am very happy that everyone posting in this thread has great access to a local fish store with a large selection and can have the owner get them rarer fish that they really want. I am not in that situation. Many other people are not as well. You are failing to understand that there are thousands of small towns in America that don't have access to local fish stores with large selections and/or the ability to special order items. You are applying your local market to the entire country.

When you tell me that you wish the only avenue I have to get the fish I like to keep would go away completely, I take that personally.

 

[Rikko]

Where did you draw that assumption from?

Because if you had your way, you'd close down all internet retailers, leaving hobbyists such as myself who like to keep rarer species and don't have access to local fish stores with large selections and/or the ability to special order... screwed.

...

Please do not put words in my mouth.

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.
The rest of your post isn't worth replying to. Read the first thing I said in this thread and stop making ridiculous assumptions.

Or, continue being defensive and making idiotic claims. I'll continue feigning interest.

 

[Pipette]

Pot: kettle. Kettle: pot.

No, I think the e-tailers are taking a respectable slice of the pie.

The rest of your post isn't worth replying to.

Nor is yours.

 

[Anonymous]

The point of the thread wasn't that all etail is bad. I think etail is good for the very reason that Pipette like sit. It has allowed the hobby to expand faster than the brick and mortars could move by being able to take advantage of markets where the customer abse may not be dense enough to support a decent sized specialty store.

However, the point of the thread was that a wholesaler who sells direct to the public is stabbing their clients in the back. In many cases they are competing with their customers for their customers customers. Not only by selling directly to the public but by reducing the amount of nice pieces available to the local shops. If a really nice or rare piece comes in, what incentive does the wholesaler have to sell it at wholesale price to their retail customers, when they could get two or three times that by selling direct on the web? The retail stores are the ones that support the wholesalers day in and day out by buying all the average stuff and they have come to expect the right to the good stuff when it comes in.

As long as an etailer goes through the same channels as I do to get my fish and tanks them himself until they are sold. It's just a different business model. I don't agree with it, but I can see where it makes sense for people like Pippette.

Glenn

 

[Pipette]

 

[JennM]

Yes, because then it becomes "worth it" to order a whole load of other crap because it's a "good deal" and now instead of paying $25 for a fish you're spending $100 on a big load of stuff you didn't really want.
Don't tell me you haven't done that in another sector before. I saw a great deal on a book off Amazon and thought I'd save the ten bucks... Then I saw something else I'd probably like... Then i only needed another 5 bucks on my purchase to get free shipping..... Ad infinitum.

Been there, done that as a hobbyist - saved a few bucks on a test kit or something I really needed, and the screen on the etailer's website conveniently told me at check-out that I could order X more lbs. of merchandise for the same shipping fee, so I bought a bunch of other dry goods I didn't really need, just to sweeten the deal. I probably have some of that stuff left in my attic, 5 years later 8O

I tried the etail fish thing as a hobbyist too - the DOAs (that were dead before the ever left LA ***stink***) left me with one ich-ridden yellow coris wrasse that I ended up paying $40 for with my share of shipping on a pooled order, that would have cost me $22 at a LFS. I'm sure I still have a credit on file someplace for the other 4 organisms that were dead on arrival, but who wants to pay another $25 to get them?

Lessons learned - the hard way.

I'm with Rover - if the etailer has to go through the same channels I do, in order to serve people without access in remote areas, that's one thing - I daresay there are legitimate store fronts who will do that too. But the turn-and-burn wholesalers who are biting the hands that feed them don't impress me much.

Jenn

 

[JeremyR]

In other words:

Corporate conglomerates who DROP SHIP livestock they never see from wholesalers in LA suck. With the rest, your mileage may vary.

The truth is, there will always be people who mail order, and there will always be people who want to see what they are getting before getting it. We cater to people who want to know what they are buying. I have zero respect for fish/coral drop shipping, and little for most home based MO operations.. but like it or not, mail order is here to stay.

 

[Piero]

the points in this thread regarding wholesale operations expanding verticly in the market are valid. however, imo...

- insinuations that online transactions are painful and overly costly in general are just not accurate at all, and show just how unreliably biased and subjective some opinions have becoime...

- "the hobby was here long before the internet" means exactly what? is that supposed to lead into "and the hobby will be here long after the internet is gone" because i got news for ya.... technology isn't a fad. its not goin anywhere...

- "save a couple bucks" seems like just a way to try and downplay the savings of buying online....I've saved and know others who have saved $100s if not $1000s over the years by using the internet for this hobby. and we all know a couple bucks here and there add up to alot of bucks in the long run.

- imo most of the venemous retailors who have nothing nice to say about the internet stores are just bitter because there's more competition and etailors make business more difficult for them.

(removes sugar-coating)that's life. that's business. scream in your pillows all ya want....markets change and evolve. you evolve with them, or you go away.

sure there's bad apples out there in every sector regardless of business model, but enough of this generalizing and pigeon-holing of etailors just because you've got a grudge against your biggest competition....its all starting too look like a bunch of children throwing a tantrum because they can't have the sandbox for themselves.
_________________
economic news

 

[dizzy]

But did you really expect to come to a dealer forum and get sympathy because a wholesaler decides to quit stabbing its main customers in the back? All I can say is dilligaf.

 

[clarionreef]

Question;
Why would a retailer ever buy fish from a wholesaler who allows dropshipping direct to his own customers?
This should ignite a "market correction" and cause that wholesalers primary base of support [ retailers] to slide away.
Left with only e-tailers to support him, he will die off.
Dealers should respond to things like this and turn their anger into action and vote with their buying power.
Tis better to burn down the house of a traitor ...I mean light a candle then to curse the darkness.
Steve

 

[Rikko]

- insinuations that online transactions are painful and overly costly in general are just not accurate at all, and show just how unreliably biased and subjective some opinions have becoime...

Where were this insinuations made? In this thread? I can't find any, maybe I'm skimming where I shouldn't be. The only statements made are that shipping costs are high. And they are. Is that so subjective? It costs more to ship most fish than their actual value is. The only savings come from stacking up to make a major purchase, and like I said before, if you're spending $500 to save $10 on a $40 fish, you need to reevaluate exactly what kind of savings those are.

- "save a couple bucks" seems like just a way to try and downplay the savings of buying online....I've saved and know others who have saved $100s if not $1000s over the years by using the internet for this hobby. and we all know a couple bucks here and there add up to alot of bucks in the long run.

Your local markets must vary. 'Round these parts, there's pitiful markup on any marine stuff and the etailers and mega LFSes (i mean high volume stores, not PetCo kinds of places) aren't selling for more than 5% less on the majority of livestock. Maybe I'm just really bad at business and need to stop trying to compete.

- imo most of the venemous retailors who have nothing nice to say about the internet stores are just bitter because there's more competition and etailors make business more difficult for them.

Duh?

(removes sugar-coating)that's life. that's business. scream in your pillows all ya want....markets change and evolve. you evolve with them, or you go away.

sure there's bad apples out there in every sector regardless of business model, but enough of this generalizing and pigeon-holing of etailors just because you've got a grudge against your biggest competition....its all starting too look like a bunch of children throwing a tantrum because they can't have the sandbox for themselves.

Thanks for the reality check.

 

[Kalkbreath]

Retail stores carry the burden of creating new customers/hobbyists.
Creating the demand for aquarium products is kinda paramount to selling them . Costs associated with high visibility retail space so the public is exposed to the hobby, fruitless hours spent meeting and greeting the public, the majority of which don't take the bait. Online stores then steal customers that the brick and mortar stores are responsible for creating.
Its a horrible business model .

Its kinda like Amway sales people coming to your door , spending hours getting you interested in Amway products .................then having the Amway company bypass the sales force.......selling mailorder Amway products at a lower cost directly to the newly created customer . By passing the people that created an interest in Amway products in the first place.

 

[Anonymous]

Its kinda like Amway sales people coming to your door , spending hours getting you interested in Amway products .................then having the Amway company bypass the sales force.......selling mailorder Amway products at a lower cost directly to the newly created customer . By passing the people that created an interest in Amway products in the first place.

You have too much knowledge of that Kalk

I thought it was a coffee/reef shop, who knew you did beauty supplies as well. Guess on service calls you've got a captive audiance, huh?

 

[Anonymous]

I do agree fully with what you said though. Very accurate! Bring em in so the Dr's can knock em down

 

[Anonymous]

Retail stores carry the burden of creating new customers/hobbyists.
Creating the demand for aquarium products is kinda paramount to selling them . Costs associated with high visibility retail space so the public is exposed to the hobby, fruitless hours spent meeting and greeting the public, the majority of which don't take the bait. Online stores then steal customers that the brick and mortar stores are responsible for creating.
Its a horrible business model .

Its kinda like Amway sales people coming to your door , spending hours getting you interested in Amway products .................then having the Amway company bypass the sales force.......selling mailorder Amway products at a lower cost directly to the newly created customer . By passing the people that created an interest in Amway products in the first place.

/playing devil's advocate

So why wouldn't the retail stores expand into etail? If the cornerstone of successful retailing is in multiple locations and consistently expaning customer base, why wouldn't it make sense for a store to take advantage of an expansion at next to no increased overhead? Why sit back and let others take the hobby into the more rural areas?

 

[dizzy]

I believe JeremyR has done that. Seems like it is a low percentage of his sales. If you have to lower profit margin on 99% of the sales you already had to gain 1% more volume it could well be a losing proposition. How is working out Jeremy?
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

I believe JeremyR has done that. Seems like it is a low percentage of his sales. If you have to lower profit margin on 99% of the sales you already had to gain 1% more volume it could well be a losing proposition. How is working out Jeremy?
Mitch

He stated in the chatroom the other day that internet sales were a whopping 2% of his business.

I don't think paying someone to pimp the net stuff fulltime (which I believe is required to make i-net sales a larger profit for your business) is worth it.

Peace,

Chip

 

[JeremyR]

Yeah, there are a few things we sell online that we can be competitive in pricing on. I've never wanted to sell fish online. Corals would be doable, but as chip said, it's a full time job and I already have one of those. I'm probably going to downsize our online page to cover product areas that we sell regularly that won't take alot of time or overhead for us to run. If I followed the superstore LFS/MO joint mentality, it would be different. Sometimes in life you can do one thing properly, or you can do a few things mediocre.. mediocre may pay the bills, but in dealing with live animals it wouldn't let me sleep at night. That doesn't mean there can't be a dual online/LFS that does quality on both sides.. but it's difficult and rare.

 

[Anonymous]

because there will be few, if any new hobbyists providing fresh blood for the hobby

You are totally missing the point. There are not local fish stores with giant selections located in every small town in America. The stores where I live stock only a small variety of fish because they don't have large local markets.

I am very happy that everyone posting in this thread has great access to a local fish store with a large selection and can have the owner get them rarer fish that they really want. I am not in that situation. Many other people are not as well. You are failing to understand that there are thousands of small towns in America that don't have access to local fish stores with large selections and/or the ability to special order items. You are applying your local market to the entire country.

Lawdy lawdy, I am so late on this discussion.

Pipette, hobbiest to hobbiest, I feel your pain. But I got to say your jumping on the wrong guys/gals here. The folk here ARE the lfs and 2 of them (that I know of) are wholesalers.

You need to be all over your lfs. If their not willing to order what you want, then you need to find another place to go. And before you jump on me about that statement, I have done just that. I drive HUNDREDS of miles and tons of hours, just to get to the lfs that DO have and are willing to get me what I want. (Mitch, did you ever get my sea hares?).

And yes, I've done the e-tail thing. Purchased something I didn't need, just to get the lower or free shipping cost. I've also had my fair share of DOA's from online vendors. Which I never got replaced, because I didn't want to have to pay for shipping twice, and I shouldn't have to, too.

Aquariumstuffers.com prices weren't all that sweet to begin with, and not a big lose for the industry. Maybe it made some hobbiests unhappy, but truthfully there are much better online vendors out there.

Just a thought.....What would happen if Apet or Seagrest decided to etail?

 

[JeremyR]

Just a thought.....What would happen if Apet or Seagrest decided to etail?

Heh. Yuk. Petco probably wouldn't stand for it.