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coralfarmin

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I said a diver with no tanks(i had tanks in florida and nets & a slurp gun)..not all even have compressors we are talking islanders that have no money at all, one with a compressor would have money and people working under them in most cases, most dont to my knowledge
some dont even have googles expecialy indo coral divers.
I dont want to give the impression I am debating you because you are right about nets being the best way..but not the most productive to the poor islanders pocket
 

clarionreef

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understood,
But cyanide cost more then mask, nets, decompression bucket etc.
If the question is...
' How is an untrained, unequipped diver supposed to work if cyanide is all he has....."
Answer; How did he get the expensive cyanide?
If his buyer supplied the real tools and nets, all would be fine. But the buyer has often been the agent of corruption in his finance and provision of the juice. He in turn often gets it or financing for it from the very exporters speaking English to US importers every day.
This 'broker' had traditionally controlled divers thru dependancy, debt and dope supply. He is the traitor here and the one who ruined a generation or two of divers that would have easily gone along wih a gentler technology.
Cyanide or starvation was always a false choice.
Its fishing...or starvation. Since when was cyanide the only way to catch fish? Poor fisherman in Sri Lanka and Fiji...Mexico and Tonga have never seen cyanide.
Never was needed but it was pushed on the divers and thought efficient by non divers. It fooled a lot of people for a long time.
Steve
 

coralfarmin

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thats what I said previously that they have to buy cynide over and over and over and over .....cause it works for them
mabey they get it the same way the rice farmers in other countries get fertilizer THEY DONT EVEN NEED(credit) since it is washed right out into the ocean to destroy way more reefs than our hobby,by huge rains..the ground is already so fertile they dont even need it but are to niave to know better
 

clarionreef

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Yes,
But many people in many places 'don't know better'....thats why there are mayors, police forces and fishery offices in nearly every town.
I lived in very small towns in the Philippines and they all had educated folks who' knew better'.
Most societies have self-correcting mechanisms to prevent counter productive social pathologies. Under the dictator Marcos....these broke down in so many areas as the whistle-blowers or reformers would get threatened and punished.
With this monster gone now for many years, its time to join a society where things start to work again.
Steve
 

IslandDiver

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Waterplanet said:
Do people who make suffer 1000's of animals(fish) go to hell?

We are all part of the ecosystem.

"for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
-- Genesis 3: 17-19 (KJV)

Just for insurance, I have made sure that my body, less any useable organs to help othere, shall be returned intact to the ocean from whish I have recieved so much.

I eat the fish, and the fish eat my body...seem fair, no hell.

D
 

coralfarmin

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QM yes.
ID I just told my wife the same thing the other day.."return my ashes to the ocean"and dont waste any money on a funeral when the time comes ,save it for my daughters and herself.
But if she decides she wants to be buried and goes before me I will reside next to her in a hole in the ground,with embolming fluid in my body :(
 

coralfarmin

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oh you said your body intact...I dont think that is legal.
You had better get someone to make you some cement shoes from 5 gal buckets,Id hate my kids to find your chewed up body on the shore :D
 

IslandDiver

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Burial at sea of human remains that are not cremated can be accomplished, but it is often a lengthy and expensive process. Regulations require burials of this nature to be made at a specific depth in the sea. The casket must be specially prepared to insure that it quickly descends to the ocean floor and remains there. It must also be secured according to strict regulations.

It's been done for thousands of years, don't worry the body stays where it was sent.

D
 

mkirda

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naesco":1xfoy8gg said:
Eating fish is ok though unless of course they are tangs.

How is eating a tang any different than eating a grouper?

Enlighten us.

Both are delicious!
 

mkirda

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cortez marine":3hmti2bf said:
' How is an untrained, unequipped diver supposed to work if cyanide is all he has....."
Answer; How did he get the expensive cyanide?
If his buyer supplied the real tools and nets, all would be fine. But the buyer has often been the agent of corruption in his finance and provision of the juice. He in turn often gets it or financing for it from the very exporters speaking English to US importers every day.
{snip}
Never was needed but it was pushed on the divers and thought efficient by non divers. It fooled a lot of people for a long time.
Steve

Steve,

Not that I am disagreeing.

Cyanide is a great leveler. Any person who can hold their breath and swim underwater can capture fish using a squirtbottle. It requires literally no skill. Let me take that back slightly- The only skill required is learning how to have a light touch, as in how much to use. Other than that, any one of us white-skinned city folk could master 'the skill' easily.

Capturing fish with nets is really a learned skill. It requires time, patience and a lot of effort. Wet water time, in other words. Do you think you could train me to catch blueface in just a couple of dives? I doubt it, even though I am a relatively quick learner. It would take me dozens of dives to learn the fish and their behaviors - to know what the fish will do before the fish know it. Once I get to that point, I would already be skilled.

It isn't that net fishing can't be done, nor that it can't be more efficient than cyanide. But it will all depend upon the skill of the person using the nets. Some people will never get the hang of it. Others may get really good at catching some species, but fail utterly in learning how to catch others. They learn one technique, but no others. Ferdie told me about one fisherman who was great at catching a single species- he could clean off an entire reef. But that was about the only thing he could catch as he could never master any other technique.

I would posit that if you took ten guys and trained them equally, not all ten would be more efficient than a modestly skilled cyanide user. Some number would consistently catch less, just because they didn't get it. I can't juggle for crap even when I tried to learn in my youth. I understood what I was supposed to do, but just never could get the hang of it. I imagine that net fishing could be similar in that way. There will be people that could vacuum a reef with nets, while others couldn't catch a fish if it were the sole object in an small aquarium.

Anyway, my point is pretty simple here - I believe you are mostly correct, but I also think that some people will never be able to master nets and will go back to cyanide (if it were an option) because it is more efficient for them. Not that that makes it right.

Regards.
Mike Kirda
 

clarionreef

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Absolutely right Mike,
But in every line of work on the planet we have this point....some have aptitude for farming, boat handling, basket weaving, math and some don't for example. Those that don't need to seek other work.

In Mexico they say...what do you call a guy that can't fish? answer...a goat herder.

Not everyone belongs in the water.
If the question is...how can we teach a guy with no aptitude for anything, advanced A.D.D. and no attention span to catch fish to collect fish nicely....there is only one answer for him...private attention and tutoring on the side of the training programs that were all scuttled.
Steve
This is the guy who the training idea was to reach out to. Afterall, if he can't learn what so many other fisherman can....you know his fish will suffer from other issues as well. Dysfunctionals in business go bankrupt and get weeded out. Dysfunctionals in fishing are in every village in every country. Thank goodness they are a minority.
 

clarionreef

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If the observation is...how did it come to this...how does this situation still exist after 20 years of reform investment...there is no forum anywhere that has covered that like RDO here.
Steve
 

naesco

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mkirda":14h77iy5 said:
naesco":14h77iy5 said:
Eating fish is ok though unless of course they are tangs.

How is eating a tang any different than eating a grouper?

Enlighten us.

Look at their eyes. Compare a tangs to a grouper.
A tang is friendly, alert, intelligent.
A grouper reeks with 'eat me' Everybody know that.
 

naesco

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coralfarmin":2lcj027u said:
naesco
Tell me you are using suddle humor, & not serious

I have to admit there is some seriousness in what I am posting. Do you think that that is wrong?
 

clarionreef

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Tangs are bovine....dumb, erratic, hysterical and easy to catch....if you miss em, wait a few minutes and they'll forget what happened.

Groupers more like veloceraptors or coyotes...light years more intelligent.
You miss a shot at collecting a miniatus grouper and its over. Just move on.
Steve
 

Kalkbreath

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Dont they say that people pick pets that most closely match their own personal traits? :P
Tangs are bovine....dumb, erratic, hysterical and easy to catch....if you miss em, wait a few minutes and they'll forget what happened.
How many tang lovers do we have in the audience tonight? :P
 

coralfarmin

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naesco
I would be worried if I were your wife
but since I dont sleep with you and your tangs LOL you can think what you feel without me passing judgement....though if you want my honest "opinion" its crazy..all fish are dumb if you ask me ..they live to breed and eat and become food for something bigger than them

everything they do is just instinct

We collect them for our adorement...this is what seperates us from cromagnon men ,they were like fish..they lived on instinct
 

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