Coral Mariculture in Tonga

[bookfish]

I didn't quite know what was going on as I'm new here.
FWIW, I very much value arguing an issue from both sides as a test for flaws and weak spots. Usually however, that's a bit into the development process.-Jim

 

[mkirda]

I didn't quite know what was going on as I'm new here.
FWIW, I very much value arguing an issue from both sides as a test for flaws and weak spots. Usually however, that's a bit into the development process.-Jim

Hint #1: Don't get into an argument with Kalk.

Save yourself the grief.

That said, the occasional nugget does occasionally get typed by someone purporting to be Kalk. I'm not sure it is the same guy though... :wink:

Once you get into the point of having something to test for weak spot, give me a PM. I'll be happy to look it over.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

...and I in turn would be happy to proof read Mikes stuff!
editing for the editor?
Steve

 

[clarionreef]

Posted: 19 Jun 2005 01:16 Post subject:

----Kalk Wrote,

Picture this ............ In the Maldives Islands they made a jumbo jet airport in what was open water. Not only did they bury the existing live reefs........but they also dredged the surrounding reefs to form a new island several square miles in size in which they now could land tourist planes like 727 jumbo jets.
To form the island air strip they used more live coral then our hobby will ever in a thousand years. How much coral and live rock does it take to form a pile twenty feet tall, one mile wide and two miles long?
For comparison , you can fit all the coral imported each year into the USA inside two Walmart tractor trailers. {With out the water and boxes }
Yet coral export fro Maldives is not permitted

Hes right of course.
It doesn't matter who tells the truth does it? Whats more worthy?
Truth spoken by a child...or a lie by a king....
Or do we only take truth from people we like socially?

Kalk may often minimize eco-destruction by our trade and yet I find it far more destructive to hear the new eco-corporate types minimize fisherfolk and human beings in their search for remedies to suit their narrow sensitivities... and skill sets.
Steve

 

[mkirda]

...and I in turn would be happy to proof read Mikes stuff!
editing for the editor?
Steve

As most of what I have been writing recently has been concerning our IT budget, I'm sure your eyes would start looking glazed very quickly...

Thanks for the offer though! Heh, heh, heh.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[clarionreef]

Mr Limpet...ie 'Bookfish' wrote;
"I very much value arguing an issue from both sides as a test for flaws and weak spots..."
Wonderful!

Overheard in the movie Jerry Mcguire....

'"Jerry, you think we're fight'n just when I thought we're starting to communicate."
Steve

Exactly....if everyone stays less brittle and a bit tougher skinned, we won't stop the match every time a leftist jab is thrown. :lol:
Here here for the Constitutions greatest 'loop-hole..'freedom of speech.

The only punishment for exercising it in the defense of the environment is..."You won't get a Packard grant that way"....

 

[mkirda]

Hes right of course.
It doesn't matter who tells the truth does it? Whats more worthy?
Truth spoken by a child...or a lie by a king....
Or do we only take truth from people we like socially?

Steve,

You of all people can understand the inherent contradiction of the trade.
You have seen destruction on a massive scale, done by the trade, for the trade. This destructive power cannot be whitewashed over as it is fact.

Comparing this destructive plunder-for-profit to the government-approved tourist infrastructure development is crazy. It is destructive only to the trade, and is as puerile as the teenager argument "But Dad, everyone is doing it!"...

Yes, building an island where one did not exist is destructive. Yes, it used a lot of coral rubble and sediment. Christ, the Maldives are a bunch of freakin' ATOLLS! It isn't like they can blow up the mountains and bring the rubble down to the water front. This ain't Japan... (And I don't exactly hear much about the airport they built in Hong Kong where a mountain was leveled and an entire bay was filled in.) Could the reason why the Maldives does not allow coral collection possibly be due to the problems with El Nino-induced bleaching, where many of the reefs experienced losses of 90%? And this atoll in the Maldives... Looking at a map, I count either 21 or 22 separate atolls, depending on how you draw the lines. So one airport built on one atoll with localized reef destruction for tourist development is worse than the nearly nationwide reef degradation in the Philippines, a land of 7,100 islands?

Call me crazy, but the destructive methods used and the over-fishing pressure in the Philippines alone is worse than one airport built on one atoll.

Kalk may often minimize eco-destruction by our trade and yet I find it far more destructive to hear the new eco-corporate types minimize fisherfolk and human beings in their search for remedies to suit their narrow sensitivities... and skill sets.
Steve

Minimizing the damage by the trade does it a disservice. Acknowleging the damage is the first step in figuring out how to reverse it. The knowledge base is there. We've just been want to apply it, mostly because it is going to force some people to change.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[bookfish]

I'm actually going to sit back a bit and listen to the voices of people who have far more, and more direct experience in this.
I'll jump in if I think I have anything to add.-Jim (Mr. "L")

 

[Kalkbreath]

Hey, Mike ever find a photo of all that so called wide spread destruction by the trade? like you promised us three years ago?
Thought not. But it sure gets peoples attention/donations now doesn't it! Maybe you could drum up those photos from your week long trip in the Philippines.....you still remember dont you? The time you spent day after day attempting to find cyanide damage but only found a few eel holes!
{And one world war two blast area.}
Its odd that something so vast can be so elusive!
:wink:

 

[bookfish]

I strongly encourage everyone to be respectful in their posts.
It's entirely fair to ask anything but please respect all of us on this forum.
thx-Jim

 

[mkirda]

Let me edit this...

You want to discuss this further, open up a new topic.

Jenn is right - this shouldn't be done under a discussion on TONGA.

Mike

 

[bookfish]

This gives me a chance to say that I appreciate it when everyone attempts to keep themselves on topic.
Sometimes I'm doing other things, the discussions move quickly and I miss the opportunity to jump in and point this out.-Jim

 

[Anonymous]

Recently these same people are claiming that Tonga would be a nice place to set up Guardianship.
Again I ask for proof that the current systems need improvement?

Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but who is saying that Tonga needs Guardianship?

 

[Kalkbreath]

Recently these same people are claiming that Tonga would be a nice place to set up Guardianship.
Again I ask for proof that the current systems need improvement?

Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but who is saying that Tonga needs Guardianship?

Several organizations have recently been on the island talking with the powers that be. There have been no direct outcries from environmental groups {and rightly so}...........only the self appointed organizations wanting to get their paws wet.
I feel these organizations should have to prove the need for their involvement.


I will let you all have the last word , whilst I crawl back under my rock.

 

[mkirda]

Several organizations have recently been on the island talking with the powers that be.

Why not name their names?
Why the smoke and mirrors and skullduggery?

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[bookfish]

This is a thread about coral farming in Tonga.
If you have something to say about a different topic or place please start a new thread.
This is not directed towards any one person and the example above is just that, an example.
I'm guilty of doing the same thing sometimes so I know it's hard to keep it on-topic.
Thanks-Jim

 

[PeterIMA]

Please move all of the previous discussion in this thread pertaining to cyanide fishing in PI to a new thread.

Peter Rubec

 

[bookfish]

Sorry, full-time acctg. limits my weekday time.-Jim

 

[mkirda]

Sorry, full-time acctg. limits my weekday time.-Jim

Dang job cuts into my hobby time too...


Mike

 

[clarionreef]

I find the fish thing cuts down on hobby time....which sure isn't fishkeeping.
Fish, fish, fish....24/7.
For me. ..hobbies are a welcome escape from dealing in marinelife, which is serious business.
Steve