On becoming a wholesaler...

[mkirda]

Since the thread got locked, and something needed to get responded to, opened a new thread...

Corfarmin said "Actualy now with the upcoming price hikes and limited cargo space out of Bali for fish and other problems that come with imported livestock from Indo as well as things that may limit their avalibility in the future, at this point imo localized propagation is the best business to lean toward imo "

For what purposes, exactly?

If the intention is to help save the reefs, then you would be acting as an agent of reef destruction, Coralfarmin.

US-based aquaculture does NOTHING to help the reefs in the entire Indo-Pacific arc. In fact, it takes money out of the hands of the fishermen/collectors that rely upon this trade to make a living. What they see is how you preach the word, but act the exact opposite.

If the fishermen who do collect in ways that don't harm the reef can no longer earn a living catching/collecting marine ornamentals, the only options open to them are to move entirely to food fishing and/or destructive methods to improve their yields.

Make the connection, Coralfarmin, between your actions and the consequences.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[JT]

IMFO

Righty locked the thread cause he has a personal vendetta against me. Righty and his sidekick Lefty have always been against those speaking out when people who are doing it wrong are involved.

But he'll probably lock this thread for me stating my "opinion" again. You'll have to open another thread Mike.

Coralfarmin has been wasting bandwidth in this forum for the past 3 years. He's "thought of" one scheme after another to try and get in business in the industry yet has never pulled the trigger on any one. Reading Calfo's book as religion isn't the key to the holy grail of husbandry and coral farming.

Don't hate me cause I'm passionate about the future of this hobby and I speak out and don't coddle those who are better off whipped instead.

- UncleJT
Hated and misunderstood by many.

 

[bookfish]

If you have a thing going w/ Righty or Lefty that's one thing but it doesn't need to be addressed in this way in this thread. Also, being passionate doesn't necessarily mean being angry.FWIW.-Jim

 

[JennM]

Respectfully, Bookfish, I invite you to peruse the archives for posts from "coralfarmin" and also "eddie". Coralfarmin is the poster formerly known as eddie.

This individual has indeed been around for several years, and while you may find jt's assessment somewhat blunt, it's true.

I've spent countless keystrokes *trying* to be patient, albeit direct (and polite) with him but he just doesn't get it.

I've finally given up out of sheer frustration - one of the last threads I responded to him in, finally got locked. Eddie seems to inspire ire after a time of asking the same questions - when he doesn't like the answers he asks again and again as if our answers will change.

Time and time again we've suggested that he take work in the industry and learn that way. Nope, he won't have that. He's gone on ad nauseum about bypassing the hobbyist and going etail, to those of us with brick and mortar stores we're not exactly willing to give away information to someone who would presume to cut in on our business.

Like I said - read the archives. The fact that any of us are still civil at all is pretty amazing.

As for his becoming a wholesaler thread - nobody replied to it for at least a few days after it was posted - speaking for myself, I read it and found that I didn't have anything nice to say, so I kept my mouth shut. I suspect a few other tired souls were tired of repeating the same stuff over and over to somebody who seems more interested in trolling, than actually taking the advice received.

Once the thread became active, that's when the fun began once again.

I cannot address any perceived personality conflict between posters/moderators here, but speaking as one who has wasted a ton of keystrokes on Coralfarmin/Eddie, I don't think a bit of haste/anger is out of line at this point. The guy simply does NOT listen, and I'm not even sure why he even asks. Perhaps he does it to get a rise out of people, or perhaps he's really that dim. I don't know but I don't answer his questions directly anymore, and perhaps more of us should just learn to ignore him.

Just *my* humble opinion.

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

lol to the rest

Mike you may be right as alot have stated the same. What can one do in a world where everything is based on the price of a barrel of crude oil though, gas prices have about doubled in Bali I hear, and cargo space is limited due to the recent bombing. Problems like this are getting worse and not better.
I was simply stating that at this point, far as a investors stand point, localized propagation seems to be the best investment. Not to mention the fact that there are limited certified caught fish and that is out of mosts control.
I would love to wholesale all certified caught fish and maricultured coral, but I can not regulate the supply or predict future cargo space problems from Indo or other destinations. Of even these.

Jt- mabey its just cause you are crude...sometimes. I doubt it was personal

 

[coralfarmin]

Mike also I hear this major flu strain is in Jakarta..one key source of coral, wont this also affect the industry ?

I am definantly pro reef protection, but would not go as far to say that I would put all my eggs in someone elses basket..which is what one has to do imo when they depend on someone else, I can easly aquire all the livesock needed to start a farm from sources never even mentioned here.

Though some would argue the point that local farms do infact protect reefs and even use this point to promote their business, I do realize that it does nothing to help islanders....is there really any help for them say 15 years from now? obviously that was a retorical question....who would pay the prices needed to compensate shipping cost when in competition with local farms

I would buy all certified fish and maricultured coral...if endusers would buy them at the prices needed by retailers based on the reef protectors set prices...but fact is imo the market niche at this point is small, and alot of work needs to be done to reform hobbiests before any major revenue is seen by islanders, I can buy a full size acro cheaper than a maricultured from Solomon or Tonga. This is just fact....what good is all the work done on island based farms if you are banking on hobbiests to make the step toward reform.....or banking on wild import bans.

at this point I can state as fact "imo" I can sell a full size acro cheaper/easier than a maricultured...and no that does not make me happy

 

[coralfarmin]

rewording that...I can buy a full size acro from solomon or tonga or jakarta cheaper than a maricultured from central java or other "already" distributing sources

 

[bookfish]

JennM, thank you for your response and i understand your points. I agree that if we feel someone is a waste of our time we should just not reply and they will eventually go away. I was actually not referring to JT's comments about CF but his comments about Righty/Lefty. -Jim

 

[coralfarmin]

bookfish of course ....you don't like to hear the facts as stated imo when you have a agenda of your own ....if you dont have anything possitive to input why input at all...so what, if I am not as smart as some here think they are ...about the industry, or if I ask questions out of curiosity and am curious how people will respond...fact is I buy from sources not ever even mentioned here and can sell coral at about wholesale price "or cheaper" retail...though I dont understand that and dont really like to do it "I can"
I dont need all the stress of a store or even the income, I just love coral propagation and coral...and have not had much trouble retailing them with little effort

 

[coralfarmin]

here is a example of a premium brain I just shipped to NJ ...price to enduser for coral $20

though almost every enduser who has dealt with me are repeat customers and I have yet to have even one disatisfied customer

I still feel bad that these are wild collected coral

but who can compete with the prices that the exporters are giving the low overhead transshippers...All I have to do is set up a large enough facility for holding and I can sell retail at wholesale price"large scale" though this does not make me happy or even seem real...I have the right connections I quess,
the type static this would bring is so predictable here

 

[mkirda]

here is a example of a premium brain I just shipped to NJ ...price to enduser for coral $20

though almost every enduser who has dealt with me are repeat customers and I have yet to have even one disatisfied customer

I still feel bad that these are wild collected coral

but who can compete with the prices that the exporters are giving the low overhead transshippers...All I have to do is set up a large enough facility for holding and I can sell retail at wholesale price"large scale" though this does not make me happy or even seem real...I have the right connections I quess,
the type static this would bring is so predictable here

The reason why you get static is because that business model is not sustainable. You don't need the income, so you sell things at cost. Goody for you, but bad for the rest of the industry, including the hobbyist. Do you realize what will eventually happen? Have you thought about your actions and their consequences?

What sucks is that I have given you enough information already - things that should give you pause. Your responses make me realize that Jenn is utterly and completely right here. You don't pay attention to the information freely given to you.

A hobbyist that brings in livestock and sells at wholesale prices is doing him\herself a disservice, is doing the industry a disservice and is harming the hobby as a whole. Take your actions, multiply them, then run them out to their logical conclusion, Coralfarmin. The somewhat scary fact that you don't understand where Bali is in relation to Jakarta compounds my apprehension here.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

 

[JennM]

Exactly, Mike. To quote the old Simon and Garfunkel song, "A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....hmmmmm mmmm mmmm...."

It's all about cheaper... isn't it?

He still feels bad about it being wild collected coral, but not bad enough to stop buying it and blowing it out at bargain-basement prices

Whatever.......

Jenn

 

[coralfarmin]

actualy mike that is not at cost, for a business to be a business it must turn profit...I hate to even say how much they cost me on this board after all my costs...but it is still a decent markup at $20...if I took the advice here about transshipping I would never have tried it..fact is I tried the $600- 800 2 box orders from the wholesalers and my transshipments were alot cheaper and better..despite the fact that I was told not to transship with a connection, though I have several times without problems

I dont need the income of a store or the stress, so what...all jenn talks about is brick and mortar on a board sponsored by mostly online vendors..I'd like to have my business located on property I own ...so what

I can get coral at about the cost of the wholesaler and mark up to their prices and still turn profit...I buy from a good source...I do not feel comfortable with over 100% markup.It is alot cheaper to live here on the east coast than LA so my financial needs are not as great either..so what

Fact is there are alot of retailers that sell at the same prices

 

[coralfarmin]

This is why I want to sell wholesale instead to pet shops and online vendors..since there is a great need for a eastcoast supplier with a great coral selection imo, and now with my new location to ship to that is half as far as my old location at RDU I can bring in even more cheaper.I dont want to have to sell retail and wholesale which is even worse than selling retail at wholesale price imo. Problem I see growing is that retailers are selling on ebay and their sites at La wholesale cost..they must also be transshiping..which is what alot of wholesalers do with alot higher overhead
So far with my retail clients ,that recieves my import lists when I do, I have not had to do much...since they tell me what they want before I even order it, then I bring it in at no obligation to them till they see it...this has proven to be a good method for me..I even get referals

I am just outling the facts that I see imo about why things are the way they are...and yes it is about the lowest price for quality in the real world imo...this is why I agree with Kalk about the problems that mariculturests have upcoming..as well I spoke for atleast a hr with one on the phone.

It is hard to market these maricultured frags imo they just cost to much.And the niche is small of hobbiests that even know mariculture and cyanide problems even exist

btw..this is also a problem I see growing with drygoods, you can buy them at almost wholesale retail...this is just fact imo in the real world today
I can spend a fortune on the best facilicty money can buy...to distribute all maricultured products but that does not mean anyone will buy them at this point in time imo

Though I think they should, you can only supply the demand

btw what do you mean not knowing the relation between bali and jakarta...I heard jakarta is one place where this killer flu is that is all over the news...bali is where the bombing happend and they are limiting flights acording to my importer out of bali...jakarta is also in Indo..and gas has doubled in Indo I hear....bail is great for fish shipments and jakarta for cheap coral

 

[coralfarmin]

double post

 

[coralfarmin]

btw no I have never been to either..but was going to work on buying direct from a exporter in Bali...and have figured out how to do it even through a importer that I known

but this was mainly for fish, and I would have so many I would need to wholesale them.

 

[JT]

You keep missing the point, you just don't get it.

 

[coralfarmin]

no I dont get why a LFS worker can think they know everything about the industry just cause they worked at a wholesaler also...or be able understand why someone would want to have a business on there own property and spare the stress of a storefront on their family...so they can have more time for them instead of being a slave to a store they dont even own

stuff like that would put stress on family life I'd think..but hey what do I know since I never had a store...but have seen it happen

I even have the chance to operate a store that a guy I know will be setting up as a second location...I just dont want to...I'd rather be right here with the wife and kids..like they want, instead of at the store all weekend
keep in mind my childern are 3 and 10 months...so time with them is more important to me than renting a bunch of brick and mortar.And marking up fish food 400% to pay the light bill

 

[coralfarmin]

mike enough info for what...to be aginst people like,Drmac, Treeman,Dick Perrin,ORA,Harbor Aquatics,Scuba Dude Anthony Calfo and others that love inland farming

that will never happen, since I want my own farm also..because of them

Though I would love to sell ALL maricultured products and certified fish, I am afraid I would starve trying If I depended on hobbiests to reform in the next 3 years...fact is way over half I have dealt with never even heard of this board

I do see your point , but it is like expecting world peace imo..it wont happen no time soon

I would stop dealing with wild importers if that was actualy rational, but fact is it is not at this point. Id end up with about 30-40 boxs of maricultured frags and a market for about 2 boxs.imo

I am not gonna give up on trying to explain about reform to hobbiests I encounter but when they see a frag for the price of a colony..it is a no brainer to them imo

Hopefuly Mike Kings DVDs will help show them the light, I hope he floods ebay with them in the Live Coral search..but this would only scratch the surface imo

also captive raised frags US based are actualy grown in artifical water and current and even light if not in a greenhouse ...alot of maricultured are grown in the ocean just like a wild so they are not as hardy imo as some US farmed..this is also a big deal for alot of hobbiests I have seen and mariculter cant offer that imo.

 

[Anonymous]

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