ABSOLUTLY DISGUSTING!!!!

[FragMaster]

I know what ya said and what ya ment.
I just dont think they are with in the law here.
They are not only raping the reef, but defrauding the FLoirda WCC
By exploiting thier comercial collectors liscens for dual Possibly triple use.
1: as a charter for hire.
2: as a leasure boat.
3: using it to allow any one on board at the time to collect what ever.
They have to be registered by name on that liscense (I think?) As a crew member or at the very least it should be illegal for them to have an entirely "new" crew every trip.


THERE ARE limits to what you can take comercialy and limits to what you can take with a leasure liscense.
think about it man? If there were no limits you would never see another piece of live coral in anyoceaninany part of the world again, twoyears after such a lieniant permit was given.

 

[Anonymous]

Um, FragMaster, in your own words:

I sell these rics to pay for my hobby period. I have no website, store front Or business liscense of any kind. When I get my rics I get them from a VERY good friend that I have known for more than 20 years who works for
This guy: http://members.aol.com/tscaturro/Main.html
Who is fully liscened and legal. If you dont believe me ask him.

Buying corals from a wholesaler, through a friend or not, and then selling those corals for profit makes you a retailer, at least from where I'm sitting. One that would require a business license and reporting of income to the IRS. As far as I'm aware. I'm not a tax lawyer.

Can you explain your business practices to us, and why you feel it isn't necessary to report your income from the ricordeas you sell?

 

[Anonymous]

Also, does anyone know the actual legal quota for ricordea floridae collecting?

Hi, here are the bag limits. Corallimorpharia are listed under Anemones.

http://myfwc.com/marine/recreational/recharvestmls.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Also, R. florida used to be incredibly abundant, almost carpeting, a few decades ago. This observation is from a collection of people who know more about and have seen more of Florida's reefs than any of you probably ever will.

 

[Anonymous]

Also, R. florida used to be incredibly abundant, almost carpeting, a few decades ago. This observation is from a collection of people who know more about and have seen more of Florida's reefs than any of you probably ever will.

Well I've seen more bald spots than you probably ever will. So there.

 

[bookfish]

Wake up!!!!!
Don't you understand what Frag is saying!!!!! :roll:

When you have losers in the industry it impacts on all of you in the industry!

Stand up and be counted! When there is a wrong, right it!!!


Bookfish posted
"Frankly, that's a fair characterization of the history of our industry. I think that you should immediately report them to Florida fish and game, if all you are saying is true, which has far more impact than posting on RDO."

Bookfish, moderate!

Ok, Naesco, how about this.
I'm not sure anything illegal, immoral or unethical is being done by ricordeas.net.
As I said earlier I think the tone of their ad is unfortunate.
However I have always been unconvinced by yelling or berating but instead by a rational presentation of facts. I don't like unproven accusations and won't take part in a witch hunt unless I'm personally convinced it is just. Nothing I've seen posted on this issue has convinced me in any way. How's that for moderate.-Jim

 

[bookfish]

Fragmaster wrote:
"I just dont think they are with in the law here.
They are not only raping the reef, but defrauding the FLoirda WCC
By exploiting thier comercial collectors liscens for dual Possibly triple use.
1: as a charter for hire.
2: as a leasure boat.
3: using it to allow any one on board at the time to collect what ever.
They have to be registered by name on that liscense (I think?) As a crew member or at the very least it should be illegal for them to have an entirely "new" crew every trip. "

So this is speculation anyway. BTW, I was in Florida when a vast amount of the previously plentiful ricordea was has harvested to scarcity. I would be the first to support a very strict limit on what can be legally taken.-Jim

 

[bookfish]

Thanks Galleon for posting that link. It is clear that there is NO LIMIT to the amount of wild ricordea that can be taken by an individual using a Florida saltwater recreational fishing license, resident or non-resident. I see nothing that prohibits what ricordea.net is doing. Fragmaster, if you want to change this I suggest you (we as an industry) petition the State of Florida to impose and enforce a daily "bag limit" on ricordea.
All in favor say aye!

 

[Anonymous]

Aye!

 

[bookfish]

Fragmaster, Naesco, can we count on your support for this petition?
I'm not kidding either, I'll draft one up and post it here for people to download, sign and mail (I'll provide the address).
If the State of Florida gets enough feedback about this issue from hobbyists and industry leaders, they'll have to consider it.
I had ASSUMED that there was a quota and I'm disgusted to see there isn't.-Jim

 

[bookfish]

I just sent the following to Tom at the e-mail address Duane provided.
Too much legislation in our industry has occurred without input from the industry itself so to avoid that I thought I'd solicit Toms response first.
Text follows

Hi, I'm the moderator for the "Industry behind the Hobby" forum on Reefs.org.
I'm currently also running an aquaculture and collecting station in Tonga in conjunction with the Tongan Ministry of Fisheries.
I spent 3 years working in Florida wholesale (years ago)and I wanted to give you a quick heads up.
Duane Johnson has gone to 3 of our (RDO) forums and complained about the ricordea collecting trips that ricordea.net is conducting. I believe these are perfectly legal but his insistence on this being wrong has led us to look at the ricordea daily bag limits and quotas and we've discovered there aren't any!
I am preparing a form letter that people on-line can download, sign and send to the FFWCC. This will likely be sent by many hobbyists and industry leaders as well.
However, I'd like to know what you think is a reasonable daily bag limit for ricordea so that we can include that in our petition.
Thanks for your input.-Jim Adelberg
Here are the threads for your reference
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=82631
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=82630
http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=82632

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Galleon for posting that link. It is clear that there is NO LIMIT to the amount of wild ricordea that can be taken by an individual using a Florida saltwater recreational fishing license, resident or non-resident.

Hi bookfish, my interpretation of the regulations in that link is that only twenty individual polyps may be taken, e.g. there is a recreational limit:

Bag Limit: Aggregate bag limit of 20 species (in any combination), of the species included in the Marine Life rule as listed below. Of those 20 species, no more than 5 may be angelfish, and no more than 6 may be colonies of octocorals (each colony or part thereof is included in the aggregate bag limit). The bag limit for plants listed in this rule is 1 gallon.

Species included in this rule are as follows:

Sea anemones - Any species of the Orders Actinaria, Zoanthidea, Corallimorpharia, and Ceriantharia.

 

[bookfish]

I see, I read it as a limit of 20 species, not a limit of 20 individuals per species. I will certainly get my facts straight before proceeding.

 

[FragMaster]

Uh yeah, Bookfish I would read more carefully if I were you guy.
I stated my supplier works for him but it is not Tom who supplies me.
So dont be suprised when you get a flaming email back from Tom.
Aperantly thats a problem you seem to have. ( not reading things correclty, or fully) Your email will have no effect what so ever on me my friend

Matt Obviously the post you quoted states my methods and, what I do.
EXACTLY.
It's with thin the law because my sales do not exceed the set amount to have to be reported to the IRS. I do not have a business so I need no tax Id number,without a Tax id number I am not considered a retailer/wholsale buyer. Would you like toknow my shoe size as well?
That fact that you as a moderator,one or two other mods,and someone with "Save The reefs" For a user name would try and turn this in to a flaming war and a mockary is apualing.
The fact that Bookfish thinks he carries any wieght out side of this forum and thinks he will mess up my supplier is just plain hilarious though! LOL!!!!
This is realy sad that you guys are too thick headed to see what this thing is going to do to this hobby if it is allowed to happen.
I give up on ya. Profess to save the reefs, start a web site to further such knowledge, then mock it.
I tried to point you guys in the right direction to stop someone from wrecking this hobby in to the ground. I didnt even have to post the rules and regs for collection,some one else did it but you still dont see it.
You still se this as somthing other than what it realy is.
VERY VERY SAD.

 

[SavetheReefs]

I think it is a government conspiracy!

 

[FragMaster]

Your not even worth my time guy.
Peace . :roll:

 

[bookfish]

I have no axe to grind here and as I said to you in a PM, it doesn't matter who your supplier is, I'd rather hear from someone who deals with this (collecting regulation) issue than someone who doesn't know and runs around saying things are illegal that may very well not be. BTW, the slur you made against the mods here on RDO in your PM was totally uncalled for and I'd like to remind you that you're free not to post on or visit RDO if you think we're doing such a bad job.
I will try to read more carefully in the future but to be honest, the wording on the regulation is a bit obtuse.

I'm sorry that you're so upset that not everyone sees this as "raping the reef" but I prefer to get to the real issue which is, is this legal. I know you "think" it may not be, but that doesn't answer the question.
I understand that you are passionate about what you see as an immoral and possibly illegal act and I do respect that passion, I just feel it's important to have all the information before making accusations.

As for my weight outside of this forum, I believe I carry the same weight as you my friend, that of a legal citizen of the United States and I'm as entitled to care about Florida wild ricordea collection as you are.
I also would prefer not to be called thick-headed just because I would prefer to know if the activities in question are legal or not. If not, there's a legal recourse, if so, there's a legislative recourse. Feel free to call me deliberate or slow to act but to say thick-headed implies that I don't get what you're saying. I do, I'm just not sure I agree with you.
I would ask you to consider having a bit more tolerance for others' points of view. You will live better and learn more.
I fail to see how ricordea.net is "wrecking this hobby into the ground". I see that you feel that is the case but I don't agree with your assumptions.

 

[Anonymous]

I have no axe to grind here and as I said to you in a PM, it doesn't matter who your supplier is, I'd rather hear from someone who deals with this (collecting regulation) issue than someone who doesn't know and runs around saying things are illegal that may very well not be. BTW, the slur you made against the mods here on RDO in your PM was totally uncalled for and I'd like to remind you that you're free not to post on or visit RDO if you think we're doing such a bad job.
I will try to read more carefully in the future but to be honest, the wording on the regulation is a bit obtuse.

I'm sorry that you're so upset that not everyone sees this as "raping the reef" but I prefer to get to the real issue which is, is this legal. I know you "think" it may not be, but that doesn't answer the question.

This poster has a history of "thinking" inconsistently with what regulations actually state:

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... 175#975175

 

[SavetheReefs]

Stop picking on duane, I am starting to feel sorry for him!

 

[treeman]

Then what is it REALLY fragmaster?

I agree this should not happen. Is it illegal? Show me where it states that it is. The RECREATIONAL bag limit is 20 individuals total, not of each species. If you take ten astrea snails you can only get 10 ricordia polyps per day.

There is a group of licensed collectors that is based in the keys that have discussions with FWC during the rule making process. I believe it is named Florida Marine Life Association or Tropical Fish Collectors Association.

Here are some links:
http://research.myfwc.com/features/cate ... sp?id=5250

http://myfwc.com/marine/commerical/ComR ... 202005.pdf
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