Hugo's tank dilution?

[JennM]

Jeff you conjure up a frightening mental postcard...

IF there was a perpetrator, he or she never had to enter the house. The sump is in a shed outside, may or may not have been locked, by Eric's own admission. One wouldn't have had to enter the house to perpetrate the alleged crime - it could have been done from the shed.

Of course then the supposed perp wouldn't have been able to see the results of his or her chickanery....

But they also wouldn't have had access to the other tanks if they never entered the house proper.

Who knows?

I have auto-topoff on most of my systems and I've never had a malfunction like that (knocking on wood). And it would take some doing to dilute out enough water to drop the specific gravity that much...

Dunno.

Jenn

 

[StevenPro]

Kalkbreath,

The water you used for your little experiment, did you use chlorinated tapwater or RO/DI to dillute the seawater?

 

[dizzy]

I'm just having a hard time understanding why he thinks someone would have the motivation to do such a dastardly deed. Someone would be risking multiple felony charges like trespassing, breaking and entering, vandalism, and animal cruelty charges, probably just for revenge sake. And it seems especially bold to attempt this in broad daylight. I hope it's a short list of people that would even be considered possible suspects. It would of had to be some sort of inside job.

 

[dizzy]

I had the opportunity to visit the Waikiki Aquarium with some members of the Los Angles Marine Aquarium Society several years back. Bruce Carlson took us outside to see the coral propagation area and the Carlson surge device in action on some coral farm vats. I was very impressed, but I remember asking what happened when it rained. Bruce explained that the freshwater was lighter than seawater and since it "floated" on top, much of it simply left via the overflow pipe. The tanks also had a constant drip from the saltwater well, but not enough to prevent dilution in a heavy downpoor unless the freshwater water was being drained away. Consider the fact that the volume of these vats was fairly small and they were densely packed with SPS corals. So if you were to just drop a hose into the sump and let freshwater run, much of it would just overflow out top of the sump, like it does at the Waikiki.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

Isn't Waikiki a flow through system?

 

[tinyreef]

Of course then the supposed perp wouldn't have been able to see the results of his or her chickanery....

unless they're surfing the forums, which is likely imo (if there even was a perp).

a roll of pennies would've been easier and more diabolical. bleach, windex, etc. all easier than the siphon/fill i've seen suggested here and elsewhere.

is there motive? i think so. people take things much too seriously online and his schism with RC with personalities involved could lead to something like this.

btw, if you drop the garden hose/whatever right into the return intake of the sump pump, then the overflow from the sump (as the system exceeded the "normal" level) would be mostly the sw overflowing from the display tank. depending on his house's waterflow (gph) that's what the saboteur would need to figure to poison borneman's system. e.g. 250-gph would be roughly 1-hour (doable imo), probably higher than that though and in turn a shorter wait. i think it had to be quick, nobody's gonna hang out to see if borneman returns or neighbors spot him/her.

one thing i hadn't seen from his thread was whether or not the water level was abnormally high. i doubt the perp (again, if there was one) would've bothered to siphon out the sump back to "normal water level" if the sump flooding was the modus operandi.

even if there wasn't sump flooding, as suggested here, siphoning out to the french drain or whatever i doubt the perp would bother re-balancing the water levels after pumping in fw to dilute the system. then again, i'm not a criminal scumbag so who knows the laziness or meticulousness of the perp/jerk involved (if there was one).

 

[dizzy]

Isn't Waikiki a flow through system?

"The tanks also had a constant drip from the saltwater well, but not enough to prevent dilution in a heavy downpoor "

Don't know if you missed the above quote or not? It is a flow through, but I don't believe it is a large volume flow through. I believe much of it is recirculated. They get their water from saltwater wells, but many of the corals they are keeping require special permits as they are brought in from other locations. They would need to take precautions to prevent the release of non-native species, so a rapic flow through would present special challenges.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

If much of it is recirculated wouldn't freshwater going over the overflow simply make it back to the display? What am I missing?

 

[Anonymous]

I can think a couple of things to verify.

1) Time the RO system to see whether it is actually producing more than the rated 50gpd due to a bad membrane, etc.

2) It was said that the skimmer drained to a gravel bed outside. Is it possible that the skimmer drain could form a siphon?

I could think of a weird scenario wherein the skimmer went wild due to a dying coral and a siphon formed involving the skimmer drain line. A malfunctioning RO unit could then add too much fresh water. When the SG of the water got too low the skimmer would stop producing skimate and the siphon would then break.

This is highly unlikely scenario but conceivable.

 

[Anonymous]

Something just occurred to me: Eric had several corals rare to the hobby. For instance, he said the he had a specimen of Acropora palmata. I don't know whether that one is even legal for most of us.

Is it possible that someone fragged some of the rare corals and then wiped out the tank to cover the crime? I wonder whether Eric could tell if portions of some of the corals were missing?

 

[dizzy]

If much of it is recirculated wouldn't freshwater going over the overflow simply make it back to the display? What am I missing?

Righty,
That's a good point. Maybe it is a high water overflow pipe that is a bit higher than the normal standpipe, so it is only working in heavy downpoors. I don't recall any further explanation.

 

[JennM]

Something just occurred to me: Eric had several corals rare to the hobby. For instance, he said the he had a specimen of Acropora palmata. I don't know whether that one is even legal for most of us.

Is it possible that someone fragged some of the rare corals and then wiped out the tank to cover the crime? I wonder whether Eric could tell if portions of some of the corals were missing?

Unknown but what Eric made clear in his post was that nobody appeared to have entered the house proper - the sump is located in a shed, which may or may not have been locked - he said they try to remember to lock it but I don't think it was in this case - meaning anyone could have accessed that without getting inside the house, and therefore not having access to the tank proper and the corals.

Seems that opinion is divided as to whether the cause may have been a mechanical failure of some sort, or sabotage. I can't guess either way... too many variables.

There *are* people out there who commit the "perfect crime" or at least almost perfect. Like I said before, yes there would have been easier ways to do this intentionally but most of those speculated on would have been *obvious* and that would have confirmed that somebody dunnit. Given the way it did go down - there's enough reasonable doubt either way that it could have been intentional, OR it could have been accidental.

Mystery may never be solved, really, unless somebody takes responsibility for it, or if it was intentional, if somebody forgot to cover their tracks somewhere along the line.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Is it legal for most of us to have an Acropora palmata in a private collection? Perhaps as a hitchhiker on LR?

 

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a case for Houston CSI, not RDO CSI

 

[dizzy]

Unknown but what Eric made clear in his post was that nobody appeared to have entered the house proper - the sump is located in a shed, which may or may not have been locked - he said they try to remember to lock it but I don't think it was in this case - meaning anyone could have accessed that without getting inside the house, and therefore not having access to the tank proper and the corals.

That perp is one lucky guy or gal. He/she just happens to come by on one of the days Eric forgets to lock the shed. They are really lucky if they flew into Houston from parts unknow, rented a car, somehow found out where he lives and then figured where his sump was and how to sabatoge his system and make it look like an accident. 8O

 

[JennM]

Well stranger things have happened, Mitch.

I take it you subscribe to the mechanical failure theory?

I'm still firmly on the fence.

Jenn

 

[dizzy]

If the glove don't fit. You must acquit. :wink:

 

[liquid]

A pool chlorine test would have shown if it was indeed water from his garden hose if tested within a couple hours. All municipal water systems add chlorine to their water supply.

Shane

 

[JennM]

There are test kits for aquarium use that test for chlorine too -- tap-water-using freshwater hobbyists use them.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

If the glove don't fit. You must acquit. :wink:

:lol: