Restricted Species List (RSL)

[naesco]

The implementation of the USL or Unsuitable Species List voluntarily by industry or legislated by governements is a given.

Serious consideration needs to be given to a RSL.

I propose we work now towards agreement to a RSL now.

The first species to the RSL should be sea anemones.

Ronald Shimek in his book "Marine Invertabrates wrote at pages 82-83.
"Any anemone removed from the coral reef area removes any possibility of clownfishes from that area because in the wild these fishes require the anemone's presence for their survival. It has been documented that sea anemones reproduce and spread slowly in nature, and small individuals are almost never seen. Some researchers have indicataed that adult anemones may be several centuries old. Collectors are removing literally all the anemones from some reef areas."

Given his learned comments and the fact that they can be aqua-cultured it makes no sense to continue wild harvest of these species and accordingly their import should be restricted by industry before steps are taking to legislate a total ban on their import

Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

The implementation of the USL or Unsuitable Species List voluntarily by industry or legislated by governements is a given.

er- no, it is not a given, and your statement belies your complete lack of knowledge on how industries and governments, volunteerism, and legislation work.


please prove how it's a given.

I propose we work now towards agreement to a RSL now.

er- who's we? does that include you ? you have NO qualification in this field, so how do you arrive at 'we' ?

Given his learned comments and the fact that they can be aqua-cultured it makes no sense to continue wild harvest of these species and accordingly their import should be restricted by industry before steps are taking to legislate a total ban on their import

what do you know about anemone reproductive rates and captive reproductive husbandry of same?

do you know the difference between the anemone species, and how they reproduce? the time frames, etc etc?

you've talked about those 'steps' being guaranteed to be in place many times in the past, and you've been completely incorrect each and every time

so what news do you have to indicate that those steps are being taken, or ever will be ?


are you posting on this forum simply to be able to see your own posts here? that's the impression i'm getting, and the only logical conclusion i can arrive at, given the nature of the posts you make here.

 

[Caterham]

With absolutely no involvement or experience in the trade of marine ornamentals, how do you plan to implement changes once you have finished your list?

Please be specific with your answer. Many thanks in advance!

 

[Anonymous]

...because in the wild these fishes require the anemone's presence for their survival

Just as much as my corals need a sandbed to thrive in my tank. I guess in his 100's of dives he never saw a clownfish hosting a coral.

Now on this RSL, how does restricting the import of cleaner wrasses prevent a collector from spraying a reef area when he tries to collect an "aquarium friendly" coral beauty, for example?

 

[Anonymous]

Do this in your own country, tackle the smaller problem first. I'm sure the Canadian government will listen to you and your reeform :lol: Honestly Wayne, is your job to run smoke screen for the cyaniders? You know, be so left field that people think the whole thing is a joke?

 

[Anonymous]

The implementation of the USL or Unsuitable Species List voluntarily by industry or legislated by governements is a given.

Serious consideration needs to be given to a RSL.

I propose we work now towards agreement to a RSL now.

The first species to the RSL should be sea anemones.

Ronald Shimek in his book "Marine Invertabrates wrote at pages 82-83.
"Any anemone removed from the coral reef area removes any possibility of clownfishes from that area because in the wild these fishes require the anemone's presence for their survival. It has been documented that sea anemones reproduce and spread slowly in nature, and small individuals are almost never seen. Some researchers have indicataed that adult anemones may be several centuries old. Collectors are removing literally all the anemones from some reef areas."

Given his learned comments and the fact that they can be aqua-cultured it makes no sense to continue wild harvest of these species and accordingly their import should be restricted by industry before steps are taking to legislate a total ban on their import

Wayne Ryan

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

i'm all for restricting regulating, and illegalizing aptasias

 

[naesco]

Do this in your own country, tackle the smaller problem first. I'm sure the Canadian government will listen to you and your reeform :lol:

Gresham, I have already started. But, it will be joint effort of the Canadian Government and the US through its established agencies and possibly Australia. But the largest problem will be tackled first: Cyanide. I expect an announcement in due course. Stay tuned.
Wayne Ryan

 

[Anonymous]

STOP you have no credibility when it comes to announcing something......I will never stay tuned for your never to come announcement...Geesh :roll:

 

[naesco]

Dr. Ronald Shimek, awarded the MASNA Award for Outstanding Xontributions to the Marine Aquarium Hobby is actively investigating the suitability of different organisms for the aquarium hobby.

Dr. Shimek wrote "If a hobbyist tries to keep a host anemone and fails, not only have they killed that one animal they have also killed any clownfish in the wild that might have been found on it. Additionally, they will have removed a potential breeding animal from a population that may need all the breeders it can get" He urges hobbyists to to purchase captive bred anemones instead.

Tonnes of anemones are imported. I have seen hundreds of them, a deflated mass of dying tissue in LFS throughout Canada and the US.

In light of his comments how does industry justify continuing the import of these animals.
They are therefor a suitable addition to the Restricted Species List (RSL).

I would suggest you take the time to add your comments to his comments and consider what other species should be added rather than continue the personal attacks against someone who is sincerely concerned about the intervention of government in our industry due to inaction on the part of industry in reeform.

 

[Caterham]

I would suggest you take the time to add your comments to his comments and consider what other species should be added rather than continue the personal attacks against someone who is sincerely concerned about the intervention of government in our industry due to inaction on the part of industry in reeform.

What do you mean when you say "our" industry. You are not involved in the trade of marine ornamentals in any capacity and never have been. As such, you are quite clearly referring to something other than the trade of marine ornamentals.

What, exactly, is the industry that you are actually involved in? Many thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[nanocat]

Far be it for me to argue with Shimek, but I disagree with the blanket statement that

sea anemones reproduce and spread slowly in nature

? I fail to see why a BTA would be less likely to split in it's natural habitat when they split so easily and frequently in a closed tank?

What am I missing? Doesn't it really depend on the type of anemone?

 

[Anonymous]

As I said in the other thread, I see little utility in such a list.

I too, am getting a little tired of people saying 'announcement coming' regarding industry stuff, and feel that the criticism in this thread, while coming close to the line of 'bad behavior' is not quite there yet. I find it odd as well that in the last thread, blue ring octos were the animal that 'should obviously be on the list', but in this thread its anemones.

Also, I don't know how qualified Ron is to speak on anemone reproduction, or if you are doing your efforts, whatever they may be, a service by linking them with his name. Also, isn't the MASNA award determined by hobbyists voting?

 

[StevenPro]

Approximately ten years ago, most hobbyists had very little success with anemones. See here http://trickstr.tripod.com/survey_r.htm

Now, BTA's are reproducing and taking over displays routinely. The only thing these lists will do is stifle innovation and progress.

 

[Anonymous]

The only thing these lists will do is stifle innovation and progress.

Agreed.

 

[Anonymous]

Far be it for me to argue with Shimek

Why??

I did with His great salt debate.. - Of course, with the ensuing onslaught I started to receive from the sheeple Masses on that other board, I did a quick about-face and ceded from the ****-storm I nearly started, but the fact remains: He (athough worshipped as other) is still merely man.

I knew quite a few people who lost an awful lot following His wonderful advice on that salt bit. :?



Wayne..... - Really... - You do make yourself look silly placing yourself where you clearly don't fit. (Which is what I was trying to get across in an earlier thread.. - Not trying to bash, just lend help..)

Try adding a liberal dash of humility.. - It might make it much more palatable to those you wish to feed..

 

[naesco]

Approximately ten years ago, most hobbyists had very little success with anemones. See here http://trickstr.tripod.com/survey_r.htm

Now, BTA's are reproducing and taking over displays routinely. The only thing these lists will do is stifle innovation and progress.

Historically lot was done by hobbyists to improve upon the variety of fish and coral but that was ten years ago.

Today scientists, expert hobbyists and industry types and universities do advance studies.
The old try and error at the expense of the fish and coral is no longer tolerated.
As a scientist I would hope that you would comment on Shimek's comments.
Do you agree with him or not?
Thank you
Wayne Ryan

 

[naesco]

Before moving on with the next additions to the Restricted Species List (RSL) I want to briefly comment on the posters.
To those who question his credentials? Please post your bio, the books and papers you have written etc
To those who question his awards? Tell me about yours? MASNA, AMDA, anything.

Nanocat, I don't have the answer to your question but I will try to find the answer as it is an intelligent question.

Thanks
Wayne

 

[Caterham]

Naesco,

Steven Pro is an "industry type". He is actually involved in the industry and speaks nationwide. He is widely respected by not only hobbyists but his peers as well.

Having no experience or current involvement in the trade of marine ornamentals it is not at all surprising that you were unaware.

 

[Anonymous]

Before moving on with the next additions to the Restricted Species List (RSL) I want to briefly comment on the posters.
To those who question his credentials? Please post your bio, the books and papers you have written etc
To those who question his awards? Tell me about yours? MASNA, AMDA, anything.

Nanocat, I don't have the answer to your question but I will try to find the answer as it is an intelligent question.

Thanks
Wayne

I think you are misunderstanding some. Its not the Dr.'s Cred's that are under fire here, its yours.


If you have no connection at all with the industry other than as a hobbiest, then you have no basis on which to set forth all these silly pronouncements.


How come the only person constantly coming up with a bunch of regulate this and regulate that and reeform(which by the way is the most retarded name I have ever heard) this and reeform that is someone with no connection to the industry?


That is the question we are all dying to hear answered!