KICKING OUT CHERRYPICKERS

[JT]

Sally if he really wants the cherries tell him to contact AquaMarines. They are cherry pickers sumpreme for the retailers. I'm not a huge fan of allowing this or the etailers to do it, but it might work for your guy.

Although AquaMarines is one of the best jobbers in L.A., and he knows how to find the best cherries, whether it's the healthiest purple firefish in the facility or a candy cane lordhowensis, he is one of the few that respects wholesaler policies and limits. I have no issues with how AquaMarines operates and I used to have to compete with him on a daily basis.

- JT

 

[JennM]

Another thing that people in general seem to have a problem understanding, is that wild collected specimens can be inconsistent. If divers/collectors didn't find a particular specie that week, or if it died in transit, or if they anticipated 100 of them but only collected 10, that affects what gets to the end user.

Many hobbists give absolutely NO thought to how the specimens come to be in my holding tanks - they just magically appear here each week. They assume because they want something it will be available and that's just not always the case.

I'm a small shop - but with patience and a good relationship with the few small suppliers I deal with, I can usually get what my customers are looking for. It's a matter of sending my suppliers a request - tell them what I need/want. Sometimes stuff doesn't make a stock list if they don't have enough to go around but if the supplier knows I'm looking for it they'll let me know. It's worked for me so far. Had to wait a while for some things but nothing has been "impossible" yet.

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

So, I look at it from my local guy's point of view (which btw, doesn't complain/***** to his supplier/s) and mine as a hobbiest. If that's wrong then sorry, get over it.
I been around this forum long enough to know how it works 8O I understand the whole concept of stock list vs. fill rate vs room on the plane. Give me a break. The thread was about cherry picking/ers and what it does to the whole industery in general.


My point is that if wholesalers allow jobbers/c. pickers, then those of us in schmuckville are screwed. Which leaves us with no other choices than to use the same people that screwed us (b&m's and hobbiests) in the first place.

 

[JT]

My point is that if wholesalers allow jobbers/c. pickers, then those of us in schmuckville are screwed. Which leaves us with no other choices than to use the same people that screwed us (b&m's and hobbiests) in the first place.

Ok, Jenn and I live near schmuckville so just what cherries are you not getting but basing the success of your store on?

Our store is known for extremely healthy bread and butter fish with a few cherries now and again. Aside from rare or hard to find reef fish, we don't demand big dollar corals because our customers never buy them when we do have them. However, I certainly can get them when needed.

As others have said, if you are looking for the super cherries such as lordhowensis, the majority of these are not coming through the major channels but are most likely being smuggled. When I worked in wholesale, very few exotic cherry corals actually came in the door. We were lucky to have 10 blastomussa/week. Try sharing this with a customer base the size of SDC's and you can begin to understand the problem. There are not as many cherry corals landing in L.A. as people think.

If your business can't be successful without cherries, it's time to get out of the fish biz IMHO.

- JT

 

[Anonymous]

Well I can see that you've all missed the point I was trying to relay so I'll let it drop.

Ok, Jenn and I live near schmuckville

Been to Jenn's store before the freshwater stuff was set up and I can tell you that you are no where near schmuckville! Canton is a sub-burb outside the parimeter but your still within a hop skip and jump from downtown Hotlanta.

 

[just dave]

Well I can see that you've all missed the point I was trying to relay ....

I guess I did.

My point is that if wholesalers allow jobbers/c. pickers, then those of us in schmuckville are screwed. Which leaves us with no other choices than to use the same people that screwed us (b&m's and hobbiests) in the first place.

Trying to stop the practice of cherry picking would be like trying to stop the wind from blowing. It's not going to happen. It's a practice that probably started minutes after the first wholesaler opened their doors.
There is no reason to get screwed. There are many wholesalers to pick from but you certainly have to be flexible. You also have to search them out sometimes.

 

[JennM]

Well I can see that you've all missed the point I was trying to relay so I'll let it drop.

Ok, Jenn and I live near schmuckville

Been to Jenn's store before the freshwater stuff was set up and I can tell you that you are no where near schmuckville! Canton is a sub-burb outside the parimeter but your still within a hop skip and jump from downtown Hotlanta.

Physical location aside (yes I ship in through ATL), I think the intent of JT's post was that we're a small store not unlike your LFS. We aren't a "big player" in the metro ATL market, yet we can still get good stuff when we want/need to, but we thrive on bread and butter stuff, because that's what our market will buy.

You'll also be surprised, despite our close proximity to downtown ATL (within 30-40 minutes' drive even in our infamous traffic) the amount of people who balk at the "distance" they have to come here. Heck back home in Canada when I was in the hobby, I lived 30 miles outside of the burbs, in the middle of B.F. Egypt and we never thought twice about driving 30-60 miles to do our weekend rounds (one-way) to our favourite stores. Many times I came home with specimens tucked in my parka to keep them warm on the drive home (I was the passenger, not the driver!). All in what one needs to do to feed their addiction... er hobby

I/we do realize that shipping outside a major hub can be a pain, but that speaks more to shipping issues, not availability issues as such. I have to agree with JT that if one's business can't thrive on bread and butter items, something is wrong somewhere.

I've got a few nice show sized pieces, and "cherry" smaller pieces with outstanding colour that I can't sell at a fair price. I've had two Acanthastreas here for eons - folks around here don't appreciate them, or if they do, they balk at the price, which is competitive, even with online vendors because I can't ask a high price for them or I'll never move them. I've got purple digis that I've had since they were 1/2" frags that are good sized colonies now - nobody wants them. I had a nice Pocillipora meandrina here for a good 6 months... pretty pink w/purple tips - finally sold that for a song last weekend.

I do more business day to day with green/brown zoanthids (sold 4 of those today), good old standby leathers, shrooms and the like, as well as garden-variety LPS like frogspawn - although I've had 2 of those larger specimens here for ages too - people want cheap no-brainer frags. Luckily I have a good customer base that brings me nice gsp frags and the like and that keeps me supplied with small bits for nano tanks at reasonable prices, because I trade them in for store credit and sell them at a reasonable price. THAT is what pays my bills, not the outrageous, the rare, the "priceless"...

Cherries are nice to have but they just don't move very well - at least not in my market. Of course, I'm not one to sell something rare and fragile to a newb who doesn't know what he/she is doing either -- so perhaps that has something to do with it. I don't know - that's what works for me.

Jenn

 

[JT]

Quite funny actually, while Jenn was writing her reply above, I was going through the coral tanks admiring some of the corals I call cherries that have been sitting here for months. My favorites just sitting here are some really nice Echinopora, Echinophyllia, Micromussa, a blue-ish/green mycedium, and this huge metallic grean symphyllia with awesome feeder sweepers. Nothing is priced outrageously, even the show size symphyllia is only advertised @ $89.99.

For fish, the only expensive cherries we have is a nice trio of Hawaiian Flame Wrasses. Bread and Butter cherries are Yellow Coris Wrasses and Flasher Wrasses

The one cherry I haven't been able to get lately are MALE seahorses. I can buy female ponies all day long but there are very few males coming in lately.

- JT

 

[clarionreef]

Trying to stop the practice of cherry picking would be like trying to stop the wind from blowing. It's not going to happen.

Thats what minimums are for and rules about business liscences for storefronts.
Its also what reserved tanks, species limits, salesmen on commissions and post-its on the cubes are for.
Raising prices slow some down...but hurt everyone.
Finally...kickin out the never to be reformed cherrypickers w/ the nerve and gall to refuse polite admonitions is a good remedy as well.
If you deny them enough they'll go plague the competition and leave you alone.
Customers are the ones you like to see drive up.
Cherrypickers are the ones you don't and make sit outside in the car and the cold for an extra half hour before opening the door.
Its really cold now. Let em freeze.
Steve

 

[dizzy]

Trying to stop the practice of cherry picking would be like trying to stop the wind from blowing. It's not going to happen. It's a practice that probably started minutes after the first wholesaler opened their doors.

I don't know who started it, but a guy named Walt Smith sure took it to news heights back in the 80s.

 

[Anonymous]

Quite funny actually, while Jenn was writing her reply above, I was going through the coral tanks admiring some of the corals I call cherries that have been sitting here for months. My favorites just sitting here are some really nice Echinopora, Echinophyllia, Micromussa, a blue-ish/green mycedium, and this huge metallic grean symphyllia with awesome feeder sweepers. Nothing is priced outrageously, even the show size symphyllia is only advertised @ $89.99.

For fish, the only expensive cherries we have is a nice trio of Hawaiian Flame Wrasses. Bread and Butter cherries are Yellow Coris Wrasses and Flasher Wrasses

The one cherry I haven't been able to get lately are MALE seahorses. I can buy female ponies all day long but there are very few males coming in lately.

- JT

Dang wish I woulda stopped by on my way back from Trafficlanta (Took me 9 hours to drive a typical 5 hour drive) the other day. Those prices are maybe a 1/3 of what they charge here in Greensboro.

 

[sdcfish]

"Trying to stop the practice of cherry picking would be like trying to stop the wind from blowing. It's not going to happen."

"Try sharing this with a customer base the size of SDC's and you can begin to understand the problem. There are not as many cherry corals landing in L.A. as people think. "


Both comments are exactly why SDC stopped ALL jobbers and still is very careful about each customer and how much "cherry's" are given out. Not trying to plug business here.....but it's really about being fair, and spreading the "love" to as many people as possibe. We can't just send 5 boxes of "cherry's for a $1500 invoice.....it just kills the other 30 or more customers dying for that stuff.

So....make one customer happy? Or 30+? The solution was really a simple one.

Happy cherry picking!

Eric

 

[dizzy]

Both comments are exactly why SDC stopped ALL jobbers and still is very careful about each customer and how much "cherry's" are given out. Not trying to plug business here.....but it's really about being fair, and spreading the "love" to as many people as possibe. So....make one customer happy? Or 30+? The solution was really a simple one.

Happy cherry picking!

Eric

So Eric are you saying you don't allow F&S to come into SDC looking for quality fish and corals? It seems like the statements from you and Race might conflict a bit. I'm not saying that you do btw, but I am trying to understand who Race is referring to.

Race wrote:
"As you may know my tracks are all over West 104 th. street and L.A. I also stated that I do not limit my purchases to any one vendor and in fact currently use several in an attempt to get a quality fish and coral supply."

 

[Anonymous]

I must say that ordering from JT (while he was at SDC) and Lorin (at SDC) while I worked at Crever's (4 years, located in the heart of Schmuckville), I got more than my fair share of cherries, and had about a 90% fill rate 95% of the time...all of quality animals. If your store isn't getting what it orders nor getting some cherry pieces, then there must be something wrong with how the owner is going about his business.

I've ordered from SDC, ERI, Fish Heads, Marine Specialties, Underwater World, and ORA, and have rarely had a problem increasing my profits monthly..they all took care of me very well. Plus, all this was in a store where the owners had no clue and continually sabotaged the business with their ignorance. The quality and availbility of the livestock kept customers coming back and spending large amounts of cash.

If you do things right and pay attention to developing your relationship with each wholesaler you deal with, cherry-picking in LA is no more a problem than paying the store's phone bill.

Peace,

Chip

 

[dizzy]

Well you've certainly never heard me complain about being able to get nice fish or corals either. I guess our market is a little like Jenn and JTs in that the public doesn't want to spend much over $40 for a coral or about $20-30 for a fish. I still think the growth of the etailers has come at the expense of retailers in general. I think we are losing stores all over the country. Even if you can get nice stuff, it is not always easy to get it on demand for a customer. It is a huge advantage that the LA based etailers have when they can go running from wholesaler to wholesaler making little picks several times a day. Not having to pay freight to get the livestock to to their store is a huge advantage. Not having to house, feed, treat sick fish etc., and clean tanks is another huge advantage. If the truth were known, they are probably even making money on the shipping, and can offer a longer free replacement than the average store. I can tell you that we have lost a large number of customers to the internet here in our store and it is disturbing and demoralizing at times. Chip is your new store still going? If so at some point you will realize what I'm talking about. I guarantee it.
Mitch

PS
The ones that take away drygoods and livestock sales are a double whammy.

 

[Anonymous]

Dizzy,

The store is still going...we're having some trouble just getting someone to do contracting work for us, so it's been frustrating on that front. However, we continue to monitor all stores within a 2.5-3 hour radius of us, and we're still 100% convinced that we can make a good living here with this shop. No one else can come close to what I can do, so I'm still very confident. Our doors will open soon, and it will remain a 2-man operation until we are established.

Peace,

Chip

 

[sdcfish]

Dizzy wrote: So Eric are you saying you don't allow F&S to come into SDC looking for quality fish and corals? It seems like the statements from you and Race might conflict a bit. I'm not saying that you do btw, but I am trying to understand who Race is referring to
No we don't sell to F&S. Race came to see us once, and Kevin (good buddie) has come down more than that and I always enjoy showing them what they are missing. I do not know of any other supplier that has shipped for F&S other than QM.

Regards,

Eric

 

[sdcfish]

Dizzy wrote: So Eric are you saying you don't allow F&S to come into SDC looking for quality fish and corals? It seems like the statements from you and Race might conflict a bit. I'm not saying that you do btw, but I am trying to understand who Race is referring to
No we don't sell to F&S. but, I am not saying that I would'nt like too. Their Live arrival guarranty is commendable and raises the bar for others to follow. Race came to see us once, and Kevin (good buddie) has come down more than that and I always enjoy showing them what they are missing. I do not know of any other supplier that has shipped for F&S other than QM.

Regards,

Eric

 

[dizzy]

Eric,
I was under the impression that ERI was also shipping some for the good doctors. Didn't they get that Diver's Den thing from Rob Miller? And also are they able to dropship the $2.00# live rock through QM?
PS
I can see how they can offer the guarantee considering the selling price they get and the low overhead associated with dropshipping.

 

[Anonymous]

Dizzy,

Why don't you PM Rob on that? I'm sure he's still lurking around here...ERIfish I think is his username.

Peace,

Chip