Question for B&M's...

[Rascal]

I followed with great interest the Borneman thread. In it there was a tangential discussion regarding the cherry pickers on 104th. If I may, I would like to start a dialog regarding this occurence.

Some background info. I have an established aquarium store in Melbourne, FL. I have a degree from Fl. Tech in aquaculture. I have seen this industry change quite a bit in my 13 years as a business owner...some for the good, and some not. That being said, I tend to cater to a slightly higher clientele these days, and as such avoid some of the competition for those entry level items (i.e. seaclones). As far as livestock, I am confident in saying that mine is above industry norms regarding quality.

I noticed a few store owners expressing their views on the cherry pickers. This attracted my interest as there was a thread on RC recently relating to Drs. Foster and Smith. I will say now that my participation in that thread cost me my user priviledges on RC.

My question is: How many B&M's are there that are familiar with this practice of cherry pickers getting the premium product, relatively speaking, and leaving a second grade product for the shipouts? Please chime in if you have an opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

My question is: How many B&M's are there that are familiar with this practice of cherry pickers getting the premium product, relatively speaking, and leaving a second grade product for the shipouts? Please chime in if you have an opinion.

Whenever I've ever ordered, whether it was from Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World, MSI, ERI, or ORA, I continued to get premium product. So much as to wonder if there really WERE cherry pickers around 104th street.

If you order consistantly with a decent volume each week, you win, regardless of any cherry picking. Great relations with your suppliers beats anything else.

Peace,

Chip

 

[JennM]

Firstly, welcome to the Industry Forum here at RDO!

I tend not to deal with 104th. In fact I haven't for most of the 4 years I've been in business for myself. I tend to support smaller wholesalers who don't allow cherry pickers into their facility.

I can honestly say that I get my share of "cherries"... and like Chip said, forging a good relationship with one's supplier goes a long way. Let them know what you're looking for, and sooner or later you'll likely get it as long as it's obtainable.

I'm sort of in-between your store, Rascal, and the "entry level" store. I don't carry the clone But much (most!) of my business is from novice to intermediate hobbyists - but I try to steer them away from putting good money after bad, so I carry the better quality equipment. Most of my livestock sales are "bread and butter" items, but I have some clients that appreciate the harder-to-come-by creatures such as the Australian Scott's Fairy Wrasse I sold yesterday.

It's not a cheap hobby - I'm clear about that from the word go. Doing some things "on the cheap" tend to cost more in the long run and that's what I try to impart to my clients.

But back to the subject at hand - I have no problems getting the creatures I want, when I want them, except for seasonal variables such as what we see from time to time.

HTH

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

My question is: How many B&M's are there that are familiar with this practice of cherry pickers getting the premium product, relatively speaking, and leaving a second grade product for the shipouts? Please chime in if you have an opinion.

Whenever I've ever ordered, whether it was from Sea Dwelling Creatures, Underwater World, MSI, ERI, or ORA, I continued to get premium product. So much as to wonder if there really WERE cherry pickers around 104th street.

If you order consistantly with a decent volume each week, you win, regardless of any cherry picking. Great relations with your suppliers beats anything else.

Peace,

Chip

ding ding ding !!

 

[Anonymous]

ding ding ding !!

Thanks Vitz...it's nice to get support from the Peanut Gallery once in a while.



Peace,

Chip

 

[Rascal]

Thank you guys for the responses you have offered so far. It is interesting to note that you have all made a point in mentioning that you receive cherries from your suppliers. The truth is, so do I. But if you look at my original question that isn't really what I was asking.

I have a certain issue with a MO company (the thread is back on RC) that attests that the quality of his livestock is of better quality than mine. His company offers a 14 day warranty on this live product, and in essence has used that as a measure of the quality of his fish/corals.

It has been pointed out numerous times that these MO companies (who dropship from 104th) have a huge cost advantage over the B&Ms. But, they never see the product. How, if we ARE all getting the same quality fish, do they make the claim that their fish are better than mine. Maybe I take this a little too personally. But I know the efforts that I put forth to "clean up" my fish. No big secret usually, but just about every fish goes through our particular regime in order to minimize parasites, reduce stress, and get them eating...before they are offered for sale.

Am I the only one who is offended by this marketing strategy?

 

[Anonymous]

Would you mind posting the url to the thread? I went there looking for a locked thread, but I didn't have the time to sort through all my possible matches

Also, I think that if you look here in the industry forum you'll find a thread where the very questions you raised were brought up. Unfortunately, I believe it too is in a locked thread. Looks like several of those to choose from in here too I'm afraid.

 

[Anonymous]

Would you mind posting the url to the thread? I went there looking for a locked thread, but I didn't have the time to sort through all my possible matches

ROTFL!

Peace,

Chip

 

[Rascal]

That made my day...thanks for the laugh.

I believe these are the links. I can't confirm because I can't get back on RC, but these were the e-mail notifications I recd.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... to=newpost

and

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthrea ... to=newpost

The final one has been so freaking vaporized it's not funny. I can still smell the ozone.

 

[Anonymous]

Ah, I did follow those threads. I thought since you just appeared here that it just happened. I believe the discussion here was a direct result of the ones there that were locked.

 

[Rascal]

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make.

 

[dizzy]

Rascal I was looking over the RC threads and don't understand why they gave you the boot. As far as I'm concerned, any real brick and mortar dealer is sure welcome to come over and hang out here though. Welcome to Reefs.org.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

As far as I'm concerned, any real brick and mortar dealer is sure welcome to come over and hang out here though. Mitch

And those who aren't?

 

[dizzy]

Everyone is welcome as long as they behave.

 

[Rascal]

Guys, thanks, really, for the responses, the welcome, and even the criticism. I may seem new here (by my post count) but I've been a fan of this site for many years. Truth be told, I don't think I ever really felt like I had anything to contribute to this forum. But things change. Trust the fact that I have no hidden agenda.

My dealings over at RC, including those more recently, were nothing but professional, respectful and intelligent. But I (a non-paying member) was posing a difficult question (to a paying sponsor), and that fell somewhere in that nondiscript area of not "playing by the rules".

Here's another truth - I am passionate about my business. I've been at it for 13 years, and simply don't like when someone says there stuff is better than mine, when it's not.

JP, if I'm not clear on that please let me know. Ask me a question. But please try to avoid the innuendos...that's not constructive. I look forward to your input, as well as that from the other members here...especially other B&M's that might feel as I do.

 

[Anonymous]

Huh? I'm not exactly sure what you're directing at me nor what innuendos I used. You mentioned that you came here after being banned for a thread over there. I asked you to post the URL so I can see it. When you did I said I followed that conversation and told you that it carried over on here. Since Race posted here regarding the same issues I thought you might have been interested to read that thread and comment here without fear of retribution but I said don't recall if the thread was closed.

Are we not on the same tracks here or something?

 

[Rascal]

JP - I apologize.

 

[Anonymous]

LOL, there hasn't been anything to apologize for. :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

It has been pointed out numerous times that these MO companies (who dropship from 104th) have a huge cost advantage over the B&Ms. But, they never see the product. How, if we ARE all getting the same quality fish, do they make the claim that their fish are better than mine. Maybe I take this a little too personally. But I know the efforts that I put forth to "clean up" my fish. No big secret usually, but just about every fish goes through our particular regime in order to minimize parasites, reduce stress, and get them eating...before they are offered for sale.

Am I the only one who is offended by this marketing strategy?

:welcome:

That said, marketing is marketing, and just about anyone knows to take any of it with a grain of salt. Anyone can claim anything they want. 'We have the best' usually means nothing, but an explanation of what is being done would go a long way with some people. Sadly, the reason marketing is marketing is because it works!

 

[JennM]

Not sure why you got the boot either - IMO you made your reasonable points in a respectful way - and well done, sir - my hat is off to thee

What I did see in those threads was a HELL of a lot of kissing up by his customers. Unfortunately nobody else in the biz appeared to have your back

What *I* surmise from all that discussion is that perhaps of all the mail order companies, DFS seems to have the best buying power, and the best ability to eat losses. That's going to translate into cherry stuff out of O2O and whatever other suppliers they use... but IMO (and respectfully) it's impossible for DFS to have a monopoly on all of the "best" specimens being imported via LAX. So to state as a fact that they get *all* of the *best* specimens is factually impossible. A green chromis is a green chromis - IME the ones out of Fiji are better than the ones out of Indo... so I don't buy the Indo ones, but beyond that, "my Fiji chromis is no better or worse than DFS' or yours or anyone else's - the way it's handled is another story. A Scott's Fairy Wrasse is a Scott's Fairy Wrasse - and I still think the one that I had, held and fed for 10 days before selling it out of my own holding system is better than one that just landed, got rebagged and reshipped. But hey - that's just me.

Again I'll state that comparing mail order to brick and mortar is like comparing apples and bowling balls.

While DFS might have the "best" guarantee etc., it only means that they can eat the loss on an otherwise healthy organism that died within 2 weeks for any reason. Rascal, you and I can't afford to do that, so as a pre-emptive measure, we're more likely (and more able) to talk to the customer about their tank, the appropriateness of their purchase, test their water quality and follow up in ways that an entity like DFS would find logistically impossible. Does that make them or us "the best?" No. It makes us different. However if you want to look at what is "best" for the fish, for the consumer and for the long term success of the industry... "best" becomes a whole different animal. Anyone can procure and sell livestock... but what method of selling has the best hobbyist retention rate? The turn and burn method, or the hand-holding method? A hobbyist is more likely to stay in the hobby longer (and therefore spend more) if he or she receives good sound advice and educates him/herself - and that is more likely to be encouraged in a good LFS. LFS will help a customer troubleshoot - where a mail order entity takes the orders, packs and ships them.

The type of value a B&M offers versus a mail order establishment are totally different. I've mentioned in other threads that it's an unreasonable comparison and I maintain that. We operate vastly differently.

If my customer's fish dies, it's more important to me to know *why* it died, not just to offer some kind of compensation. No I don't eat a loss for customer error or ignorance, but if it's because of something I should have questioned them on or something I could have forseen as a problem, then I compensate the customer. It's not just enough to eat up the financial loss - it's about preventing it from happening again. It's fine to replace dead fishes but if a customer keeps experiencing loss after senseless loss, he/she is going to quit the hobby sooner rather than later.

Race Foster is a hell of a businessman - of that there is no doubt. It seems that he does good business, and lots of it. However for me, it's more than just about business - it's a passion and love of the hobby. That passion and love of the hobby won't pay the bills, but combined with a decent business plan and some common sense, it's a living - and I can still look at myself in the mirror each day.

And I know Race and Co. isn't getting *all* the cherries because he doesn't buy from the same supplier that I do. And if he did, I'd no longer support that supplier.

Jenn