Deepthroat letter from the Philippines re; MAC
- Thread starter clarionreef
- Start date
- Status
Race,
You probably need to check with Burton Patrick for the answer to that. I think it was something to do with dropshipping. Does Morgan do that? I'm not even sure any of the BOD was aware Jack's was Pet Solutions. I didn't realize it. When did your retail store open? Were you strickly adhereing to all the standards below?
Mitch
Standards of Practice
Presented by the
American Marinelife Dealers Association
First Edition compiled and submitted by Rick Oellers
MACNA X Conference, Long Beach, CA
25 September 1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following are the standards that the American Marinelife Dealers Association members
pledge to abide by, in order to promote environmentally responsible marine aquarium keeping.
Techniques of captive husbandry to insure welfare of fish and habitat - Routine care of fish (applies to all establishments holding marine fish):
Records of mortalities should be maintained relating to particular batches where reasonably practical.
Animals shall at all times be kept in accommodations that are adequate in construction, size, amenities and position in the premises:
No fish should be exposed to excessive light or heat, or lack of adequate warmth.
No fish or other organism should be subject to rapid fluctuation in light, heat or chemical composition of their water, other than for the controlled treatment of disease or part of a controlled breeding program.
All holding systems should be sized so that visual inspections are easily carried out.
Holding systems are checked daily and cleaned as often as necessary to maintain good hygiene standards, consistent with the rate of stock turnover and consequent stocking densities.
Particular attention should be paid to removal of uneaten food and moralities, as both of these can release ammonia as they decay.
The filtration system, whether internal or external, should be maintained in efficient order. The performance of the filter should be checked by chemical analysis using commercially available test kits to meet water quality standards.
Fish and other aquatic organisms should be displayed in a manner which precludes interference by unauthorized people as far as is reasonably practical.
Food should be offered to fish on a regular basis, taking into account the water temperature and the biology of the species concerned. Food should be stored in impervious closed containers which can, when necessary and appropriate, be cleaned easily. Good hygiene, in this area will minimize the risk of insect or rodent infestation.
Stocking densities: it is virtually impossible to determine the quantity of fish to be kept in a system purely on a weight or number of fish per unit volume or area of water surface area. The variation in holding systems used quality of husbandry and types of fish stocked vary so greatly that it would render any such system to complicated to be useful. The maintenance of water quality standards can be used to determine working stocking densities.
Water quality should be assessed regularly and managed so that the following criteria can be maintained.
Dissolved oxygen:
Free ammonia (NH3):
Nitrite (NO2):
Nitrate (NO3):
PH: 6.9 mg/l min
0.01 mg/l max.
0.125 mg/l max.
40 mg/l absolute
8.1 min. Systems should be designed to maintain these criteria irrespective of stocking and husbandry functions.
Collectors
Specimens from the wild have been collected using legal, ethical techniques which do not damage the ecosystem.
The use of hand nets, barrier nets and tickler sticks, if expertly used are acceptable. Collectors should be able to demonstrate appropriate training and/or skill in these captive techniques. Training in the use of scuba, hook or other diving gear should be provided.
Illegal destructive fishing techniques include the use of sodium cyanide shall not be applied. Nor will AMDA collectors knowingly purchase specimens collected in an illegal manner for resale.
Verifiable "Chain of Custody." A record of fish bought and sold, except retail sale, including information on source and destination should be maintained. This may be in the form if invoices and orders. Techniques to provide a supply chain should include:
legal aspects of captive holding, transport and sale of fish
use of diving equipment
water quality: fish health handling, disease identification and remedies
advice on the biology and care of species sold
Marine specimens shown not to survive in captivity should not be caught, unless for research.
Importer/Carrier Responsibilities
Wholesalers and retailers importing directly (transshipped) should be able to demonstrate that they have taken steps to ensure that minimal guidelines are followed, as in the following:
Fish are packed so that they will survive 48 hours in transit, once accepted by the airlines (carrier)
The importer must accept primary responsibility for any consigned order, once it has been sent, in good faith, under all circumstances. Late arrival does not absolve the importer from this responsibility.
Make all efforts to expedite the shipment
Delays should be avoided
Packages should not be opened in transit unless survival of the fish is threatened
If they must be opened do so in dim light, with appropriate temperature, any top off water should be consistent with the packing water (test it first).
Importers will try to not purchase marine specimens shown to not survive in captivity, unless for research.
Wholesalers Responsibilities
Unpacking imported fish applies in various situations, any facility directly importing fish should be able to provide the appropriate conditions and staff to care for the fish as needed.
Unpack the shipment promptly on arrival.
Suitably trained or experienced staff should be available to unpack the new shipment.
Unpack in dim light conditions.
Acclimate to the physical and chemical water conditions on the holding facility using all practical means, with special attention to pH, temperature and ammonia (NH3).
Fish showing overt signs of distress, injury or disease should be treated as appropriate. These fish should not be sold, and should be removed from public view.
All reasonable precautions must be taken to prevent the outbreak and spread of disease, including disinfecting nets, using separate nets for different tanks, UV filtration, and/or tank isolation.
Record of disease outbreak, treatments and moralities should be kept, and related to particular batches when possible.
Packing materials should be disposed of hygienically or disinfected if being re-used.
Newly received fish should be held separate from previously held stock, clearly marked and rested for a minimum of 48 hours, or until normal behavior and feeding patterns return.
Routine care of fish: applies to all establishments holding fish.
Wholesalers will try to not purchase marine specimens shown to not survive in captivity, unless for research.
When possible, wholesalers will purchase tank raised (captive bred) fish and invertebrates, rather than purchasing wild caught specimens.
Fish should be transported by the quickest practical means, packed to survive at least 150% of the estimated travel time.
Retailers Responsibilities
Accept responsibility for any fish ordered, even if delayed. After hours contact should be made available.
Unpack fish promptly, in dim light, and acclimated as previously designed.
Hold new fish separately from currently "in stock" fish, clearly marked and rested 48 hours or until normal behavior and feeding resumes..
Dispose of used packing materials, properly or disinfect used materials if they are to be re-used.
Acclimate new fish to holding system water and feed with appropriate food prior to selling.
Regard to the physical and behavior needs of each fish.
Use all reasonable precautions to prevent disease outbreak and spread, including the above mentioned means.
Treat appropriately any fish showing signs of disease and/or distress.
Utilize antibiotics with the guidance of a veterinarian.
Assess the water quality on a regular basis.
Keep records of fish purchased.
Keep records of fish moralities.
Not offer marine specimens shown to not survive in captivity, unless for research.
Offer captive raised specimens (when available) rather than sell wild stock.
Make available the special dietary needs for the fish to the hobbyist (consumer) to purchase.
Have their unsupervised staff to take and pass the AMDA Knowledge Assessment Test in order to provide the information the consumer needs to maintain a healthy aquarium and to reach a standard of consistency within the hobby and industry.
Retail Sales
All fish should be in good health, i.e. eating and swimming normally and not be exhibiting external signs of disease. Before sale a careful visual examination of fish should be done, with any abnormalities noted and treated. Records should be kept.
Any specimen with obvious abnormality(s), which could affect its quality of life, should not be offered for sale.
Fish should be caught in a manner to reduce stress and avoid physical damage.
Ensure that the customer purchases fish suitable for the aquarium intended.
Enable the staff a full range of books to be available for reference and senior staff should be available for consultation to the staff and customer.
Customers should be informed of risks associated with venomous or harmful species, including first aid measures.
Regarding transportation of the fish by the customers:
The fish should be placed in appropriate containers (bags large enough for the fish to turn around) with sufficient oxygen, water and if necessary insulation to protect from temperature variations.
Instructions for proper acclimation for the fish upon arrival of it’s new home.
After sales advice and support should remain available to the customer.
The customer should be given accurate instructions for the care and welfare of the animal purchased.
Records of moralities should be kept to track trends in location, species and disease problems for future reference.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
American Marinelife Dealers Association
Copyright © 2002 All rights reserved
Last modification: 09 April 2001
You probably need to check with Burton Patrick for the answer to that. I think it was something to do with dropshipping. Does Morgan do that? I'm not even sure any of the BOD was aware Jack's was Pet Solutions. I didn't realize it. When did your retail store open? Were you strickly adhereing to all the standards below?
Mitch
Standards of Practice
Presented by the
American Marinelife Dealers Association
First Edition compiled and submitted by Rick Oellers
MACNA X Conference, Long Beach, CA
25 September 1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following are the standards that the American Marinelife Dealers Association members
pledge to abide by, in order to promote environmentally responsible marine aquarium keeping.
Techniques of captive husbandry to insure welfare of fish and habitat - Routine care of fish (applies to all establishments holding marine fish):
Records of mortalities should be maintained relating to particular batches where reasonably practical.
Animals shall at all times be kept in accommodations that are adequate in construction, size, amenities and position in the premises:
No fish should be exposed to excessive light or heat, or lack of adequate warmth.
No fish or other organism should be subject to rapid fluctuation in light, heat or chemical composition of their water, other than for the controlled treatment of disease or part of a controlled breeding program.
All holding systems should be sized so that visual inspections are easily carried out.
Holding systems are checked daily and cleaned as often as necessary to maintain good hygiene standards, consistent with the rate of stock turnover and consequent stocking densities.
Particular attention should be paid to removal of uneaten food and moralities, as both of these can release ammonia as they decay.
The filtration system, whether internal or external, should be maintained in efficient order. The performance of the filter should be checked by chemical analysis using commercially available test kits to meet water quality standards.
Fish and other aquatic organisms should be displayed in a manner which precludes interference by unauthorized people as far as is reasonably practical.
Food should be offered to fish on a regular basis, taking into account the water temperature and the biology of the species concerned. Food should be stored in impervious closed containers which can, when necessary and appropriate, be cleaned easily. Good hygiene, in this area will minimize the risk of insect or rodent infestation.
Stocking densities: it is virtually impossible to determine the quantity of fish to be kept in a system purely on a weight or number of fish per unit volume or area of water surface area. The variation in holding systems used quality of husbandry and types of fish stocked vary so greatly that it would render any such system to complicated to be useful. The maintenance of water quality standards can be used to determine working stocking densities.
Water quality should be assessed regularly and managed so that the following criteria can be maintained.
Dissolved oxygen:
Free ammonia (NH3):
Nitrite (NO2):
Nitrate (NO3):
PH: 6.9 mg/l min
0.01 mg/l max.
0.125 mg/l max.
40 mg/l absolute
8.1 min. Systems should be designed to maintain these criteria irrespective of stocking and husbandry functions.
Collectors
Specimens from the wild have been collected using legal, ethical techniques which do not damage the ecosystem.
The use of hand nets, barrier nets and tickler sticks, if expertly used are acceptable. Collectors should be able to demonstrate appropriate training and/or skill in these captive techniques. Training in the use of scuba, hook or other diving gear should be provided.
Illegal destructive fishing techniques include the use of sodium cyanide shall not be applied. Nor will AMDA collectors knowingly purchase specimens collected in an illegal manner for resale.
Verifiable "Chain of Custody." A record of fish bought and sold, except retail sale, including information on source and destination should be maintained. This may be in the form if invoices and orders. Techniques to provide a supply chain should include:
legal aspects of captive holding, transport and sale of fish
use of diving equipment
water quality: fish health handling, disease identification and remedies
advice on the biology and care of species sold
Marine specimens shown not to survive in captivity should not be caught, unless for research.
Importer/Carrier Responsibilities
Wholesalers and retailers importing directly (transshipped) should be able to demonstrate that they have taken steps to ensure that minimal guidelines are followed, as in the following:
Fish are packed so that they will survive 48 hours in transit, once accepted by the airlines (carrier)
The importer must accept primary responsibility for any consigned order, once it has been sent, in good faith, under all circumstances. Late arrival does not absolve the importer from this responsibility.
Make all efforts to expedite the shipment
Delays should be avoided
Packages should not be opened in transit unless survival of the fish is threatened
If they must be opened do so in dim light, with appropriate temperature, any top off water should be consistent with the packing water (test it first).
Importers will try to not purchase marine specimens shown to not survive in captivity, unless for research.
Wholesalers Responsibilities
Unpacking imported fish applies in various situations, any facility directly importing fish should be able to provide the appropriate conditions and staff to care for the fish as needed.
Unpack the shipment promptly on arrival.
Suitably trained or experienced staff should be available to unpack the new shipment.
Unpack in dim light conditions.
Acclimate to the physical and chemical water conditions on the holding facility using all practical means, with special attention to pH, temperature and ammonia (NH3).
Fish showing overt signs of distress, injury or disease should be treated as appropriate. These fish should not be sold, and should be removed from public view.
All reasonable precautions must be taken to prevent the outbreak and spread of disease, including disinfecting nets, using separate nets for different tanks, UV filtration, and/or tank isolation.
Record of disease outbreak, treatments and moralities should be kept, and related to particular batches when possible.
Packing materials should be disposed of hygienically or disinfected if being re-used.
Newly received fish should be held separate from previously held stock, clearly marked and rested for a minimum of 48 hours, or until normal behavior and feeding patterns return.
Routine care of fish: applies to all establishments holding fish.
Wholesalers will try to not purchase marine specimens shown to not survive in captivity, unless for research.
When possible, wholesalers will purchase tank raised (captive bred) fish and invertebrates, rather than purchasing wild caught specimens.
Fish should be transported by the quickest practical means, packed to survive at least 150% of the estimated travel time.
Retailers Responsibilities
Accept responsibility for any fish ordered, even if delayed. After hours contact should be made available.
Unpack fish promptly, in dim light, and acclimated as previously designed.
Hold new fish separately from currently "in stock" fish, clearly marked and rested 48 hours or until normal behavior and feeding resumes..
Dispose of used packing materials, properly or disinfect used materials if they are to be re-used.
Acclimate new fish to holding system water and feed with appropriate food prior to selling.
Regard to the physical and behavior needs of each fish.
Use all reasonable precautions to prevent disease outbreak and spread, including the above mentioned means.
Treat appropriately any fish showing signs of disease and/or distress.
Utilize antibiotics with the guidance of a veterinarian.
Assess the water quality on a regular basis.
Keep records of fish purchased.
Keep records of fish moralities.
Not offer marine specimens shown to not survive in captivity, unless for research.
Offer captive raised specimens (when available) rather than sell wild stock.
Make available the special dietary needs for the fish to the hobbyist (consumer) to purchase.
Have their unsupervised staff to take and pass the AMDA Knowledge Assessment Test in order to provide the information the consumer needs to maintain a healthy aquarium and to reach a standard of consistency within the hobby and industry.
Retail Sales
All fish should be in good health, i.e. eating and swimming normally and not be exhibiting external signs of disease. Before sale a careful visual examination of fish should be done, with any abnormalities noted and treated. Records should be kept.
Any specimen with obvious abnormality(s), which could affect its quality of life, should not be offered for sale.
Fish should be caught in a manner to reduce stress and avoid physical damage.
Ensure that the customer purchases fish suitable for the aquarium intended.
Enable the staff a full range of books to be available for reference and senior staff should be available for consultation to the staff and customer.
Customers should be informed of risks associated with venomous or harmful species, including first aid measures.
Regarding transportation of the fish by the customers:
The fish should be placed in appropriate containers (bags large enough for the fish to turn around) with sufficient oxygen, water and if necessary insulation to protect from temperature variations.
Instructions for proper acclimation for the fish upon arrival of it’s new home.
After sales advice and support should remain available to the customer.
The customer should be given accurate instructions for the care and welfare of the animal purchased.
Records of moralities should be kept to track trends in location, species and disease problems for future reference.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
American Marinelife Dealers Association
Copyright © 2002 All rights reserved
Last modification: 09 April 2001
As a member aren't you supposed to know? You seem to have researched me quite heavily--- or did you simply pass judgement ?
What really gets me is that AMDA seems to treat me as an outsider when in fact I know a whole lot more than it's members do-- about the members. Imagine that.
In fact, I also know more about the industry because I do my homework and I have personally studied the histories ( past and present) of the significant players. I am not on any witch hunt but I have always believed in strength through knowledge. I am more then ready for a mudslide.
Come on Steve, rally the herd because the lion is a commin.
Just me , Race
What really gets me is that AMDA seems to treat me as an outsider when in fact I know a whole lot more than it's members do-- about the members. Imagine that.
In fact, I also know more about the industry because I do my homework and I have personally studied the histories ( past and present) of the significant players. I am not on any witch hunt but I have always believed in strength through knowledge. I am more then ready for a mudslide.
Come on Steve, rally the herd because the lion is a commin.
Just me , Race
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
When I went to sleep last nite there was a positive momentum.and an agenda to involve hobby clubs with field initiatives.
By this morning it was all about the old AMDA and dropshipping again.
Lions coming....??? Huh :roll:
See new AMDA THREAD
This ones about another issue.
Once again...its not about you or me!
Steve
By this morning it was all about the old AMDA and dropshipping again.
Lions coming....??? Huh :roll:
See new AMDA THREAD
This ones about another issue.
Once again...its not about you or me!
Steve
Race,
Let's just try and get along. We probably do have plenty of common ground, so let's try and find it. I think everyone gets the point that I don't like the dropshipping game. I know etail is here to stay. You do it smart and make tons of money so my hat is off to you.
Mitch
Let's just try and get along. We probably do have plenty of common ground, so let's try and find it. I think everyone gets the point that I don't like the dropshipping game. I know etail is here to stay. You do it smart and make tons of money so my hat is off to you.
Mitch
Regarding hobby clubs:
How many of you actively participate on the BOD of any marine societies? I am fairly confident that the amount of money that could possibly come from such a resource is being grossly overestimated.
By the way, I have been on the BOD of my local marine club in some capacity for at least 8 years now, work closely with several other regional clubs, and have been visiting another club nationally to speak at least once per month for going on two years now. Most of these organizations have a few hundred to maybe a couple of thousands of dollars at any given moment.
How many of you actively participate on the BOD of any marine societies? I am fairly confident that the amount of money that could possibly come from such a resource is being grossly overestimated.
By the way, I have been on the BOD of my local marine club in some capacity for at least 8 years now, work closely with several other regional clubs, and have been visiting another club nationally to speak at least once per month for going on two years now. Most of these organizations have a few hundred to maybe a couple of thousands of dollars at any given moment.
Mitch,
I do respect you and your opinions and I am more than willing to find the common ground.
The problem that I have is that there will never be a constructive forum as long as Steve is allowed to bark . He wants the Philippines , he can have the Philippines. One way or another, with or without Steve or AMDA ,I will participate in the show in this country.
Steve, at times parasites can be quite resistant . Now that you have identified me as a parasite ( on this very board) ,God only knows how you will ever get rid of me.
Come on guys why is nobody coming to Steve's defense ? Who actually agrees with his rhetoric ? Lets get it all out in the open as the parasite wants to know. Jenn quit scrubbing tanks and get in here. You always have all of the answers. Lets hear it.
I do not know what politically correct is . I just call a spade a spade and always will.
Race
I do respect you and your opinions and I am more than willing to find the common ground.
The problem that I have is that there will never be a constructive forum as long as Steve is allowed to bark . He wants the Philippines , he can have the Philippines. One way or another, with or without Steve or AMDA ,I will participate in the show in this country.
Steve, at times parasites can be quite resistant . Now that you have identified me as a parasite ( on this very board) ,God only knows how you will ever get rid of me.
Come on guys why is nobody coming to Steve's defense ? Who actually agrees with his rhetoric ? Lets get it all out in the open as the parasite wants to know. Jenn quit scrubbing tanks and get in here. You always have all of the answers. Lets hear it.
I do not know what politically correct is . I just call a spade a spade and always will.
Race
aquaticvet1":k4140dmq said:
Then ignore him and have a constructive conversation with others.
This is just fuel for the fire Race. If you are truly interested in constructive discussion, stop baiting Steve.
More baiting. I see no point in it. If you don't like the way Steve acts, why are you acting the same way?
Great. It seems though in your last few posts you are more interested in riling people up for the purpose of riling them up. Your opinions are great, they way you are currently choosing to express them is verging on trolling, which will only continue to drag down this forum.
Race, I would appreciate a less combative attitude. If you have past issues with members of this forum (of which I am unaware and with which I am unconcerned) please take these to PM as they do nothing to help this forum stay productive. Thx-Jim
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