Lets work together
- Thread starter PeterIMA
- Start date
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Code breakers are needed more and more nowdays in our little reform dramas.
He said; 'The money train is leaving the station with or without a fair and balanced representation of the industry on board.
...and it would behoove the industry to get on board."
Remember when MAMTI was a fig newton of your imagination...in a pointy aluminum hat and.... now its an inevitability.
To take it seriously we'd need to know how personel changes are evolving at the senior management levels of the MAMTI round table.
Its as good as its people and their intentions...no more.... no less.
So we need to know the players these days.
Ya see Mitch, these eco-scientologists who lernt how to get money from our issues and our problems actually think that elaborate plans on paper work themselves ...by themselves and that people and people skills are secondary.
They will indeed leave the station half baked and doomed to fail and will then blame us for withholding the talent and wherewithall to actually do the job.
Many think that MAMTI is all dressed up with no where to go as well and if their PAST performance in Indo is any indication of their skills level, they will fall harder then MAC.
Indeed, where they end and MAC begins is another puzzle. Or where MAC ends and they begin.
At the moment, they are still a budget in search of an achievement, a workable plan and secret to the success that has eluded them so far. They and MAC share dozens of failures among themselves now when dealing with villages so they don't actually belong in this thing if merit were any criteria. They have bought their way in ...and thats different then earning your way in.
I remember environmentalists would always cry that "if they only had money how easy things would be to win."
NOW IT SEEMS THAT MONEY IS ALL THEY HAVE.
To take any of this stuff seriously requires far more transparence then we have seen and straight talk as equals.
First and foremost is who is the leader that we would need to deal with across the table. If you can't get a answer one on that, how can you go futher?
Mark....Dave where do you guys fit in with any of this???
And where is the head of Alfredo Garcia that we asked for as a sign of good faith?
Steve
He said; 'The money train is leaving the station with or without a fair and balanced representation of the industry on board.
...and it would behoove the industry to get on board."
Remember when MAMTI was a fig newton of your imagination...in a pointy aluminum hat and.... now its an inevitability.
To take it seriously we'd need to know how personel changes are evolving at the senior management levels of the MAMTI round table.
Its as good as its people and their intentions...no more.... no less.
So we need to know the players these days.
Ya see Mitch, these eco-scientologists who lernt how to get money from our issues and our problems actually think that elaborate plans on paper work themselves ...by themselves and that people and people skills are secondary.
They will indeed leave the station half baked and doomed to fail and will then blame us for withholding the talent and wherewithall to actually do the job.
Many think that MAMTI is all dressed up with no where to go as well and if their PAST performance in Indo is any indication of their skills level, they will fall harder then MAC.
Indeed, where they end and MAC begins is another puzzle. Or where MAC ends and they begin.
At the moment, they are still a budget in search of an achievement, a workable plan and secret to the success that has eluded them so far. They and MAC share dozens of failures among themselves now when dealing with villages so they don't actually belong in this thing if merit were any criteria. They have bought their way in ...and thats different then earning your way in.
I remember environmentalists would always cry that "if they only had money how easy things would be to win."
NOW IT SEEMS THAT MONEY IS ALL THEY HAVE.
To take any of this stuff seriously requires far more transparence then we have seen and straight talk as equals.
First and foremost is who is the leader
Mark....Dave where do you guys fit in with any of this???
And where is the head of Alfredo Garcia that we asked for as a sign of good faith?
Steve
Newbie alert.
Thank you to all of you who wrote welcome notes. They were much appreciated. Helped my cold feet to warm up too.
I hope I can contribute positively to the discussions. Please excuse any early ignorance.
Where to start?
Is there a way that we can list our major concerns? Discuss how they intersect and interact and seek possible solutions in an organized and positive way. Develop workable ideas and solutions that can be adaopted and implemented by the trade, MAC, AMDA and others, and are supportable by donors and the market. We could work on common sense solutions that help unite the trade, all parts of the trade, instead of dividing it.
This trade is not that strong politically. But it is that important. There is no better nor more effective tool available to coral reef conservationists than this trade but to quote Spiderman's Uncle, "With great power comes great responsibility." We owe it to the world's coral reefs and the communities that depend on them to help find solutions to internal trade problems that are inclusive, adaptable and equitable.
I would really like to be part of this kind of forum discussion. Thanks.
David
Thank you to all of you who wrote welcome notes. They were much appreciated. Helped my cold feet to warm up too.
I hope I can contribute positively to the discussions. Please excuse any early ignorance.
Where to start?
Is there a way that we can list our major concerns? Discuss how they intersect and interact and seek possible solutions in an organized and positive way. Develop workable ideas and solutions that can be adaopted and implemented by the trade, MAC, AMDA and others, and are supportable by donors and the market. We could work on common sense solutions that help unite the trade, all parts of the trade, instead of dividing it.
This trade is not that strong politically. But it is that important. There is no better nor more effective tool available to coral reef conservationists than this trade but to quote Spiderman's Uncle, "With great power comes great responsibility." We owe it to the world's coral reefs and the communities that depend on them to help find solutions to internal trade problems that are inclusive, adaptable and equitable.
I would really like to be part of this kind of forum discussion. Thanks.
David
David,
Just another warm welcome to the forum. For anyone who didn't know, David Vossler played a key role in working with Sea Dwelling Creatures to help gain MAC Certification. He worked with us on the more difficult parts of the manuals and basically set up all our flow charts and paperwork that needed to be done.
Anyone interested in his services I can personally highly recommend him.
Thanks again David...your presence here is awesome!
Best regards
Eric
Just another warm welcome to the forum. For anyone who didn't know, David Vossler played a key role in working with Sea Dwelling Creatures to help gain MAC Certification. He worked with us on the more difficult parts of the manuals and basically set up all our flow charts and paperwork that needed to be done.
Anyone interested in his services I can personally highly recommend him.
Thanks again David...your presence here is awesome!
Best regards
Eric
Can't belive no one put that one out for yah Dave Mitch,
Hope this is decoded for you... 8)
I really enjoyed the experience I had while working in the Philippines and Indonesia, especially at the village level, it definitely was a life changing experience. Because of that experience and my love of nature, I am very much committed to work with others to preserve the reefs and thier communities while also working to preserve this wonderful hobby that allows these wonders to be experienced by so many more throughout the world. I am working on a couple of projects (getting back to work).
What I feel needs to be done:
Based on my recent experience, I feel that one of the big missing links in previous projects/trainings was the lack of attention to the live food fishers that often collect aquarium fish as well..... These fishers also need training in less destructive live food fishing practices.... All of this is only a part of much needed community education.... especially including marine education in ALL public schools K-12 around the world.
Fortunately for this industry, it CAN and HAS(some companies really contribute to their communities, pers. exp./comm.) helped resolve some of these needs and issues; but there is much to yet to do and much change will be required.
Hope this is decoded for you... 8)
I really enjoyed the experience I had while working in the Philippines and Indonesia, especially at the village level, it definitely was a life changing experience. Because of that experience and my love of nature, I am very much committed to work with others to preserve the reefs and thier communities while also working to preserve this wonderful hobby that allows these wonders to be experienced by so many more throughout the world. I am working on a couple of projects (getting back to work).
What I feel needs to be done:
Based on my recent experience, I feel that one of the big missing links in previous projects/trainings was the lack of attention to the live food fishers that often collect aquarium fish as well..... These fishers also need training in less destructive live food fishing practices.... All of this is only a part of much needed community education.... especially including marine education in ALL public schools K-12 around the world.
Fortunately for this industry, it CAN and HAS(some companies really contribute to their communities, pers. exp./comm.) helped resolve some of these needs and issues; but there is much to yet to do and much change will be required.
Hey Mark,
I know, I should probably take this to PM, but... Do you know if anyone (Lynn/Jason?) has picked up "the education thing" around home since you left?
I'm moving back this weekend and plan to get involved this way (the new club in Lansing supposely made this a part of their "mission statement" as well..) - Any help you could throw out there (if you're not/haven't already) would be greatly appreciated.
Norm
I know, I should probably take this to PM, but... Do you know if anyone (Lynn/Jason?) has picked up "the education thing" around home since you left?
I'm moving back this weekend and plan to get involved this way (the new club in Lansing supposely made this a part of their "mission statement" as well..) - Any help you could throw out there (if you're not/haven't already) would be greatly appreciated.
Norm
Norm
I think this is fine on the BB; I feel any thing involving marne ed. efforts is relevant and should be public... (it actually rubs off on others... 8) )
I think Lynne is still doing some of that and there are a couple of teachers I helped get started at Portage Central High School who are really making marine education an important part of the curriculum there and elsewhere. And of course my old friends Amy and Sue in Allegan who have been at it for years. If your curiuous, check out Allegan County Area Math and Science Center.
Also, a former (or maybe still) WMMAC member and hobbyist is teaching in Hartford MI and has used reef aquaria to bring marine education to that school. This is some of the really good stuff the hobby/industry does to help raise awareness and inspire teaching of marine education.
Are you ready for spring?
Cheers,
Mark
I think this is fine on the BB; I feel any thing involving marne ed. efforts is relevant and should be public... (it actually rubs off on others... 8) )
I think Lynne is still doing some of that and there are a couple of teachers I helped get started at Portage Central High School who are really making marine education an important part of the curriculum there and elsewhere. And of course my old friends Amy and Sue in Allegan who have been at it for years. If your curiuous, check out Allegan County Area Math and Science Center.
Also, a former (or maybe still) WMMAC member and hobbyist is teaching in Hartford MI and has used reef aquaria to bring marine education to that school. This is some of the really good stuff the hobby/industry does to help raise awareness and inspire teaching of marine education.
Are you ready for spring?
Cheers,
Mark
Mark,
Back in the late 90's I had the opportunity of working in the Philippines with ornamental fish collectors in their communities. One of the main problems I found was the way collectors were keeping their net caught fishes. Fish were kept in small plastic bags for extended periods of time. Is there any change in the way collectors are keeping their fish at community level? How are the Indonesian collectors keeping their fishes?
Back in the late 90's I had the opportunity of working in the Philippines with ornamental fish collectors in their communities. One of the main problems I found was the way collectors were keeping their net caught fishes. Fish were kept in small plastic bags for extended periods of time. Is there any change in the way collectors are keeping their fish at community level? How are the Indonesian collectors keeping their fishes?
Jaime,
IME, most Philippine collectors coordinators (the middlemen who buy from the collectors and sell to the exporter) keep their fish in bags usually in a hut or under shelter from the sun. The practice and frequency of water changes certainly dictactes and affects their health very quickly. Most of the villages I worked in had floating or suspended sea cages to hold the fish in the ocean but not all used them regularly as it is a bit more work than just holding fish in bags and NOT WORRYING about them until shipment. Some species actually do better isolated in a bag but frequent water changes are important, especially the first few days... Sometimes fish are held in these bags for several days....
It is becoming more common knowledge that much of the damage to fish is due to ammonia poisoning in that first bag.....
Where did you work in Phils Jaime?
working in Indonesia,I found the fish are held in land based tanks, often concrete or plastic. In Bali, the transport from collection/holding area to the exporter is often very bumpy, also up and down mountains.... I feel the land based systems in Indo are no better than bag holding, maybe even worse for the fish as water quality is still questionable and I believe the systems can harbor disease/parasites....
IME, most Philippine collectors coordinators (the middlemen who buy from the collectors and sell to the exporter) keep their fish in bags usually in a hut or under shelter from the sun. The practice and frequency of water changes certainly dictactes and affects their health very quickly. Most of the villages I worked in had floating or suspended sea cages to hold the fish in the ocean but not all used them regularly as it is a bit more work than just holding fish in bags and NOT WORRYING about them until shipment. Some species actually do better isolated in a bag but frequent water changes are important, especially the first few days... Sometimes fish are held in these bags for several days....
It is becoming more common knowledge that much of the damage to fish is due to ammonia poisoning in that first bag.....
Where did you work in Phils Jaime?
working in Indonesia,I found the fish are held in land based tanks, often concrete or plastic. In Bali, the transport from collection/holding area to the exporter is often very bumpy, also up and down mountains.... I feel the land based systems in Indo are no better than bag holding, maybe even worse for the fish as water quality is still questionable and I believe the systems can harbor disease/parasites....
Mark,
I worked mainly in communities in the province of Zambales. I am asking about this issue because I think most of the mortality of net caught fish is due to poor handling and holding at community level. Physiological damage is evident only later at exporters , importers, retailers and aquarium hobbyists tanks.
Did you know of any booklet produced to educate collectors about handling and holding fish at community level?
If there is not one available it could be an idea to get some funds to produce one to be distributed in the communities.
Just an idea.
I worked mainly in communities in the province of Zambales. I am asking about this issue because I think most of the mortality of net caught fish is due to poor handling and holding at community level. Physiological damage is evident only later at exporters , importers, retailers and aquarium hobbyists tanks.
Did you know of any booklet produced to educate collectors about handling and holding fish at community level?
If there is not one available it could be an idea to get some funds to produce one to be distributed in the communities.
Just an idea.
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
Mark,
When trying to pm you, the message reads out as follows;
[email protected] is no longer a valid email address. Any correspondence please send it to [email protected].
Administrator
Marine Aquarium Council
sending thoughts to you via abraham....the new overseer at MAC that no one here knows about isn't going to cut it.
Steve
When trying to pm you, the message reads out as follows;
[email protected] is no longer a valid email address. Any correspondence please send it to [email protected].
Administrator
Marine Aquarium Council
sending thoughts to you via abraham....the new overseer at MAC that no one here knows about isn't going to cut it.
Steve
clarionreef
Advanced Reefer
- Location
- San Francisco
First MAC then MAMTI and now TMAT????
TRANSFORMING THE MARINE AQUARIUM TRADE IN THE PHILIPPINES (TMAT)
BACKGROUND
The Philippines, along with Indonesia, supplies the vast majority of marine ornamental fish exports, 98% of which come from the wild. The United States is the world’s largest importer of marine ornamentals. Unsustainable collecting practices and poor husbandry of aquarium organisms affect the potential for balancing reef health, sustainable fisheries, and development benefits. Certification and best practice standards can ensure that the trade in marine ornamentals is environmentally sound and sustainable and presents an unprecedented opportunity to contribute to the strategic needs for sustainable economy and environment in the Philippines.
Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) certified marine ornamentals are now moving through MAC certified chains of custody “ … from “reef to retail,” enabling consumers to identify and reward responsible businesses through their purchase of MAC certified marine aquarium organisms, i.e., those that were collected, handled and transported in a sustainable manner. These market forces can help achieve sustainable development in hundreds of coastal villages in the Philippines. The challenge now is to build on successful pilot efforts in order to build a critical mass of MAC certified collectors and collection areas in the Philippines.
Three critical issues must be addressed in the Philippines to mainstream certification:
1) Lack of training and insufficient skill levels at MAC to train collectors to become certified;
2) Inadequate stakeholder capacity to develop management for collection areas; and
3) Insufficient ability and capacity at MAC and its partners to mainstream certification.
PURPOSE
TMAT’s goal is to transform the marine aquarium trade in the Philippines to sustainability through MAC certification for marine ornamental collectors and collection areas. This MAC-led TMAT partnership will result in mainstreaming MAC certification by:
1) Ensuring collectors have the information and training to become MAC certified;
2) Ensuring community stakeholders are able to develop and implement MAC certified ecosystem management for collection areas; and
3) Ensuring MAC and its partners have the capacity to develop, coordinate, and implement the TMAT project.
ACTIVITIES
A MAC-led Alliance for “Transforming the Marine Aquarium Trade “TMAT” will address these needs through an innovative, multi-stakeholder program that brings together significant new collaboration, resources, and partners:
Philippine Tropical Fish Exporters Association (PTFEA);
U.S. Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC);
Marine Aquarium Societies of North America (MASNA);
World Wildlife Fund; Reef Check; and the
Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquaculture (BFAR).
These partnerships, and the economic incentives underlying environmental certification, will allow the results of these efforts to expand and be sustainable well beyond the three-year TMAT project. The TMAT project in the Philippines will build on the MAC pilot certification efforts and targeting collection areas/collectors groups for transformation at the following rate: First year -10 sites: Second year -20 sites; Third year -30 sites (for a total of 60 sites in three years).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MORE INFO
Cooperating Agency/Partner: Marine Aquarium Council
Period Covered: October 2003 to September 2006
Mechanism: Cooperative Agreement
Arun Abraham
Director of Asia Pacific Operations
6th Flr. Salustiana D. Ty Tower
Makati City, Metro Manila, Philippines
TELEFAX: (632) 817-9541
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TRANSFORMING THE MARINE AQUARIUM TRADE IN THE PHILIPPINES (TMAT)
BACKGROUND
The Philippines, along with Indonesia, supplies the vast majority of marine ornamental fish exports, 98% of which come from the wild. The United States is the world’s largest importer of marine ornamentals. Unsustainable collecting practices and poor husbandry of aquarium organisms affect the potential for balancing reef health, sustainable fisheries, and development benefits. Certification and best practice standards can ensure that the trade in marine ornamentals is environmentally sound and sustainable and presents an unprecedented opportunity to contribute to the strategic needs for sustainable economy and environment in the Philippines.
Marine Aquarium Council (MAC) certified marine ornamentals are now moving through MAC certified chains of custody “ … from “reef to retail,” enabling consumers to identify and reward responsible businesses through their purchase of MAC certified marine aquarium organisms, i.e., those that were collected, handled and transported in a sustainable manner. These market forces can help achieve sustainable development in hundreds of coastal villages in the Philippines. The challenge now is to build on successful pilot efforts in order to build a critical mass of MAC certified collectors and collection areas in the Philippines.
Three critical issues must be addressed in the Philippines to mainstream certification:
1) Lack of training and insufficient skill levels at MAC to train collectors to become certified;
2) Inadequate stakeholder capacity to develop management for collection areas; and
3) Insufficient ability and capacity at MAC and its partners to mainstream certification.
PURPOSE
TMAT’s goal is to transform the marine aquarium trade in the Philippines to sustainability through MAC certification for marine ornamental collectors and collection areas. This MAC-led TMAT partnership will result in mainstreaming MAC certification by:
1) Ensuring collectors have the information and training to become MAC certified;
2) Ensuring community stakeholders are able to develop and implement MAC certified ecosystem management for collection areas; and
3) Ensuring MAC and its partners have the capacity to develop, coordinate, and implement the TMAT project.
ACTIVITIES
A MAC-led Alliance for “Transforming the Marine Aquarium Trade “TMAT” will address these needs through an innovative, multi-stakeholder program that brings together significant new collaboration, resources, and partners:
Philippine Tropical Fish Exporters Association (PTFEA);
U.S. Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC);
Marine Aquarium Societies of North America (MASNA);
World Wildlife Fund; Reef Check; and the
Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquaculture (BFAR).
These partnerships, and the economic incentives underlying environmental certification, will allow the results of these efforts to expand and be sustainable well beyond the three-year TMAT project. The TMAT project in the Philippines will build on the MAC pilot certification efforts and targeting collection areas/collectors groups for transformation at the following rate: First year -10 sites: Second year -20 sites; Third year -30 sites (for a total of 60 sites in three years).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MORE INFO
Cooperating Agency/Partner: Marine Aquarium Council
Period Covered: October 2003 to September 2006
Mechanism: Cooperative Agreement
Arun Abraham
Director of Asia Pacific Operations
6th Flr. Salustiana D. Ty Tower
Makati City, Metro Manila, Philippines
TELEFAX: (632) 817-9541
[email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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