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StevenPro

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From the August 2006 issue of Pet Product News,

"Four adults and a youth have been arrested for using chlorine bleach to catch fish in Hawaiian waters, state Department of Land and Natural Resources reported. A boat and fishing gear were seized as evidence. The suspects are all from Hawaii.

Peter Young, DLNR chairman, told a newspaper that the seriousness of using any chlorine bleach-like substance to take marine life becomes apparent when considering the damaging effects that are associated with chemical fishing.

'Every fish, lobster, clam, crab, eel, worm and cowry shell exposed to the chemicals is killed, not just the target species being fished for, but all other living organisms in the vicinity as well,' Young said.

The use of any poisonous chlorine-like substances - including bleaches, bleaching crystals or bleaching powders - in the water where aquatic life can be affected is a felony punishable by a year in jail and fines up to $10,000."
 

Kalkbreath

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If "every fish and animal exposed is killed",
What was the target fish intended use?
Were theses fishermen killing fish for fun?
Aquarium fishermen collect fish alive.
So either every animal is not killed and the author is fanning the bleach fumes....or these fishermen were collecting to feed themselves on dead fish.
The fact that the article fails to tell the reader "why "the fisheremen were fishing in the first place is an blatant attempt to mislead the reader.
 

StevenPro

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WayneSallee

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Kalkbreath":2w4qqxw4 said:
If "every fish and animal exposed is killed",
What was the target fish intended use?
Were theses fishermen killing fish for fun?
Aquarium fishermen collect fish alive.
So either every animal is not killed and the author is fanning the bleach fumes....or these fishermen were collecting to feed themselves on dead fish.
The fact that the article fails to tell the reader "why "the fisheremen were fishing in the first place is an blatant attempt to mislead the reader.

The idea is that it gets the fish to swim out of the hiding spot, but those creatures that are not able to get out quickly die. Of course even the fish that swims out, is harmed, but if they can sell it before it shows any signs of harm, they can make money.

Wayne Sallee
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PeterIMA

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Kalkbreath, The last time we discussed chlorox fishing you implied that it was being used by the aquarium fish collectors. When I queried you about this, you did not reply. Now, Wayne also has implied that clorine bleach is being used by aquarium fish collectors. Is this a fact or idle speculation?

My postings indicated that chlorox was being used for capturing food fishes (by killing them). I am not aware that fish survive exposure to chlorine bleach.

Peter Rubec
 

Kalkbreath

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The first link is from 1997.
The second link talks about fish and lobster confiscated with the boat, fishing gear and truck.
I think had this been live aquarium fish , they would have talked about releasing the live aquarium fish back into the reef.
What was this doing in PET Product publication?
My tank service personel have killed fish this year with bleach.(by not fully rinsing the ornaments)
The idea that collectors could use it to collect anything but the biggest of fish without killing the fish outright or harming the tiny fishes gills to the point that the fish could never make it through the shipping to the Mainland is silly .
I still say that 99% of all the Marine Ornamental bleach fishing stories (like this one)are actually food fishermen (mostly for lobstsers) looking to get big food fish out of deep caves.

Tiny aquarium fish dont live in grouper holes anyhow .

Once again , is a "Smear" job without any justification as to how it applies to Our industry.
 

Kalkbreath

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Then we agree on something Peter.
The Bleach collecting thing has been pinned on our industry several times over the past twenty years.
Go ahead and attempt a re-inactment with bleach Peter,
I would love for lab tests to end this silly notion once and for all.
Hawaii needs to place size limits on fish for the trade.
That way when Bleach collectors are caught with lobsters and two foot long fish , there will not be this assummed asociation to the aquarium trade.
Breeder tangs are eaten by the hundreds daily in the tourists spots all about Hawaii.
More pounds of reef fish taken of the reef for seafood each week , then this trade collects per year.
Yet even when they catch food fishermen fishing with bleach (most likely to supply some hotel ).......they attempt to blame it NOT on their tourist industry .........but on the aqaurium trade.
 

WayneSallee

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Wasn't cyanide first used on food fish, and then later used in this industry?

marine.org says "IMA was originally founded in 1985, and for many years devoted most of its attention to exposing and combating the widespread use of cyanide to stun and capture live reef fish in the Philippines. This destructive practice was invented in the Philippines in the early 1960s for the capture of aquarium fish, and soon spread to the live reef food fishery, in which larger reef fish (primarily groupers) are exported mainly to Hong Kong and other cities in southern China"

Wayne Sallee
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PeterIMA

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Wayne,

As far as I know (by personally interviewing Earl Kennedy and Steve Robinson) cyanide was first used in the Philippines in 1962 off of Lubang Island, See also two Robinson articles in FAMA published in 1985). Cyanide was first used in the Philippines for capturing live food fishes in 1975 (source Steve Robinson report).

Dr. Don McAllister (rest his soul) asserted in an article that cyanide may have been used in Hong Kong prior to 1962. An article about this was published on the Live Reef Fish Information Bulletin.

Now, how about my question concerning whether or not aquarium fish collectors in Hawaii use chlorine bleach?

Peter Rubec
 

PeterIMA

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June 6, 2001
"The Tragedy of the Live Fish Trade: Part I"
Real Audio
28k

http://www.pbs.org/odyssey/voice/200106 ... cript.html

This is Roger Payne talking to you from the Odyssey in Papua New Guinea. One of the most destructive fishing practices ever developed is the use of explosives to stun fish-the trouble is that the impact of the explosion kills everything else in the vicinity of the target fish. On tropical reefs this means the coral, the starfish, the clams, the snails the nudibranchs-even the worms. But as destructive as it is, it is nothing alongside another fishing technique now far more widespread and which is devastating the world's reefs. This is cyanide fishing, in which a diver squirts cyanide into reef crevices, thus temporarily stunning whatever fish are present. The fish float to the surface and are easily scooped up in a net. Placed in small, plastic, holding containers, a small percentage of them eventually recover. However, so lucrative is this trade that a small percentage is enough to pay handsomely.

Live reef fish are harvested for two reasons:

1.) As food to be served in high-priced European, American and Asian restaurants, and
2.) To make it possible for aquarium owners in those same prosperous lands to impress their guests and clients with their pretty but artificial displays of tropical reef fish. Such displays are causing the utter destruction of coral reef environments half a world away
The destruction comes about because cyanide interacts with the most fundamental processes of metabolism, and kills all living things-plants as well as animals. Which means that everything that had the misfortune to be present when the cyanide was being applied also dies. This includes, most particularly, the corals; they are very sensitive to cyanide. They first exude mucous, apparently in an effort to purge themselves of the poison, but they die shortly thereafter. Coral heads are slow growing and big ones may be hundreds of years old. So even if we were able to stop cyanide fishing at once, it would not be until the year 2300 that our descendants would start to see coral heads the size of those that are being killed off by the hundreds of millions now.

The thing that is so devastating about cyanide fishing is what a vast area of reef a single person can destroy in a short time. Back in 1978 I had a curious brush with this kind of fishing, only it was Clorox fishing not cyanide fishing. I was working in Hawaii. One of the people assisting our project was a diver who had had various jobs around Hawaii. He had once even worked for a Navy program training dolphins to kill enemy frogmen… well, anyway, hopefully it would be enemy frogmen that got killed, though if the dolphin got confused maybe it would end up being a friendly frogmen, or even, perhaps, someone who worked for nobody's Navy-but all that's beside the point. When I met this fellow he no longer worked for the Navy, he had left, simply because he'd found a job that paid better.

Sometime after that he found a new source of income-fishing for reef fish that were a popular delicacy with Japanese people living in, and visiting Hawaii. He said he could have sold "any amount". The technique he used involved diving down onto the reef with a squeeze bottle filled with chlorine bleach, and when he saw a small school of the desired fish shooing them into some cavity in the coral and squirting a bit of chlorine bleach in after them. He'd wait a few minutes, then pick up the dazed and dying fish as they appeared at the entrance. He realized he was probably killing the reef because he had seen cavities in which he could remember having caught fish, but he had found that were now dead coral skeletons with no fish in them. He told me he had to keep moving around Hawaii in order to encounter healthy populations of fish "because they need undisturbed coral to live in." When I met him he had been doing this kind of fishing full time for several years and had just about completed a full circle of the big island. As incredible as it may seem this one man along with a handful of his fellow Clorox fishermen who sold fish to the same market, had apparently, unabetted, wiped out large sections of the entire reef around the big island of Hawaii (about 300 miles of reef). He has since left Hawaii. He found a job that paid better in Florida. "No problems."
In the Philippines there are an estimated 3,000 cyanide fishermen. Each one kills about 50 coral heads each day, and works about 225 days a year, the total coral heads thus killed in a year is about 34 million. But that's for just one year, and the technique was introduced in the 1950s. The total number of coral heads killed since then is closer to a billion (and that's just the Philippines). The pressure of the live, reef-fish trade has resulted in such shocking destruction of Philippine coral reefs, that even though that country has dominated the live fish trade until recently, its reefs are now so degraded they can no longer supply the demand. So the lead has passed to Indonesia, Sri Lanka, the Maldives, and parts of Micronesia, where, in every case, live fish capture is based on cyanide fishing-meaning that soon their reefs too will have been killed by this incredibly wasteful practice. Perhaps a clearer way to look at this scenario is that the area with the most fabled biodiversity in the oceans, the reefs of the Philippines, proved capable of supplying the world aquarium trade for only a few decades. Now that cyanide fishing has destroyed those reefs, the trade (still growing by leaps and bounds) is moving into other pristine reef areas throughout the world and destroying them in exactly the same way.

I will have more to say about this next time, but for now, so ends this day.

(c) 2001 Roger Payne



<< Back The Tragedy of the Live Fish Trade: Part II >>
 

PeterIMA

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June 28, 2001
"The Tragedy of the Live Fish Trade: Part II"
Real Audio
28k

http://www.pbs.org/odyssey/voice/200106 ... cript.html

Narrated by Chris Johnson

This is Chris Johnson talking to you from the Odyssey in Papua New Guinea. Roger Payne talked last time about cyanide fishing, in which reef fish caught for ornamental purposes or for eating are dazed with cyanide that also destroys the reefs by killing everything exposed to it, particularly the coral. The tragedy is that a live fish trade would be an excellent source of income for people in tropical countries which have coral reefs if only it was pursued sustainably and without destroying the reef habitat that the fish they depend on require. When the same species are caught using nets close to 98% of the fish reach transshipment points alive versus only about 30% for fish caught with cyanide (and of course, the reef stays healthy and continues to produce fish for the fisher… endlessly). The problem is that using nets is harder work, and the fishermen get, say, three fish for a day's work, rather than the three fish per hour they can get using cyanide.

The problem is not laws; it is enforcement. In most of the major areas cyanide fishing is illegal. But payoffs guarantee that those killing the reefs get to operate without restraint. And now, Big Business has moved in and can pay bigger bribes, and afford large vessels that can cruise for several weeks to distant undestroyed reefs, stay there for months and return to port with up to twenty tons of live fish-each animal in its own private plastic bag, and the reef on which it once lived left behind to die.

It is estimated that over 90% of the fish that are overcome by cyanide are either unmarketable, dead, or float away to die later. As for the few 'lucky' survivors, they are captured and left to revive in holding pens, each fish kept in its own plastic bag to keep it from fighting with or eating its neighbors.

It is clear plastic bags that make this market possible. They are sufficiently permeable to oxygen that a small fish gets enough through the walls of its bag. The vast majority of the fish that make it all the way to ornamental fish markets will die a few months later in living room tanks, having finally succumbed to their exposure to cyanide. For fish suppliers, having the fish they sell their customers die a few weeks after reaching their customers' tanks is pure gravy; it increases the demand for more fish.

Once a reef fish has been caught and bagged, it is held in crude, floating, net pens filled to the brim with plastic bags or plastic containers the size of your fist-a single fish trapped inside each one. Sometimes the fish remain in this state for days under the harsh tropical sun-something entirely alien to the lives they lived back on their home reef where cover was always nearby.

The Odyssey crew witnessed first hand the collection and holding of tropical reef fish in several remote island groups of the central tropical pacific. The local people told us these fish were bound for markets in Hawaii and North America where a single specimen of the more exotic species can fetch prices over 100 US dollars, even as high as $500. The local divers who collect the fish receive, of course, very little of this, usually just a few cents per fish. The big profits are made overseas.

The species we observed were the Lemonpeel and the Flame Angelfish. We found them in pens, that were suspended from red surface buoys, in tiny cramped quarters, floating helplessly, awaiting export aboard the weekly flight to the mainland. Several fish were already dead; probably those collected first, which had experienced the greatest exposure to heat and stress.

It was heartbreaking to peer into the plastic buckets and observe these small, exquisitely delicate creatures of inconceivably beautiful colors, imprisoned and doomed, and to know that nearby, their reef homes lay poisoned and dying.

It is easy to be critical of such shortsighted practices, but people in developing nations need alternatives. It is all very well to blame the selfish fishermen or the callous, live-fish marketers for this problem, criticizing them for their short-sightedness and damning their officials for accepting bribes, but it is we, the heedless consumers who are the ultimate architects of wasteful industries like this-because it is we who create the markets that make them possible. And what causes us to do this? It is our ignorance and our insatiable addiction to an oblivious lifestyle that is its genesis. We find it ever so convenient to assume that if something is available to buy that it's OK to buy it. But the fatal consequences of such a view are now written in the world's dead and dying reefs, in laterized soils that once supported rainforests before they were cut and burned to make way for cattle ranches to raise the beef for fast-food chains, and so on. Our willingness to accept the benefits of the global economies we build Must be accompanied by taking the responsibility to inform ourselves about what things are safe to buy and what things cause devastation. It is a high price to pay but we must pay it.

If we buy colourful tropical fish without knowing-or without having set up some mechanism that can enable us to know whether the fish we are buying were obtained by cyanide fishing, we are as guilty as the corruptible politician who accepted a bribe to turn his back while it was exported into our hands. Unless we are hopelessly naïve we cannot possibly assume that exotic species like tropical reef fish, or rare and beautiful shells, or exotic hardwoods, or anything you can name made from rare and unusual species, are being harvested sustainably. We should realize that the chances that they are are almost infinitely small.

There is nothing but our own inertia to stop us from uniting to create a mechanism whereby we buy live fish only from suppliers who fish sustainably and who are not destroying their reefs. It may seem extreme that I can seriously be proposing that anyone should start to invest the time and effort to educate themselves as to who or what is a responsible live fish supplier when what we're talking about here is just a couple of fish for the home tank, for heaven's sake. And besides all of us have dozens of other purchases to make and lots "more important" things to get on with. But that's the whole point. If we are willing to live the multinational, borderless, consumer life we now live then we will destroy the world unless we take responsibility for avoiding the products that do serious damage. For what, after all, is at stake when one is buying live fish? Coral reefs are at stake. And if you, who have listened through this argument don't make an effort to solve this problem, who, pray tell, do you believe will? Each of us can make a difference, but only if we are responsible enough to first become informed, and then to act.

There are suppliers starting to provide responsible markets with responsibly caught fish.. For example: a former cyanide fisherman in Nasugba village, in the Philippines, has become a provincial fish examiner and now leads a three thousand member group formed to end destructive fishing practices. He did this because he had first hand experience with the horrors of cyanide fishing, having known fishers who died underwater after swimming through milky clouds of cyanide they had released. He also knew a fisher who died after eating with cyanide contaminated hands, and several children who died after eating fish that had come home in cyanide contaminated bags.

In an effort to point out the problems of cyanide fishing, biologist Carl Safina has written:

"At this point, just stopping cyanide fishing would be a victory. Never mind catch limits. Never mind quota restrictions. An unrestricted hook-and-line fishery-what we consider uncontrolled, unmanaged fishing in the West-would seem a blessing in the Indo-Pacific, compared to what's now happening here."

(c) 2001 Written by Roger Payne


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PeterIMA

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I have posted two documentaries about clorox fishing and cyanide fishing. They definitely do make the aquarium trade look bad. The articles are highly exaggerated. Some of what is stated is factually incorrect.

Peter Rubec
 

WayneSallee

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PeterIMA":14ous5ni said:
Wayne,

[snip]

Now, how about my question concerning whether or not aquarium fish collectors in Hawaii use chlorine bleach?

Peter Rubec

I would not know, but I would not be supprised if some idiots try it at times. I dought it happens with any kind of regularity. All it would take is for some idiot to want to see what it's like, and sneek out by himself and try it.

Wayne Sallee
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clarionreef

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In an effort to point out the problems of cyanide fishing, biologist Carl Safina has written:

"At this point, just stopping cyanide fishing would be a victory. Never mind catch limits. Never mind quota restrictions. An unrestricted hook-and-line fishery-what we consider uncontrolled, unmanaged fishing in the West-would seem a blessing in the Indo-Pacific, compared to what's now happening here."

Wow!
Nice to see a vindication from such a credible thinker.
First stop it...just stop it thru conversion to another catch method [ nets].
Then play with the management formulas, MPAs, catch limits, consumer perception manipulation, ultra complicated certification of layers of daily batches of fishes etc. all you like.
Just like I said;
Steve
 

Kalkbreath

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What Peter and others fail to point out is the existance of an even larger industry fishing with cyanide.The DEAD food fish trade.
Cyanide and Bleach fishing for sea food to feed the locals is done everyday,
What makes seafood fishing with cyanide so much more destructive is that the more poison you fish with ....the better your take.
Live fish trade has quite a different set of requirements.
The target fish must remain alive for days or weeks after exposure.
Both the live seafood trade and the live pet fish trade have been unfairly blamed for the handy work of the dead fish trade from the very beginning.
True, Cyanide fishing for live food fish didn't start until after a market for live fish sprung up.(1972) as America started buying products from Japan and thus making some wealthy enough in Tokyo and Hong Kong to afford expensive live fish to eat.
But Philipinos were hungry long before rich Japanese buisnessmen were willing to pay big bucks for colorfull live grouper, fishing with cyanide to kill seafood to eat localy .......began years before and continues today.
The idea that PI fishermen would use cyanide to get pet fish out of the live coral to sell ............ BUT not to extract food fish to feed their families is silly.
cyanide damage to PI reef prior to 1970 was not from our trade , but from locals learning how easy and cheap it was to extract fish from the live coral.Few fishermen have rods and reels today let alone back then.
Cyanide was something anyone could fish with.
Silly notions like .... "Only pet fish collectors use Bleach" "only aquarium fish hide in coral"has continued even today.
The dead food fish industry is never even mentioned concerning cyanide fishing. Even though its many times bigger then Live fish collection.
Its like current Alternative Energy crowd, reporting on all the different ways we Americans can wean ourselves off of Crude oil.
The past three shows I have watched never even mentioned Nuclear energy at all!
The biggest savior of the atmosphere and warming could be nuclear power ..
and the biggest savior of the reefs in PI would be to end poison food fishing by the locals.
Yet neither seem to come up in discussions unless IM a part of it....
 

PeterIMA

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Kalk, I believe I have mentioned the DEAD fish trade using cyanide for capture on more than one occasion on RDO. I have also cited information from published papers on the subject. You seem to have a short and selective memory.

Peter
 

PeterIMA

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There are suppliers starting to provide responsible markets with responsibly caught fish.. For example: a former cyanide fisherman in Nasugba village, in the Philippines, has become a provincial fish examiner and now leads a three thousand member group formed to end destructive fishing practices. He did this because he had first hand experience with the horrors of cyanide fishing, having known fishers who died underwater after swimming through milky clouds of cyanide they had released. He also knew a fisher who died after eating with cyanide contaminated hands, and several children who died after eating fish that had come home in cyanide contaminated bags.

I believe that the paragraph above is a total fabrication with no basis in fact. Steve, what do you think?
 

clarionreef

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Peter,
Indicator fibs abound;
Like this one....
The local people told us these fish were bound for markets in Hawaii and North America where a single specimen of the more exotic species can fetch prices over 100 US dollars, even as high as $500. The local divers who collect the fish receive, of course, very little of this, usually just a few cents per fish. The big profits are made overseas.
The species we observed were the Lemonpeel and the Flame Angelfish.
This stuff sells like inflating values of drugs confiscated like policemen.


There are suppliers starting to provide responsible markets with responsibly caught fish.. For example: a former cyanide fisherman in Nasugba village, in the Philippines,
{sure , why not?] has become a provincial fish examiner and now leads a three thousand member group[ probably off a zero or two] formed to end destructive fishing practices. He did this because he had first hand experience with the horrors of cyanide fishing, having known fishers who died underwater after swimming through milky clouds of cyanide they had released. He also knew a fisher who died after eating with cyanide contaminated hands, and several children who died after eating fish that had come home in cyanide contaminated bags....[I heard of deaths often from cyanide mishandling in the 80's.]

It sounds like a rough draft for a screenplay. But the exagerrations are standard media hype like the pacu caught in Texas over the weekend portrayed as a...what else...huge, 20 lb. piranha. Or the even greater liscence taken with each MAC quarterly reporting on their successes.
Embellishment and enhancement are tools of the trade and easily trump nuance and precision as reporting tools.
Steve
 

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