Haiti never used Cyanide

[Anonymous]

True, I guess I was blinded by the truth 8O Its a rather new thing around here, huh :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

Marks last post was archiveable....
It was so damning to the group he left IMHO as he had lived it for over a year to earn the right to those direct observations.
I'd like to hear more of Colins straightforward thoughts on the chances for the trade to get right with sustainability....from his recent experiences in Seribu and other places.
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Left field? Where'd that come from :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

from the truth ....the subject matter at hand...
as in Bobs telling of it....and the need for it...
and the paucity of it...
and the appreciation of it...
It was like a bigfoot sighting!
Steve

 

[bobimport]

Steve Send me a check for that plug. :twisted:
Look I did not start the quin trade in Haiti. I think that cyanide use in the fish trade depends on its availably. It is used in various industrial processes like gold production and such. As Haiti lacks any heavy industry or heavy medal production there is not much use for it. Hence it is not readily available to "spill over to fish collection". Even if you suppose that Haiti is third world ( fourth?) If I were to show up with a drum of cyanide and ask to spritz it on the reef even a rich white boy like me would be deported.
The rumors of cyanide in Haiti are repeated by those that have a problem with me ( i can't understand someone not liking me) and want to disparage the product that I sell. As to Quin let me tell you something if a royal grama is hiding in a coral head that coral head is toast. No third world diver will pass up the chance for money, he will use a re rod and dig it out anywhere in the world. So a little quin cut with 151 proof rum will get the fish out without blasting the coral head. Now the Dominicans use a bent bicycle spoke to tickle royals out of their hole. I have tried to change the way of life in Haiti even to the point of not buying much fish anymore just inverts. I know my guy has slowed way down on quin. Now do I make money on quin? No way i have to order it from India fly it in and pay up front. Ship it to Haiti and then the guy tells me "oh take it off the invoice a little at a time"

 

[WayneSallee]

Steve Send me a check for that plug. :twisted:
Look I did not start the quin trade in Haiti. I think that cyanide use in the fish trade depends on its availably. It is used in various industrial processes like gold production and such. As Haiti lacks any heavy industry or heavy medal production there is not much use for it. Hence it is not readily available to "spill over to fish collection". Even if you suppose that Haiti is third world ( fourth?) If I were to show up with a drum of cyanide and ask to spritz it on the reef even a rich white boy like me would be deported.
The rumors of cyanide in Haiti are repeated by those that have a problem with me ( i can't understand someone not liking me) and want to disparage the product that I sell. As to Quin let me tell you something if a royal grama is hiding in a coral head that coral head is toast. No third world diver will pass up the chance for money, he will use a re rod and dig it out anywhere in the world. So a little quin cut with 151 proof rum will get the fish out without blasting the coral head. Now the Dominicans use a bent bicycle spoke to tickle royals out of their hole. I have tried to change the way of life in Haiti even to the point of not buying much fish anymore just inverts. I know my guy has slowed way down on quin. Now do I make money on quin? No way i have to order it from India fly it in and pay up front. Ship it to Haiti and then the guy tells me "oh take it off the invoice a little at a time"

So what's your oppinion on the harm that the quin does to the fish and the environment?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets
[email protected]

 

[bobimport]

Less than a diver with a crowbar or re rod. The divers in Haiti go to the same place in Haiti year after year and collect I have not seen any decrease in production.

 

[Caterham]

If you didnt supply your divers with the poison that they fish with would they change their ways or would they just find another way to get the poison?

 

[bobimport]

Read my post, long before I sold it and long after I am gone they will still be useing something. I forbad acidtone and switched them to rum to cut it.
You fight and fight and sometimes you win small victorys


Bob

 

[clarionreef]

Quin was popularized and given the clean bill of health by public aquariums and scientists.[ not Bob]
They have used it as a matter of fact for decades and use it to compensate for lack of skill in collecting fishes that normal commercial divers already have.
If you collect scientifically once in a while, you do not accumalate the skill set that commercial ...day after day ...collectors do.
Scientists and researchers methods have been copied and employed in commercial use in few places, notably the Keys, Haiti, Costa Rica, Mexico [ before converting to all nets in the year 2000. Mexico is now cleaner then the Florida Keys]... and...and...
the list is short.
Steve

 

[bobimport]

Like I said its a crutch

 

[PeterIMA]

Steve, I assume that the reference to Mark's posting was his posting on another thread concerned with MAC. It might be helpful to cite the thread to help those who don't read them all.

Peter

 

[nanocat]

If you didnt supply your divers with the poison that they fish with would they change their ways or would they just find another way to get the poison?

I think he already answered that? They'd use big crowbars and just bash the coral.

 

[clarionreef]

Peter,
Heres is the missing post from Mark;

Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Philippines
Posted: 11 Sep 2006 21:36 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all,

Once again, I would like to state for the record that I truly believe the concept of MAC is great; and, if implemented properly COULD achieve what we all want; I believe that is simply a sustainable supply of healthy, net caught MO.

Unfortunately this is not happening. Supply of MAC Certified fish is not going up to ANY useful degree, especially for the amount of $ being spent. If MAC Certified fish in Indo and the Philippines were sold at a price that would only return what they cost to produce, they would be more expensive than GOLD.

Money is being wasted in so many ways but the cost of the MAMTI Director and the MAC Director stand out –they ALONE will be paid a total of OVER $1,000,000 over the 5-year lifespan of MAMTI – high wages to be sure but even more appalling because they are both such utter failures at their jobs which makes them gallingly expensive at any price. THEY are directly responsible for the utter failings of MAMTI and TMAT, and should be held accountable.

Several weeks ago, I was handed petitions by the MAC Collectors of Camotes, Batasan and Clarin. ALL three groups were fed up and disgusted at the way they were being treated by MAC/MAMTI. They had tried to send a petition to the MAC Board previously but this had been ‘lost’ in the MAC Manila Office. I promised and did send the petitions to the Chairman of the MAC Board asking that he respond to the fishers and their concerns. He said that he would, but as far as I can tell nothing has happened yet. The Board of MAC is ultimately responsible for the continued and costly failings of MAMTI (& TMAT, etc.) – both financially and morally.

A few more cases to add to the MAC/MAMTI Incompetence Files:

1. MAC/MAMTI have been caught by the Palawan Council For Sustainable Development operating in Palawan, Philippines without the required Strategic Environmental Plan (SEP) Clearance. This is in violation of Section 1 of PCSD Admin Order 6 (SEP Clearance System) stipulating that any undertaking, project or program to be implemented in Palawan shall be covered by the SEP Clearance System. The PCSD has demanded immediate action otherwise they will file an administrative case against MAC. This will be yet another civil law suit against MAC.

2. For those talking about boxes of fish from MAC sources you should note that currently, there are ZERO MAC certified fish coming out of the Philippines and Indonesia. Why is this? This is because the sites that were certified are technically uncertified now as they have not received the required surveillance visit from the certifiers to renew their certification.

3. The cost of annual Reef Check surveys are so expensive that the fishers can’t afford them and MAC/MAMTI can’t afford to pay the certifier to undertake the regular surveillance visits required by the MAC Certification Standards because when the MAMTI project was written the MAMTI partners (MAC, REEF Check, and CCIF) forgot to allocate any money for the ongoing renewal of certifications of the collectors and the collection areas! If you all remember the exchanges I had with Gregor Hodgson of Reef Check on this forum, you will remember how evasive he was about the cost of maintaining the Reef Check component of the MAC Certification process. He neither answered directly how much it would cost, on average, to renew the Reef Check component of MAC Certification, nor did he respond when it was pointed out to him that they forgot to budget the years following up the initial certification. MAC is not alone in its duplicity – it’s other partners in MAMTI – CCIF and Reef Check are directly responsible as well. (I’d like to know for one, what kind of required matching money (or private sector investment) they have raised so far for this project?).

4. My fisher friends in Clarin also tell me that fishers from a new area that MAC is training in Bohol are now poaching and using cyanide in their collection area. These new fisher groups were scheduled to be “certified” sometime this month.

My big questions are

“Where is the MAC Board?” What are they doing to resolve these issues?

Where are the donors?” Why are they allowing their money (our tax money in some cases) to be wasted so blatantly?

Why isn’t the trade angrier than it is? How can we best organize to tackle some of these issues head on?

The trade is supposed to be MAC’s partner in its reform. Anyone here feel like a partner?
_________________
We protect what we love..... Love your mother Earth.

 

[Anonymous]

If you didnt supply your divers with the poison that they fish with would they change their ways or would they just find another way to get the poison?

I think he already answered that? They'd use big crowbars and just bash the coral.

Dont mess up Caterhams Deep See trolling trip.