Question to wholesalers

[sedgro]

As a hobbyist, I have the opportunity from time to time to glance through several lists my retailers receive and pick out any fish I might want. I realize my sample size is limited, but I have two questions for wholesalers:

1) Why are Goldflake angels, Declivis butterflies, Bartlett's anthias, other Christmas/Line Island stuff continually mis-identified as coming from Hawaii? I realize these fish stop there on the way to your tanks, but come on, NONE of these fish occur in Hawaiian waters. Its not like it affects their care, but it is misinformation that is passed on to the retailer and then hobbyist. You all should be the experts.

2) Why do some wholesalers not list scientific names when known? The descriptions I read almost seem deliberately vague - like you are trying to unload some uninteresting fish as something else. Plus, there is no standardization of common names - "orange anthias from Tonga" could just as easily be P. pleurotaenia as P. squamipinnis. I know not all retailers know all scientific names, but there are several wonderful books around in which they could look it up. I also might point out that nearly all e-tailers list scientific names. So why can't you guys?

Just questions for discussion, nothing more. Thanks,

sedgro

 

[PeterIMA]

I agree that importers and wholesalers in the USA should provide common and scientific names (where known). This information is required to be supplied by the importer to the USFWS and US Customs. Generally, the information accompanies the shipment coming from the exporter. US Customs may make a fuss, if they don't receive the list of the number of specimens, their value, and the scientific names.

Peter Rubec

 

[Anonymous]

As a hobbyist, I have the opportunity from time to time to glance through several lists my retailers receive and pick out any fish I might want. I realize my sample size is limited, but I have two questions for wholesalers:

1) Why are Goldflake angels, Declivis butterflies, Bartlett's anthias, other Christmas/Line Island stuff continually mis-identified as coming from Hawaii? I realize these fish stop there on the way to your tanks, but come on, NONE of these fish occur in Hawaiian waters. Its not like it affects their care, but it is misinformation that is passed on to the retailer and then hobbyist. You all should be the experts.

2) Why do some wholesalers not list scientific names when known? The descriptions I read almost seem deliberately vague - like you are trying to unload some uninteresting fish as something else. Plus, there is no standardization of common names - "orange anthias from Tonga" could just as easily be P. pleurotaenia as P. squamipinnis. I know not all retailers know all scientific names, but there are several wonderful books around in which they could look it up. I also might point out that nearly all e-tailers list scientific names. So why can't you guys?

Just questions for discussion, nothing more. Thanks,

sedgro

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


do you also expect everyone who works fro radio shack to know the diff between a resistor and a transistor, and a capacitor?

a fish wholesaler or retailer is merely someone who makes a living buying and selling fish as the commerce product that it is-selling mo fish and KNOWING ABOUT THEM usually do NOT go hand in hand


knowing how to buy and sell them, however-does :idea:

 

[pyrrhus]

Yeah, after all who wants a plain old goniopora when they can have a "Yoo-Hoo Stone"?

 

[clarionreef]

actually I find that scientific knowledge and experience is a handicap when dealing w/ most retailers as they already know all they want to know when they get a price list.
Nothing loses a dealers interest faster then an explanation of the net catching and handling process.
I think the interest in this subject area has declined as dealers used to want to find out more on the phone w/ their rep.
Now its fax and email a lot...and less discussion of care parameters, nutritional requirements and survivability in captivity.
Is it reef safe or not reef safe summarizes 90% of the questions I get on fishes. Then...its how much is it...
I think its because the game plan is;
What can sell this weekend for a 400% mark-up....how cheap can we get it?
And with that...why is more information needed.?
Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Yah, we tried the scientific name route, never heard so many Q's about fish they always buy :lol:

 

[clarionreef]

I think many retailers are becoming what the market wants them to be.
This is the demand world and its fast, "all about the self" and waits for no one.
The dealers evolve to service a carefree, careless, care-less society.
People who care are perhaps too careful, painstaking, thoughtful and slow are left behind.
Burdened by ethics and sandbagged with a conscience; you will be appreciated by some...but maybe not enough to keep the doors open.
This is the sell out process. It occurs slowly, almost imperceptibly and accelerates as justifications present themselves.
This is why the demand side is not the side to effect the changes anymore.
Its hey-day...its pinnacle... was the dolphin safe tuna movement and that example has made people think they could duplicate it with other products.


Steve

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, after all who wants a plain old goniopora when they can have a "Yoo-Hoo Stone"?

But "Gem stone" sounds so cool :lol: Yah gonna get a goni, a montipora, alvy, or a porites......that's all the fun, guessing whats gonna land :lol:

Seriously though, it shouldn't have to be like this. I'm all for getting down to more use of scientific names....I hear yah

 

[Anonymous]

y'all would laugh at the number of FW fish i get in that come in different each time, with the same COMMON NAME, from exporters-you think a latin name will be any easier?

i've seen at least 3 different types of coral platy, lol, from the same exporter, 3 shipments in a row 8O

 

[bookfish]

Hey Vitz, do you really import your platies? I'm just now carrying some blue cobra guppies from Japan in the store and didn't know anyone else got livebearers from abroad. Sorry for the OT post.-Jim

 

[Anonymous]

yes

 

[JennM]

I think it's a good question - and one I'd like the answer to also.

When I'm perusing stock lists, sure I order the bread-and-butter stuff that moves well and is easy to keep, but I'd like to keep a good variety and having the scientific name on the stock list makes it easier for me to look it up in a reference book and decide if it's something suitable for my customers, and my shop. Common names are confusing at best... P. hepatus is called Regal Tang, Blue Tang, Pacific Blue Tang, Hippo Tang... and goodness knows what else... at least if the list says P. hepatus I know what I'm getting... SOMETIMES.

I've had stuff come in really misidentified even with the scientific name on the stock list - I thought I knew what I was getting but got something completely different.

My *biggest* pet peeve in the industry right now is the lame but seductive marketing of corals - by giving them catchy names. I roll my eyes every time somebody boasts about their "Fire & Ice" Zoanthids or their Kryptonite (Montipora?) or some other snazzy name that some seller (most often etailer, IME) has given a garden-variety coral with a nice colour morph. A customer brought me a gift of a few polyps of "Fire & Ice" that cost him a bomb - and while I'm appreciative of the gesture, honestly I don't see what all the fuss is about - they're zoanthids but nothing to write home about - but the cool name makes them more expensive :roll:

Jenn

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to Coral Marketing 101. I believe Steve Tyree is teaching today.

:lol:

Peace,

Chip, proud owner of some Fire & Ice

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to Coral Marketing 101. I believe Steve Tyree is teaching today.

:lol:

Peace,

Chip, proud owner of some Fire & Ice

That's not fair, don't hate the player, hate the game

 

[bookfish]

I believe it's simple market demand that makes these morphs more expensive. -Jim

 

[sdcfish]

Sedgro,

You do make an excellent point about tagging the proper origins to the fish.

In our case, the reason we list Xmas Island Fish as "Hawaii" is because of our accounting system. We have codes for each origin, and we post sales of Hawaiian fish to this code. When we pay for Xmas fish....the payments are also listed to the Hawaiian code.

It's really a simple reason....but I agree that it can be misleading for the hobbyist if the retailer does not know better and just says they are from Hawaii.

I will discuss this with my partner and figure out if we can make the changes.

By the way, on our aquariums where the fish are held, they do say "XMAS".

Best regards

 

[Piero]

I roll my eyes every time somebody boasts about their "Fire & Ice" Zoanthids or their Kryptonite (Montipora?) or some other snazzy name that some seller (most often etailer, IME) has given a garden-variety coral with a nice colour morph. A customer brought me a gift of a few polyps of "Fire & Ice" that cost him a bomb - and while I'm appreciative of the gesture, honestly I don't see what all the fuss is about - they're zoanthids but nothing to write home about - but the cool name makes them more expensive :roll:

Jenn

I agree Jenn. This sort of practice is really dissapointing. Unfortunately there are plenty of gullable, uneducated and impulsive consumers with enough disposable income to drive this absurd mentality...and plenty of irresponsible greedy retailors to oblige them.

A couple of the stores that have contributed significantly to this deplorable practice are:
- Blane Perun of thesea.org coined the rediculous term of "PPE"
- Reefermadness(i think the title is appropriate) never fails to have embarrassing descriptions on all their corals that cause eyes to roll in disgust.

It's such an insult to anyone with even an ounce of consumer common sense, but I'm just guessing that they are probably not catering to the well-educated consumers out there who see through it, but more towards the uneducated and gotta-have-it hype-prone masses.
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[Anonymous]

But what do you care, all reefers are satan according to you Piero

 

[bookfish]

I consider myself an experienced aquarist and reefkeeper. I've been very happy with the pieces I've rcvd from Kris and Christine at Reefermadness.
Yes, the descriptions are a bit silly but they tend to get the species correct and their prices DO include shipping iirc. Please don't discredit people who are actually doing a good job getting people the coral they want at (IMHO) reasonable prices. Please also remember that there exist different markets within the coral market. I wouldn't buy a Jaguar but that doesn't mean they are a poor value for those that would, just a different segment of the overall car market.-Jim

 

[Piero]

yep, there are different markets...that's what i said.
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