Retail Pecking Order

[Anonymous]

You mean making money and drawing a salary to provide for your family isn't successful?

Where did I say that? Where did you say that?
Many of the stores around here are barely able to keep their doors open. Business is down and expenses are up.

That's fine you can ask whatever you want. I thought we were being serious though.

I was being serious. The problem I am having now is that I don't feel comfortable in conversations where I feel I am being told what I am saying even though that is not what I am saying, and I feel that is happening now.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry JP - you know I'm pro-etailer I'm just annoyed at the limited edition mentality displayed by so many these days.


I think that brings us back to Piero's point. Can/does the typical retailer get access to these items anymore? Now, for some of this, I know they do. I bet half the LFS in Los Angeles have some acanthastrea in their tanks for sale right now. I also bet most of'em are labelled "Brain Coral, assorted" and not saddled with a nom de plume like "Limited Edition War and Peace Acan". The only difference between the two is the one sporting the ridiculous name will fetch many times the price of the other.

I can't stand it either but unfortunately it doesn't look like it will change anytime soon.

I once has a purple acanthastrea for MONTHS. All I was asking for it was what I needed, something like $40 for it. Wasn't sold to me as anything special so I didn't pay anything special and it was huge. Almost softball size. When I changed my site, I put it back up for $105 and slapped a name on it. Sold the very next day.

I recently had an sps that had the same color scheme as what is now dubbed "pokerstar" (wtf do these people come up with the names). The only way people could identify with it was by saying it looked like a pokerstar. Light blue base with purple and bright lime green polyps just drew a blank on everyone.

I notice wholesalers are getting in on it too lately.

the easiest way for a retailer to sell anything is to place it in a tank and mark it 'not for sale'

 

[Anonymous]

Where did I say that? Where did you say that?
Many of the stores around here are barely able to keep their doors open. Business is down and expenses are up.

Where did I say that one dollar in the black means your successful? You asked me a question, I asked you a question.

I was being serious. The problem I am having now is that I don't feel comfortable in conversations where I feel I am being told what I am saying even though that is not what I am saying, and I feel that is happening now.

Ok I am sorry, I didn't see how a question like that could be serious. I'm sitting here talking about how it would be cost effective for me to have an employee drive 6.5 hours one way to be able to hit half a dozen different wholesalers, see and pick out healthy stuff, and have it back to me within hours of being bagged vs days, through one set of hands vs dozens, etc etc. And then you come and ask why don't I spend the money to fly an employee to LA to pick up my fish every week. It doesn't provide me anything over the way it works now other than someone I know getting to look at my livestock before I do and costs considerably more. The stuff still gets here more than a day after being bagged. It still get rough handled. It still gets exosed to temperature extremes. It still goes through flight delays. Blah blah blah. So yeah, I'm sorry, I thought the answer to that question would have been fairly obvious so when it was asked I didn't think it was serious. Perhaps someday you could forgive me.

I think with the tangents I've been on in the thread so far it's pretty obvious I'm light hearted at least with this topic. (silly me, look what happened last time I thought something was obvious ) So I don't understand where this "I don't feel comfortable talking when someone is telling me what I said" stuff is coming from.

I said there had to be hundreds of successful stores in CA. You asked me what I considered successful. I said if they make money and can draw a salary, their successful. You then said "so if they are one dollar in the black they're successful?" And I said "so you saying if they make money and draw a salary that can provide for their family they're not successful?" I don't see the difference of what you did to what I did. Whatever it is you think I am guilty of, you are just as guilty. In all seriousness, where did that comment come from? I just don't see what made you take such great offense.

Austin, lol, I know how you feel. I have learned long ago though that even though Thanksgiving has passed and Christmas is still a decent amount of time away it's a very sketchy time to order. Mail, flowers and bodies bump live fish unless you do one of the expensive priority services. So when it's the time of year that the volume of those things can be expected to be up I expect long delays.

I no longer allow my cargo to travel through Pittsburgh. It's the freaking Bermuda triangle of cargo. The cargo facility is miles away from the flight line and it seems losing something along the way is more than just a common occurence. Every place I order from I plead with them not to book flights through there.

Let us know what name you end up going with and how long it now takes to get sold. That's not for sale idea is also a winner.

 

[Anonymous]

Better yet. Let me put it this way...

If you're making money and drawing a salary, you're successful.

So making a dollar in the black is successful?

The problem I am having now is that I don't feel comfortable in conversations where I feel I am being told what I am saying even though that is not what I am saying, and I feel that is happening now.

....ditto.....

 

[Anonymous]

You are still telling me what I think and you misunderstand what made the conversation uncomfortable for me. I am sorry that by expressing my thoughts on the matter I made you uncomfortable. But all that is really unimportant in the long run -

My 'making one dollar' question was trying to understand how much success really meant success for you - something I still don't actually know. I phrased it the way I did because there are many LFS in CA that are barely getting by and I was trying to shed light on the idea that coming up with money to hire 'good' help, or any help for that matter, is simply not always that easy.

 

[Anonymous]

If you make enough money that you draw a salary you can provide for your family with, I consider you successful.

Now perhaps you can return the favor and answer mine. I'll repeat myself, again, just so no one has to scroll back. What would spending more than $1000 to fly someone to LA to pick out my livestock and then ship them back to me give me other than having someone I know look at my livestock?

 

[Anonymous]

Now perhaps you can return the favor and answer mine. I'll repeat myself, again, just so no one has to scroll back. What would spending more than $1000 to fly someone to LA to pick out my livestock and then ship them back to me give me other than having someone I know look at my livestock?

Sorry, I thought you were being rhetorical.

Nothing. I don't think I ever tried to say it was more - although I don't think that it is a trivial notion.

 

[Anonymous]

If you make enough money that you draw a salary you can provide for your family with, I consider you successful.

Now perhaps you can return the favor and answer mine. I'll repeat myself, again, just so no one has to scroll back. What would spending more than $1000 to fly someone to LA to pick out my livestock and then ship them back to me give me other than having someone I know look at my livestock?

Nuff said I guess.

 

[Anonymous]

Um, you might want to quote all of it:

Sorry, I thought you were being rhetorical.

Nothing. I don't think I ever tried to say it was more - although I don't think that it is a trivial notion.

:mrgreen:

 

[Anonymous]

I quoted everything that was posted when I made my post. You must have edited.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep!

I hit submit by accident before I typed my reply.

 

[Yodastoe]

That link to RC is talking about micros. There are two clear channels for obtaining micros. One is the legally collected ones from Tonga that are now starting to come thru some choice wholesalers on the WC. However, 6 - 8 months ago this was a seldom occurrence. If you want these you have to pay for them and they all pretty much look the same.

Before that happened and still happening today are the illegal smuggling of micros and acans into the US from restricted areas. These you still will have to pay but overall not as much. They also come in alot of different unique colors from this region in comparison to the Tonga ones.

So talking about retail pecking order of these items in particular is a little hard because alot of these items on some websites are not on the wholesalers lists.

 

[dizzy]

So talking about retail pecking order of these items in particular is a little hard because alot of these items on some websites are not on the wholesalers lists.

That's what I was thinking. The stuff that comes through legally is sort of boring by comparison. Leave it to the good old internet to create a thriving market for illegally harvested items. F&W needs to get off their arse and go after these blatant Lacey Act violations. I hope they are monitoring these websites and go after those who buy as well as those who sell. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Mitch

 

[Anonymous]

That link to RC is talking about micros. There are two clear channels for obtaining micros. One is the legally collected ones from Tonga that are now starting to come thru some choice wholesalers on the WC. However, 6 - 8 months ago this was a seldom occurrence. If you want these you have to pay for them and they all pretty much look the same.

Before that happened and still happening today are the illegal smuggling of micros and acans into the US from restricted areas. These you still will have to pay but overall not as much. They also come in alot of different unique colors from this region in comparison to the Tonga ones.

So talking about retail pecking order of these items in particular is a little hard because alot of these items on some websites are not on the wholesalers lists.

Micros are also coming from SI legally. They're also not just smuggled into the US, but into Indo and such and "CITES washed" and sent onto the states with papers. They typically don't hit the list, as it's only a few, and they know where they're going before they even land I'm sure if you all sutffed the right pockets, you too could get in on the plunder :lol:

 

[Piero]

how do we know.....whether a micro or an acan is illegal? How can we shut down those retailors that are selling illegally imported pieces?

One of the most active micro and acan dealers is www.jendub.com. Do you think they would admit or disclose their sources in order to prove that they are dealing with legal stock?
_________________
Stewing Forum

 

[Anonymous]

Jen and Chris do not sell smuggled coral. I won't develge their source, but I can say they're coming in legally. They do pay FAR more then you'd imagine.

If your not buying them, your not supporting them, your all ready Black listing tem by defacto

You can't tell what is legal and what is smuggled, that's the problem. It's not like fish where you could kill it and use th olith (spelling?) to determin where it was from (and I think thats only with FW fish, but Peter could correct me on that )

 

[Yodastoe]

You can't tell what is legal and what is smuggled, that's the problem.

Isn't it all about what region the micro was collected from?

So even if was imported into the U.S. legally with papers. If it was collected from a restricted area it is still illegal. Some of these micros are obtained "legally". However, the origin from which they were plucked was indeed illegal. There are always ways around it.

The VAST numbers of smuggled corals do not go thru wholesalers. Too much attention and risk there. They go direct to the buyers from overseas. This is also why you don't see big name online vendors selling "illegal" micros. Even if they wanted to and had the cash (never mind morally) they would attract too much attention.

 

[Anonymous]

You can't tell what is legal and what is smuggled, that's the problem.

Isn't it all about what region the micro was collected from?

So even if was imported into the U.S. legally with papers. If it was collected from a restricted area it is still illegal. Some of these micros are obtained "legally". However, the origin from which they were plucked was indeed illegal. There are always ways around it.

The VAST numbers of smuggled corals do not go thru wholesalers. Too much attention and risk there. They go direct to the buyers from overseas. This is also why you don't see big name online vendors selling "illegal" micros. Even if they wanted to and had the cash (never mind morally) they would attract too much attention.

And how do you tell what region it REALLY came from?

Your right, most wholesalers won't deal with smuggled corals, that's why I told you about CITES washed corals that they do deal in. To them, and to US F&W S, they're not illegal. In the long run, they're wrong, but at the port of entry, the papers say it all. You have the papers, they clear the shipment. US F&W S really ins't set up to investigate what other countries are doing, ie. smuggling from one country, to another.

I do want to remind you that many major wholesalers have sold illegal leopard sharks and clarion angels, and seferal have been caught. Many of the major online dealers you speak of, bought those very illegal clarions. Attracting attention seems not to be a concern for some.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd like to let it be known that I do NOT support circumventing CITES, smuggling, or any other illegal activity. CITES was put in place to help protect, I'm all for that.

 

[Yodastoe]

And how do you tell what region it REALLY came from?

No argument there. I was just pointing out that some of these "legal" obtained corals are indeed illegal because of some of the reasons you pointed out above.

I do want to remind you that many major wholesalers have sold illegal leopard sharks and clarion angels, and seferal have been caught. Many of the major online dealers you speak of, bought those very illegal clarions. Attracting attention seems not to be a concern for some.

Very true, there are some that don't care. However, I would assume most of it was ignorance. They didn't know it was illegal. Sometimes when people deal with wholesalers they assume all is okay and heck customers ask for it so they jump on it (not knowing or thinking). There are people that know what they are doing when it comes to that and some that do not (I myself fall into this category with somethings - who doesn't).

Anyway, didn't mean to open up a can here. Just wanted to comment on the thread that the pecking order really doesn't come into play with micros because of some of the things mentioned above. The vast majority of micros does not come thru wholesalers etc.

I would argue pecking order in general comes down to money and loyalty (which really means money also).